/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2015-04-28 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Apr 28 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  15. # [00:41] <trevnorris> Domenic: in es7 will it be possible to set static class properties that aren't methods or getters/setters?
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  18. # [00:43] <caitp> jeffmo has a stage 0 proposal (is it still stage 0?), and typescript and others follow in those footsteps
  19. # [00:44] <caitp> it's anyones guess :>
  20. # [00:45] <caitp> but i guess, hopefully
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  34. # [01:08] <aklein> rniwa: ping?
  35. # [01:08] <rniwa> aklein: pong
  36. # [01:08] <rniwa> ark: thanks for all the bugs!
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  39. # [01:09] <aklein> rniwa: just a quick clarification about your response re: timing and shadow dom distribution
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  42. # [01:10] <aklein> rniwa: when you say timing is "deferred", you mean that there's no need for the spec to explain timing?
  43. # [01:10] <aklein> the explanation is "the distribution happens when you call distribute()"?
  44. # [01:11] <aklein> rniwa: in other news, re: static data properties, what caitp said above: it's part of jeffmo's proposal at https://gist.github.com/jeffmo/054df782c05639da2adb
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  48. # [01:15] <rniwa> aklein: right.
  49. # [01:16] <rniwa> aklein: the idea is to let other APIs define the timing.
  50. # [01:16] <aklein> rniwa: got it, you can understand that the term "deferred" is a bit overloaded in this context
  51. # [01:16] <rniwa> aklein: instead of baking it into the distribution API.
  52. # [01:16] <rniwa> aklein: yeah i know :(
  53. # [01:17] <rniwa> aklein: our industry is horrible at overloading words with many meanings.
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  117. # [04:53] <MikeSmith> https://twitter.com/maxogden/status/592883522932756481
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  156. # [07:31] <hayato> annevk: Sure. I think we can get benefits from these terms. >>> for parent/child across boundaries I suggest we introduce "composed parent/child", "deep parent/child",
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  243. # [11:32] <MikeSmith> http://www.webkit.org/status.html seems to have magically appeared in the last day or so
  244. # [11:32] <MikeSmith> or maybe I just missed the news
  245. # [11:32] * MikeSmith checks webkit-dev
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  270. # [13:21] <hsivonen_> the ambigous ampersand stuff would be easier to review if Hixie had written the spec as a genuine state machine instead of having the character reference part of the spec unconsume input
  271. # [13:21] * hsivonen_ is now known as hsivonen
  272. # [13:22] <hsivonen> need to mentally page in stuff
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  291. # [14:03] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: unfortunately it's also been so long since I first wrote that patch that I need to go back and retrace what I was thinking myself and compare it to the spec
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  314. # [15:35] <wanderview> Domenic: it appears streams API is on http://www.webkit.org/status.html
  315. # [15:39] <Domenic> wanderview: indeed :D
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  317. # [15:40] <wanderview> Domenic: I guess if they don't have fetch or serviceworkers, then it must just be a js-only thing to start
  318. # [15:40] <Domenic> wanderview: yeah, that's what the code looks like; new ReadableStream() is the focus.
  319. # [15:41] <Domenic> wanderview: I am implementing that this week actually... in Munich working with the V8 team to make self-hosting in Blink better.
  320. # [15:41] <wanderview> Domenic: cool!
  321. # [15:42] <wanderview> webkit having removed SharedWorker seems to not bode well for ServiceWorkers there
  322. # [15:42] <Domenic> Yeah... their reasoning especially...
  323. # [15:42] <Domenic> Still I can't imagine they're going to be OK missing out on the service worker revolution.
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  325. # [15:43] <Domenic> Array.prototype.includes is also nice haha, got my feature
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  327. # [15:44] <wanderview> implementing Force Click... wonder how that plays with pointer events, etc
  328. # [15:44] <Domenic> heh yeah... that's one of those apple "spring new prefixed features on everyone!" fun times
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  331. # [15:48] <wanderview> Domenic: btw, I hope to do some kind of system test for async read vs sync read this week... I will probably just build on top of released chrome fetch body stream... I'll make a pure js transform stream that does some parsing... it will then expose either does the Promise-for-every-read or a ready-promise-with-sync-read... then measure differences
  332. # [15:48] <wanderview> I don't feel I have time to prototype something in the gecko platform in time
  333. # [15:48] <Domenic> wanderview: awesome, will be good to have. We're looking into optimizing our promise impl so that this is a non-issue... the overhead is hurting lots of APIs that want to use promises, e.g. some CSS custom layout stuff.
  334. # [15:49] <wanderview> Domenic: do those other APIs encourage relatively tight async loops? that seems somewhat unique to Streams as far as I know
  335. # [15:50] <Domenic> wanderview: yeah, they deal with many promises per frame
  336. # [15:50] <wanderview> ah, its a Promise thing for animations or something? not familiar with that API
  337. # [15:51] <Domenic> yeah it's new, Houdini stuff if you're familiar with that term
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  340. # [15:51] <wanderview> oh, the display worker or whatever?
  341. # [15:51] <Domenic> The idea is to allow customization of layout by JS code, but they want to make all access to layout properties async
  342. # [15:51] <wanderview> Domenic: I updated this last week with new data, btw: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rl6mbD2z1x1bgJLD6y9KJLYWjppB7BujfiWvUMjYTVs/edit?usp=sharing
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  344. # [15:51] <wanderview> after we removed the setTimeout from benchmark.js
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  350. # [16:01] <Domenic> Still weirded out by Bluebird's poor performance
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  352. # [16:01] <Domenic> Should be using MutationObserver
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  354. # [16:02] <wanderview> Domenic: what do you mean by poor performance there? bluebird is better than Chrome and Firefox native promises
  355. # [16:02] <wanderview> are you looking at the "new data" tab?
  356. # [16:02] <Domenic> Nope!
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  359. # [16:03] <Domenic> the degradation is still surprising to me though
  360. # [16:03] <Domenic> microtask hits should in theory be one-time
  361. # [16:03] <Domenic> then you get into a fast loop
  362. # [16:04] <wanderview> Domenic: I think I'm convinced its more GC costs now
  363. # [16:04] <wanderview> but I haven't profiled
  364. # [16:04] <Domenic> yeah maybe, although my recent experiments made it seem like chrome wasn't GCing at all while the loop was ongoing
  365. # [16:05] <wanderview> the slowdown could be at the end of the loop, but would still reduce overall ops/sec measurements
  366. # [16:05] <wanderview> and in an "infinite" loop, it would have to GC at some point
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  368. # [16:05] <wanderview> I guess that would be on I/O
  369. # [16:07] <smaug____> wanderview: you don't have results for nightly/desktop ?
  370. # [16:07] <smaug____> (though, I guess nightly has those few regressions atm)
  371. # [16:07] <wanderview> smaug____: I didn't measure nightly, but I could... things are worse there, though, because of the async stacks
  372. # [16:08] <smaug____> right
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  480. # [19:20] <wanderview> jsbell: do you follow your github/critic email? you do you want me to paste the new review links to you here or in a separate email?
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  485. # [19:24] <jsbell> wanderview: I have them all, just need to find time to get to them :(
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  489. # [19:32] <trevnorris> Domenic: strange thing. using "this.constructor" in a class constructor makes V8 barf on performance: https://gist.github.com/trevnorris/0b7b208e420a4d8f7fc2
  490. # [19:32] <trevnorris> (done using latest 4.4 release)
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  492. # [19:34] <wanderview> jsbell: cool... didn't want to spam you here if you checked that mail (seems like a lot of people mute github mail)... no rush on the review, just didn't want them to get lost
  493. # [19:35] <wanderview> thanks
  494. # [19:35] * wilsonpage is now known as wilsonpage-away
  495. # [19:35] <wanderview> and I have two more PRs to write
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  526. # [20:31] <gsnedders> jgraham: https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/4798 plz
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  537. # [20:45] <wanderview> jsbell: does blink still need the MessageChannel thing for the SW tests? or do you support the Client postMessage() now?
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  591. # [22:26] <jsbell> wanderview: sorry, was afk. We support postMessage now, not sure if it where the message is delivered is in sync w/ the latest spec though...
  592. # [22:27] <wanderview> jsbell: the comment in the code indicates its actually a problem with MessageEvent.source not being set when doing ServiceWorker.postMessage()
  593. # [22:27] <jsbell> that too...
  594. # [22:27] <wanderview> jsbell: I tried to make it favor MessageChannel for now, but fallback to ServiceWorker.postMessage()... just let me know in the review if thats not needed
  595. # [22:27] <jsbell> wanderview: noted
  596. # [22:28] <wanderview> thanks!
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  599. # [22:33] <wanderview> hmm... or the MessageChannel code I was just looking at doesn't even exist in wpt upstream :-\
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  608. # [22:42] <wanderview> oh... its in the testharness.js submodule... oops
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  625. # [23:21] <Ms2ger> "An extensive test suite for this specification <http://w3c-test.org/dom/> is available"
  626. # [23:22] * Ms2ger cackles maniacally
  627. # [23:26] <jgraham> Where does it say that?
  628. # [23:27] <jgraham> And can we make it instead say "a somewhat lacking testsuite, that you should certainly contribute to, covers several of the features in this specification"
  629. # [23:27] <jgraham> gsnedders: Review done
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  631. # [23:31] <Ms2ger> tr/dom/
  632. # [23:31] <Ms2ger> Quoted by ArtB
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  640. # [23:38] <gsnedders> jgraham: we're caring about performance of rarely run bits of test harness code now?
  641. # [23:40] <jgraham> gsnedders: Well really I care about removing one easy-to-understand line and replacing it with regexps + an implementation of UTF16 decoding
  642. # [23:40] <jgraham> But I also think it will be slower :p
  643. # [23:40] <gsnedders> jgraham: I'm just as worried about it also converting things like \xff and \0
  644. # [23:41] <jgraham> Don't we control the data format here?
  645. # [23:41] <gsnedders> yeah, I know
  646. # [23:42] <gsnedders> I'd just rather follow the shared definition of the format instead of not
  647. # [23:43] <jgraham> Well whatever, I guess, but I think that implementing that ourselves when there's a library that does basically the right thing is crazy
  648. # [23:44] <gsnedders> ohhhh
  649. # [23:44] <gsnedders> now I rememeber reading the docs
  650. # [23:44] <gsnedders> "Decodes from Latin-1 source code. Beware that Python source code actually uses UTF-8 by default."
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  652. # [23:44] <gsnedders> jgraham: that's why we can't
  653. # [23:45] <jgraham> Well comment then
  654. # [23:46] <gsnedders> that would be a good idea given I'd entirely forgotten :P
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  662. # Session Close: Wed Apr 29 00:00:00 2015

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