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- # Session Start: Mon May 04 00:00:00 2015
- # Session Ident: #whatwg
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- # [08:43] <annevk_> TabAtkins: for Document there's this note in the source '"Document" isn't properly defining itself, and the force switch isn't working.'
- # [08:43] * annevk_ is now known as annevk
- # [08:43] <annevk> TabAtkins: is there a bug on file for that in Bikeshed?
- # [08:43] <annevk> TabAtkins: also, I noticed addEventListener also links to the HTML specification...
- # [08:44] <annevk> TabAtkins: it seems we should blacklist some terms for HTML
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- # [09:00] <annevk> TabAtkins: filed https://github.com/tabatkins/bikeshed/issues/403
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- # [10:27] <Ms2ger> annevk, your latest DOM commit isn't necessary
- # [10:27] <Ms2ger> https://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#concept-element-attributes-get-by-name already lowercases
- # [10:33] <rcombs> How do I patch KDE2 under FreeBSD?
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- # [10:40] <Domenic> Ms2ger: it is necessary; otherwise setAttribute("ALIGN", "left") + getAttribute("align") doesn't work
- # [10:40] <Ms2ger> Domenic, no, it isn't
- # [10:41] <Ms2ger> Wait
- # [10:41] <Ms2ger> Oh, hmm
- # [10:41] <Ms2ger> Okay, it's half necessary :)
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- # [10:41] <Domenic> If it helps, I have an implementation of the 8-hours-ago spec that fails related web-platform-tests :)
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- # [10:42] <Ms2ger> We'll lowercase twice now, so that kinda sucks
- # [10:43] <Domenic> How are case-insensitive maps normally done? I would think you'd need to lowercase on both set and get
- # [10:44] <Domenic> I guess you could do case-insensitive comparison on get
- # [10:44] <Domenic> not sure if that's implementable any faster
- # [10:48] <annevk> Ms2ger: I agree it's not great
- # [10:49] <annevk> Ms2ger: but I couldn't see a better abstraction immediately
- # [10:49] <annevk> Ms2ger: and I figured it would be better to fix this bug and refactor later
- # [10:49] <Ms2ger> Yeah, makes sense
- # [10:51] <annevk> Domenic: normally you want a canonical form so you can store atoms internally
- # [10:55] <annevk> Anyone have a good logo for the Storage Standard?
- # [10:57] <Domenic> boxes ... something windows 95ey...
- # [10:57] <Domenic> database cylinders...
- # [10:58] <Domenic> database cyclinders are popular https://www.google.de/search?q=storage+icon
- # [10:59] <annevk> Heh, or a cloud I guess
- # [10:59] <Domenic> gotta save that for the cloud standard
- # [10:59] <Domenic> floppy disk icon
- # [10:59] <annevk> Fair, I'm game with cyliners, I wonder if zcorpan has some cycles to whip up some SVG
- # [11:00] <annevk> Floppy disk would also be great
- # [11:00] <Domenic> zcorpan usually is the best at this
- # [11:00] <Domenic> i like floppy disk a lot too now
- # [11:01] * annevk finds http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Floppy_icon.svg in the public domain
- # [11:01] <annevk> Adopting the original one with less detail in some way might be good, maybe I'll take a stab once I have done some actual work
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- # [11:02] <Domenic> always a balance with these things between making the pretties and doing real work
- # [11:02] <Domenic> i still want to spruce up the mobile stylesheets for the specs and add some kind of floating TOC sidebar for the desktop ones
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- # [15:49] <annevk> MikeSmith: https://twitter.com/azu_re/status/595212022314217472 Translate gives "Of the of" as translation for the first couple of symbols, is there anything more to it?
- # [15:50] <wanderview> Domenic: so I spoke with someone at a node meetup last week who is using streams to pass js objects and is using multiple readers from the same stream
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- # [15:50] <wanderview> Domenic: this seems somewhat reasonable to me... what do you think?
- # [15:51] <annevk> tobie: [[ENCODING]] is also a bit weird, listing what the W3C considers to be the editors
- # [15:51] <annevk> tobie: perhaps we should just support duplicate metadata for certain entries?
- # [15:51] <Domenic> wanderview: seems like a good case for a tee or two
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- # [15:52] <Domenic> wanderview: or just a single reader that calls multiple functions
- # [15:52] <wanderview> Domenic: the problem with tee is that you now have multiple readers consuming the same object... not the same as multiple readers from the same stream
- # [15:52] <annevk> I wish I could tee my tea
- # [15:52] <Domenic> wanderview: you mean, alternating?
- # [15:52] <Domenic> wanderview: in that case yeah, a single reader alternating between the functions it calls
- # [15:52] <Domenic> wanderview: they can just hand out the reader object to multiple people
- # [15:52] <wanderview> Domenic: yea... or lock and unlock on each read
- # [15:53] <Domenic> meh just handing out the object seems simpler
- # [15:53] <Domenic> The object is the capability; if you want to give it out widely, no problem with doing so.
- # [15:53] <wanderview> Domenic: use case I can think of is where each reader represents a remote server to do the real work... and you are distributing the incoming load to them
- # [15:54] <wanderview> Domenic: or (harder to implement now), somehow attach N Worker threads to read from the same stream
- # [15:54] <wanderview> classic queue-with-threadpool model
- # [15:55] <wanderview> it would be kind of nice to give devs the ability to build a threadpool in some way
- # [15:55] <Domenic> seems totally doable
- # [15:56] <Domenic> .read().then(result => dispatchTo(workers[i], result))
- # [15:57] <wanderview> Domenic: thats not the same... the workers should pull when they are done with previous work... what you wrote could cause values to backup behind a worker stuck on a lot of slow work
- # [15:58] <Domenic> fair
- # [15:58] <Domenic> still not hard
- # [15:58] <wanderview> yea, it can be built in a library... just a lot of extra messaging for js to manage
- # [15:59] <Domenic> especially easy if workers get to expose writable streams and writable streams get more fine-grained flow control (desiredSize)
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- # [15:59] <Domenic> .read().then(result => findMinBy(workers, w => w.writable.desiredSize).writable.write(result.value)) // eliding done handling
- # [16:01] <Domenic> err findMaxBy
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- # [16:33] <wanderview> Domenic: yea, that seems like a possible way to fix it as well
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- # [16:43] <annevk> Is w3c-test.org offline?
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- # [17:36] <annevk> https://resources.whatwg.org/logo-storage.svg
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- # [17:39] <Domenic> might need some top and bottom borders, can't tell until i see it in a circle i guess
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- # [17:44] <TabAtkins> Same. Like the idea, but possible needs borders.
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- # [17:52] <caitp-> there are probably people working in tech today who have never seen a floppy disk in their life
- # [17:52] <caitp-> and yet it's still the universal "save/storage" symbol
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- # [17:53] <TabAtkins> Yeah, but that's how iconography works.
- # [17:54] <caitp-> but we did move away from representing it with a 5 1/4" floppy
- # [17:56] <TabAtkins> Yeah, but the 3 1/2" inch was the last real hard disk (zip disks don't count, nobody cared about them) so there was nothing to update to afterwards.
- # [17:56] <TabAtkins> And consumer CDs were mostly readonly at first; so they couldn't take over.
- # [17:57] <TabAtkins> Plus hard drives were large enough by then that people rarely saved to an external thing anyway. So the icon froze.
- # [18:00] <caitp-> could always be a mashup google/amazon/apple/adobe/cloud logo
- # [18:00] <annevk> Domenic: hmm I guess I can make a border around it
- # [18:00] <annevk> I kind of liked it this way
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- # [18:07] <Domenic> as i said, could work well once i see it with a circle around it
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- # [18:11] <annevk> Not all logos have a circle
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- # [18:12] <Domenic> hmm did not realize to what extent that was true
- # [18:12] <Domenic> i guess it would be better here not to
- # [18:12] <Domenic> hmm
- # [18:12] * Domenic notices the quirks mode logo ... amazing...
- # [18:14] <Domenic> I got un-lazy and used inspector to edit storage.spec.whatwg.org and show the logo in place (no circle). I think the giant gap at the bottom where it bleeds into the page is too much :-/
- # [18:18] <annevk> hmm yeah
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- # [18:26] <TabAtkins> annevk: It might be fine with a circle around it! I'm not sure. I just *suspect*, without seeing it in full, that the open space at the top and bottom will look weird. But maybe it's fine.
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- # [18:34] <annevk> Further patches/bug reports to the storage logo welcome in the resources.whatwg.org repo
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- # [23:03] <wanderview> jsbell: review ping on this last PR... https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/4825
- # [23:06] <jsbell> wanderview: oops, forgot to submit...
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- # [23:07] <wanderview> jsbell: the fetch-with-streams really does not drain the Response on .text()? that seems... really wrong
- # [23:09] <jsbell> wanderview: there was a recent change in chromium to align with that by the spec author, so I guess so. I have not absorbed streams or fetch-with-streams enough to argue. But I agree it seems weird.
- # [23:10] <wanderview> jsbell: well, I've objected to that proposal... I'll follow-up on that... and last I heard from annevk this was not being merged into fetch yet
- # [23:10] <wanderview> jsbell: seems premature to include this in wpt upstream
- # [23:18] <wanderview> jsbell: with this behavior it seems it forces the browser to keep the contents of the stream in memory....
- # [23:22] <wanderview> jsbell: thanks... for being obstinate
- # [23:22] <jsbell> :)
- # [23:23] <jsbell> wanderview: not waiting on anything else from me, correct?
- # [23:23] <wanderview> jsbell: correct, thank you very much for reviewing all those!
- # [23:24] <wanderview> I wrote a new issue for the bodyUsed thing: https://github.com/yutakahirano/fetch-with-streams/issues/37
- # [23:24] <jsbell> wanderview: np; we'll "downstream" them into Blink soon (I have a minion now...)
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- # [23:25] <jgraham> wanderview: Oh, so is everything you are waiting for in wpt now merged?
- # [23:26] <wanderview> jgraham: I have to address a nit in that last PR
- # [23:26] <wanderview> and then I will ask you to merge
- # [23:26] <jgraham> Oh, OK
- # [23:26] * jgraham requests that people use Issue for things that actually have to be fixed
- # [23:27] <jgraham> Even nits, if they have to be fixed
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- # [23:28] <wanderview> jgraham: I wish there was an easy way to run a PR to wpt upstream against the browser
- # [23:28] <wanderview> to make sure I don't make a stupid typo
- # [23:29] <jgraham> wanderview: Like starting the webserver on your local machine and running the test? Because that's very possible
- # [23:29] <jgraham> ./serve in the wpt checkout root, although you probably need to configure your hosts file
- # [23:30] <wanderview> jgraham: how do I get the tools dir?
- # [23:30] <jgraham> git submodule update --recursive --init
- # [23:30] <jgraham> https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/blob/master/README.md#running-the-tests
- # [23:32] <wanderview> jgraham: sadly, that doesn't work too well on my headless linux machine
- # [23:32] <wanderview> if it only listens on localhost
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- # [23:34] <jgraham> wanderview: You can actually change that in the config file
- # [23:35] <jgraham> Create a config.json with the bits of https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/blob/master/config.default.json that you want to override
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- # [23:36] <wanderview> I'm just cloning it on my laptop
- # [23:36] <wanderview> I have about 3 minutes before I have to leave
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- # [23:38] <wanderview> jgraham: sorry... it didn't work and I don't have time to investigate more... if you want me to retest before merging I can do it tomorrow
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- # [23:43] <jgraham> wanderview: Well it still needs to be reviewed anyway
- # [23:44] <jgraham> So I guess if jsbell tests and reviews it then I will merge it, but it does seem like tomorrow is more likely
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- # Session Close: Tue May 05 00:00:00 2015
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