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- # Session Start: Wed May 06 00:00:00 2015
- # Session Ident: #whatwg
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- # [06:59] <annevk> I wonder what https://github.com/w3c/webstorage-2nd-edition is. Is that localStorage?
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- # [07:47] <annevk_> hsivonen: I looked at his issues and I'm not really sure what to say there
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- # [07:48] <annevk> hsivonen: the space issues seem bs, but I can't really comment on email defaults...
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- # [09:14] <annevk_> How can we be sure this tenXer stuff does not return?
- # [09:14] * annevk_ is now known as annevk
- # [09:14] <annevk> It was in every repository...
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- # [09:19] <MikeSmith> annevk: what tenXer stuff? something happened in the last couple days?
- # [09:19] * MikeSmith has been traveling
- # [09:19] <annevk> MikeSmith: I think at some point somebody added it to a few repositories for statistics or some such
- # [09:20] <annevk> MikeSmith: but somehow it ended up "installed" everywhere including the private repository used for passwords
- # [09:20] <MikeSmith> Oh
- # [09:20] <annevk> Might want to check under Settings -> Webhooks & Services
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- # [09:48] <annevk> terinjokes: Domenic: GitHub's pages is mostly about some legacy content
- # [09:48] <terinjokes> annevk: doesn't make me any less :(
- # [09:49] <Domenic> annevk: would be nice to have HSTS for e.g. http://domenic.github.io/streams-demo
- # [09:50] <terinjokes> Domenic: since it last came up, we now have a button to turn on HSTS headers
- # [09:50] <Domenic> terinjokes: oooh awesome let me go do that
- # [09:50] <annevk> terinjokes: Domenic: https://twitter.com/mikewest/status/553576868562362368
- # [09:50] <terinjokes> but obviously requires a domain (or subdomain) going through our network
- # [09:51] <Domenic> replies there are heartening
- # [09:51] <terinjokes> Domenic: we're also beta testing x-content-type-options
- # [09:53] <Domenic> I don't really remember why I want that
- # [09:53] <terinjokes> tweet is correct, it's just a header and a 302
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- # [09:55] <Domenic> max-age 6 months seems low
- # [09:55] <Domenic> wow nice that it automatically does the preload flow for me
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- # [09:59] <Domenic> when are we getting http2 tho
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- # [12:03] <timoxley> https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#bodies "A body is a byte stream."
- # [12:04] <timoxley> what is a "byte stream"
- # [12:08] <darobin> honey, this here body is a lot more than a byte stream
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- # [12:23] <annevk> timoxley: a stream of bytes?
- # [12:24] <annevk> timoxley: though see https://github.com/yutakahirano/fetch-with-streams/ (and in particular the open issues) about refactoring that to make it more concrete
- # [12:25] <timoxley> annevk: that's what I was looking for, thanks.
- # [12:25] <jgraham> To be fair "byte stream" should link to something since it's an abstract concept
- # [12:28] <annevk> jgraham: it could be https://encoding.spec.whatwg.org/#concept-stream I guess, but waiting for streams and layering everything on top of that seems more fruitful
- # [12:30] <jgraham> Sure
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- # [12:37] <timoxley> "since it's an abstract concept" yeah I was expecting to see some kind of byte stream api
- # [12:38] <timoxley> considering "Let stream be an empty byte stream."
- # [12:38] <timoxley> https://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#body-mixin
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- # [14:30] <annevk> timoxley: oh, yeah, there'll be an API, that's that repository but also https://streams.spec.whatwg.org/
- # [14:30] <annevk> timoxley: somewhat work in progress still
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- # [14:51] <wanderview> jgraham: can you review this? https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/4918
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- # [14:52] <jgraham> wanderview: I can!
- # [14:53] <wanderview> jgraham: thanks! and this? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/page.cgi?id=splinter.html&bug=1161759&attachment=8601835
- # [14:53] <wanderview> just trying to get this stuff sorted before going on PTO tomorrow
- # [14:54] <jgraham> wanderview: r+ on that if it doesn't land before the timeout increases
- # [14:54] <jgraham> I can kick off a wpt upgrade right away; should be trivial since I just did one
- # [14:54] <wanderview> jgraham: ok, just let me know when to go ahead
- # [14:55] <wanderview> thanks
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- # [14:58] <annevk> wanderview++ for caring about wpt
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- # [14:59] <wanderview> annevk: they really are great for highlighting ambiguity in the spec...
- # [14:59] <wanderview> I think the blink and gecko Cache APIs are better aligned because of wpt
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- # [15:48] * smaug____ is now lost with annevk's shadow dom v1 and v2
- # [15:49] <smaug____> er, s/v1/1)/
- # [15:49] <smaug____> er, s/v2/2)/
- # [15:49] <annevk> smaug____: equivalent to 1/2 in https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/blob/gh-pages/proposals/Imperative-API-for-Node-Distribution-in-Shadow-DOM.md
- # [15:50] <annevk> smaug____: if that helps :-(
- # [15:52] <smaug____> I see
- # [15:52] <smaug____> annevk: it is the word "flattening" which I don't or didn't quite get in this context
- # [15:56] <annevk> smaug____: it's somewhat similar to promises in my mind
- # [15:56] <annevk> smaug____: one proposal keeps <content> intact, the other recursively unwraps <content> until there's only no-<content> nodes
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- # [15:58] <smaug____> conceptually
- # [15:59] <smaug____> but ok, still feel like 2) is the way to go
- # [15:59] <annevk> yeah, I wonder if rniwa's perf concerns are valid
- # [15:59] <smaug____> feels just most natural... but I should have better arguments
- # [15:59] <annevk> seems like it's still a fairly trivial traversal algorithm
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- # [16:00] <annevk> yeah my instincts say 2, definitely after seeing <content select> implemented in 1
- # [16:00] <annevk> and 3 doesn't seem DOM-like
- # [16:02] <smaug____> 3 sounds very complicated
- # [16:02] <annevk> that too
- # [16:02] <annevk> I wonder if it would run at the same times as that proposed compositor worker or whether it would be the same thing
- # [16:02] <smaug____> if we did that, we should just do isolation and somehow use the same global for isolation and distribution
- # [16:02] <annevk> Hard to judge without a concrete proposal
- # [16:03] <smaug____> right
- # [16:03] <annevk> Yeah, and the fact that then for each custom element you create you need to have a separate script somewhere else just seems painful
- # [16:03] <annevk> With full isolation something like that is not really a problem maybe...
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- # [16:29] <hsivonen> annevk: the locale attitude re: KOI8-R is terribly hostile to software devs and QA
- # [16:29] <hsivonen> annevk: but yeah, dunno about the true situation about the mail defaults
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- # [16:41] <SteveF_> annevk: feedback on is= and way forward looks sane ;-)
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- # [17:03] <annevk> ta
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- # [17:14] <dglazkov> annevk, smaug____: are you not worried about the compounding factor of running distributions at the nanotask time? If there are X elements in doc that have distribution callbacks registered, every DOM operation that mutates the tree will need to run X callbacks at the end of it.
- # [17:14] <dglazkov> that seems scary
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- # [17:15] <dglazkov> unless there's a way to determine and limit the scope of callbacks somehow?
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- # [17:18] <annevk> dglazkov: only for childList changes, no?
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- # [17:20] <annevk> dglazkov: I haven't fully considered the nanotask implications since it's a recent proposal
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- # [17:20] <annevk> dglazkov: moving away from synchronous layout APIs still seems preferable
- # [17:21] <smaug____> yeah, only if childlist changes
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- # [17:24] <smaug____> and web apps wanting to have better performance can start to rely on microtasks for distribution
- # [17:25] <smaug____> I see the nanotask part only something required for backwards compatibility
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- # [17:55] <dglazkov> the "don't break the web" type of backward compatibility :)
- # [17:56] <dglazkov> childList changes only... interesting
- # [17:56] <dglazkov> what if I want to build a distribution algo that relies on attribute changes?
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- # [18:01] <dglazkov> I do want to measure the impact of potential breakage we would cause by going to microtask timing. Working on it..
- # [18:01] <dglazkov> if the impact seems small, then I am all for it
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- # [18:31] <annevk> dglazkov: the impact might be largish now, but once the CSS WG starts defining proper async APIs or you only use requestAnimationFrame() for layout stuff life might get better?
- # [18:31] <annevk> dglazkov: for attribute changes I guess you'd observe attribute changes of the childList too?
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- # [18:36] <dglazkov> annevk: no disagreement that pain is temporary. Just the worry about the timeline of this pain being alleviated. My list of would-be-breakages keeps growing: https://github.com/dglazkov/nope-js/blob/master/nope.js#L12
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- # [18:42] <annevk> oh great, the new scrollingElement is one too?
- # [18:42] <annevk> how about we actually define style/layout triggers in CSSOM so people are more conscious about it
- # [18:43] <annevk> surprising that "the TAG" would approve of more sync layout
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- # [18:44] <TabAtkins> Hm, why is scrollingElement on that? Is it because you can theoretically put a shadow tree on <html>?
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- # [19:12] <dglazkov> TabAtkins: it's just a list of all of them
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- # [19:13] <zcorpan> annevk: TabAtkins: it's really only in quirks mode, because the <body> can itself be independently scrollable, and then the APIs scroll the body element itself instead of the viewport
- # [19:14] <annevk> zcorpan: you should take that nope.js file and add annotations all over CSSOM
- # [19:14] <zcorpan> annevk: dunno what nope.js is
- # [19:14] <annevk> zcorpan: it should not be cheap to define properties that cause synchronous style/layout
- # [19:14] <annevk> zcorpan: https://github.com/dglazkov/nope-js/blob/master/nope.js#L12
- # [19:15] <annevk> zcorpan: basically the list of getter/setter/methods that trigger synchronous stuff in CSS land
- # [19:15] <zcorpan> annevk: can you file a bug?
- # [19:15] <annevk> zcorpan: I'd like the spec for those getter/setter/methods to look suitably bad
- # [19:15] <annevk> zcorpan: can I file it against CSSOM and you'll sort out the rest?
- # [19:16] <zcorpan> annevk: sure
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- # [20:01] <dglazkov> smaug____: is this your land? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1162013
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- # [20:03] <smaug____> looking
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- # [20:04] <smaug____> someone else has been dealing with Promises stuff
- # [20:04] <smaug____> sounds like a dup of some other bug...
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- # [20:07] <annevk> dglazkov: basically, https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25981 is why we haven't sorted that yet
- # [20:08] <annevk> dglazkov: there's no normative specification for promise timing
- # [20:08] <smaug____> indeed
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- # [20:10] <annevk> I actually cannot find a duplicate
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- # [20:25] <dglazkov> thanks!
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- # [23:01] <terinjokes> Domenic: (and possibly others) any recommendations on a Windows Phone for Mobile IE testing?
- # [23:01] <terinjokes> happy to take discussion somewhere else if needed
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- # [23:40] <TabAtkins> annevk: Fetch kills javascript: urls from working, right?
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- # [23:43] <caitp-> "Otherwise: Return a network error."
- # [23:44] <TabAtkins> caitp-: Sweet.
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- # Session Close: Thu May 07 00:00:00 2015
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