/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2015-02-02 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Feb 02 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  30. # [01:31] <GPHemsley> Just a reminder to annevk and others: Please use spaces in wiki page titles. CamelCase is unnecessary and makes things harder to search for.
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  119. # [09:01] <annevk> http://xkcd.com/1481/ :-)
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  122. # [09:12] <annevk> Whoa, Googlebot only just added support for TLSv12
  123. # [09:13] <annevk> Would have been nice if Adam Langley had pointed that out while telling everyone only TLSv12 is cryptographically secure
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  129. # [09:25] <dbz> Hello
  130. # [09:26] <dbz> I'm having trouble with my canvas element. I want it to be full screen, and when I set height/width to 100%, then the things the canvas draws also get bigger
  131. # [09:27] <dbz> To be specific, I'm trying to turn this game I made into a phonegap app: http://dbz.github.io/BubbleChain/
  132. # [09:27] <dbz> And when I make the canvas height/width 100%, then the balls get huge and don't act like the walls are the walls
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  224. # [13:46] <ondras_> so, <my-element> and <div is=my-element> are mutually exclusive, right? My custom element is unable to support both invocations?
  225. # [13:47] <annevk> ondras_: not sure what you mean
  226. # [13:47] <ondras_> okay
  227. # [13:48] <ondras_> so, if I do registerElement(, {extends:...})
  228. # [13:48] <ondras_> I need to use @is
  229. # [13:48] <ondras_> and the <my-element> version does not work
  230. # [13:48] <ondras_> if I omit "extends", it goes the other way around
  231. # [13:48] <ondras_> at least in chrome canary.
  232. # [13:49] <annevk> sounds about right
  233. # [13:49] <ondras_> "My custom element is unable to support both invocations?"
  234. # [13:49] <ondras_> does this question make sense now?
  235. # [13:49] <annevk> I don't think we should do is="", we should make MyElement extends HTMLDivElement work
  236. # [13:49] <annevk> ondras_: yeah I guess, I don't really see it as invocations
  237. # [13:50] <ondras_> okay, blame my poor english skills then
  238. # [13:50] <ondras_> my point is
  239. # [13:50] <ondras_> what shall I do?
  240. # [13:50] <ondras_> as an author of a custom element
  241. # [13:50] <ondras_> shall I use "extends" or not?
  242. # [13:51] <annevk> ondras_: not sure, neither Apple nor Mozilla is interested in supporting the current prototype-based custom elements
  243. # [13:51] <ondras_> ah
  244. # [13:51] <ondras_> dammit :)
  245. # [13:52] <ondras_> looks like the hype wave already took off; this will probably be a hard landing for many
  246. # [13:53] <annevk> ondras_: I wrote some blog posts and there's also https://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Custom_Elements
  247. # [13:53] <annevk> ondras_: and over a hundred emails on public-webapps
  248. # [13:55] <ondras_> annevk: right. the amount on public-webapps is staggering. I follow that group but I am reluctant to read that much mail .)
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  250. # [13:55] <ondras_> annevk: anyway, thanks for the info about status quo
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  307. # [16:27] <ondras_> is there any js api to access and modify styling for ::before and ::after pseudo-elements?
  308. # [16:28] <zcorpan> ondras_: not really, but you can add a rule to a stylesheet to style them
  309. # [16:29] <zcorpan> ondras_: what are you trying to do?
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  311. # [16:31] <ondras_> zcorpan: change the "color" css property of a ::before element :/
  312. # [16:31] <ondras_> but the color is js-generated, unfortunately
  313. # [16:32] <ondras_> so I am out of options, apparently
  314. # [16:32] <ondras_> scoped stylesheets are no longer supported, iirc?
  315. # [16:32] <zcorpan> i mean you can add a rule to a stylesheet with JS
  316. # [16:32] <zcorpan> or modify an existing rule
  317. # [16:33] <ondras_> right
  318. # [16:33] <ondras_> well say I have ten <div>s and I want to modify the ::before of one particular div
  319. # [16:34] <ondras_> those are not divs, those are my custom elements
  320. # [16:34] <ondras_> I have no control about their count, IDs and so on
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  324. # [16:35] <annevk> ondras_: there's a proposal to expose them I think, but not in current browsers
  325. # [16:35] <annevk> ondras_: but then custom elements are not cross browser either :-)
  326. # [16:35] <ondras_> well, obviously. but the polymer's platform.js works quite okay
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  337. # [16:45] <annevk> Domenic: so if custom-button { @extends button } can be done automatically, what is left?
  338. # [16:45] <annevk> Domenic: basically replacing the localName checks with something that looks like instanceof but is really ignoreRealmInstanceOf
  339. # [16:46] <annevk> Domenic: right?
  340. # [16:46] <Domenic> annevk: focus, a11y, a few other things
  341. # [16:46] <annevk> Domenic: the only fallback you miss at that point is non-script fallback
  342. # [16:46] <annevk> Domenic: why would that be gone?
  343. # [16:46] <Domenic> annevk: getting a button's CSS doesn't give you its focus behavior...
  344. # [16:46] <annevk> Domenic: yes, but if it's a proper subclass you should get that
  345. # [16:47] <Domenic> well, maybe, but you'd have to modify the focus spec for that
  346. # [16:47] <annevk> Domenic: and if you update the localName checks elsewhere with ignoreRealmInstanceOf
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  348. # [16:47] <Domenic> better to add an extensible focus mechanism so that you don't have to subclass a focusable element to get focus behavior
  349. # [16:47] <annevk> Domenic: is there anything in the focus spec that would require something else from modifying a localName check?
  350. # [16:47] <annevk> Domenic: that seems separate
  351. # [16:48] <Domenic> it would be better if focus spec was like https://docs.google.com/document/d/1k93Ez6yNSyWQDtGjdJJqTBPmljk9l2WS3JTe5OHHB50/edit# so that it checked el.isTabStop()
  352. # [16:48] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  353. # [16:48] <Domenic> then isTabStop() behavior is inherited if you inherit from the HTMLButtonElement prototype
  354. # [16:48] <Domenic> But also could be configured separately
  355. # [16:48] <annevk> I don't disagree with any of this
  356. # [16:48] <Domenic> heh ok
  357. # [16:48] <annevk> However, I'm not sure why that has to be done first
  358. # [16:49] <Domenic> i guess the idea is that if you actually make all these things extensible then you don't need any local name *or* ignoreRealmInstanceOf checks
  359. # [16:49] <Domenic> You use inherited protocols for all of them, instead of switch statements
  360. # [16:49] <Domenic> Polymorphism etc. etc.
  361. # [16:49] <annevk> Getting from <input is=x-x> to <x-x> was two things I thought. Style and localName checks.
  362. # [16:49] <annevk> Okay, so that would be an alternative way to get there
  363. # [16:50] <annevk> But that seems more invasive on the short term
  364. # [16:50] <Domenic> agreed
  365. # [16:50] <Domenic> trying to think if there was anything more. which i guess was your original question.
  366. # [16:50] <annevk> :-)
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  369. # [16:51] <Domenic> i think for a sufficiently expansive definition of "localname checks" (which might be broader than the amount of times implementations check localNames) that is correct
  370. # [16:51] <Domenic> E.g. I don't think implementations have a switch(localName) to assign accessibility behavior
  371. # [16:52] <Domenic> and specs say "<button> behaves like this"
  372. # [16:52] <Domenic> you'd have to modify it to say "HTMLButtonElement and any inheritors behave like this"
  373. # [16:53] <Domenic> the switch(localName)s, in specs at least, appear in only a few cross-cutting places, like IIRC focus
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  375. # [16:56] <annevk> One other problem with this is <input> btw. Ideally you'd subclass one of the types, not <input> in general. But I guess there's not really a way around that.
  376. # [16:56] <annevk> Even better would be <input type=my-custom> maybe?
  377. # [16:57] <annevk> Has the same graceful degradation
  378. # [16:57] <annevk> Yeah, for specifications we want a phrase for "button-and-subclasses elements"
  379. # [16:59] <Domenic> hmmmm I like this <input type="my-custom"> idea...
  380. # [16:59] <Domenic> Seems hard to make work
  381. # [16:59] <Domenic> But it's true that type="" is kind of the is="" of 1999
  382. # [17:00] <Domenic> On the other hand we only have one HTMLInputElement constructor/prototype.
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  389. # [17:23] <annevk> Domenic: yeah, HTML's design and JavaScript's object model are not a great match
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  392. # [17:28] <hemanth> > But it's true that type="" is kind of the is="" of 1999 <- history repeats ?
  393. # [17:28] <annevk> Domenic: e.g. even if you offered some kind of solution specific to <input>, you still couldn't subclass <input type=password>
  394. # [17:29] <annevk> Domenic: it'll always be a little bit weird
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  441. # [19:55] * roc_ is now known as roc
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  493. # [22:10] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  494. # [22:11] * Quits: caitp- (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  495. # [22:13] * Quits: encryptd_fractal (~encryptd_@24-177-122-160.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
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  500. # [22:23] <dglazkov> https://briankardell.wordpress.com/2015/01/14/friendly-fire-the-fog-of-dom/ is great
  501. # [22:29] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM84948c4c6f80.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
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  517. # [23:12] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
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  531. # [23:38] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@121-99-132-212.bng1.tvc.orcon.net.nz) (Remote host closed the connection)
  532. # [23:38] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@80.99.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
  533. # [23:42] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  534. # [23:51] * Quits: encryptd_fractal (~encryptd_@24-177-122-160.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  535. # [23:51] * Joins: encryptd_fractal (~encryptd_@24-177-122-160.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
  536. # [23:56] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@c-71-198-213-78.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: othermaciej)
  537. # [23:57] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@c-71-198-213-78.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  538. # Session Close: Tue Feb 03 00:00:00 2015

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