/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2015-05-12 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue May 12 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] <Domenic> rniwa: if we said custom elements could define their own constructor, are you willing to run those author-defined constructors during parsing, or...?
  4. # [00:00] <Domenic> (also during cloning)
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  19. # [00:20] <rniwa> Domenic: we have to, right?
  20. # [00:20] <rniwa> Domenic: even in Dimitry's design of having a constructor having a callback
  21. # [00:20] <rniwa> Domenic: we'd still have to run it during parsing
  22. # [00:20] <rniwa> Domenic: i don't think there's a way around it
  23. # [00:21] <Domenic> rniwa: no, not in Dmitry's design. In Dmitry's design you just run the HTMLElement constructor like you currently are.
  24. # [00:21] <rniwa> Domenic: yeah but then you'd have to call user defined callback right after that
  25. # [00:21] <Domenic> Right, after parsing, but before returning control to the user
  26. # [00:21] <rniwa> Domenic: I don't think that makes sense.
  27. # [00:21] <Domenic> It's the same as createdCallback is today
  28. # [00:22] <rniwa> Domenic: that exposes "uninitialized" elements
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  30. # [00:22] <Domenic> It does indeed expose elements that have not had their createdCallback run
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  32. # [00:22] <rniwa> Domenic: because all those custom element callbacks would see other elements that have not been initialized
  33. # [00:22] <rniwa> Domenic: that's precisely why createdCallback is broken.
  34. # [00:22] <Domenic> If we don't allow that then we have to run constructors sync during parsing, before the parser continues creating more elements
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  36. # [00:22] <Domenic> It seems fine. Don't mess with your siblings while you're being created.
  37. # [00:23] <Domenic> But I understand if you disagree.
  38. # [00:23] <Domenic> It just seems like the better solution than introducing author code into the parser.
  39. # [00:23] <rniwa> Domenic: I just don't understand what the problem of introducing author code into the parser is
  40. # [00:23] <rniwa> Domenic: we already do this for sync script elements
  41. # [00:23] <rniwa> Domenic: what's so difficult about running script there?
  42. # [00:23] <rniwa> Domenic: I do see that cloning case is hard
  43. # [00:24] <Domenic> Hmm why is cloning different than parsing
  44. # [00:24] <rniwa> but I don't think invoking script during normal parsing is hard at all
  45. # [00:24] <rniwa> Domenic: because there's a bunch of UA internal code that clones nodes internally
  46. # [00:24] <rniwa> Domenic: e.g. editing
  47. # [00:24] <rniwa> Domenic: and a bunch of Range methods
  48. # [00:24] <rniwa> and a few other places
  49. # [00:24] <rniwa> Domenic: Gecko for examples clones the document for priting
  50. # [00:24] <Domenic> sure, but there's a bunch of UA internal code that parses too, right?
  51. # [00:24] <Domenic> hmm
  52. # [00:24] <rniwa> Domenic: I don't think so.
  53. # [00:24] <rniwa> Domenic: if you're talking about innerHTML, sure
  54. # [00:25] <rniwa> Domenic: or copy/paste
  55. # [00:25] <rniwa> Domenic: but those things can already run scripts anyway so there's nothing new
  56. # [00:25] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  57. # [00:25] <Domenic> Well if WebKit is OK running author code during parse and cloning then that's good to know.
  58. # [00:26] <Domenic> I got the impression Gecko wasn't, but I'm not sure.
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  61. # [00:28] <rniwa> Domenic: they're not okay with running the code during cloning
  62. # [00:28] <Domenic> Welp.
  63. # [00:28] <Domenic> During, or in reaction to?
  64. # [00:29] <Domenic> I guess they must be OK with in reaction to since they propose clonedCallback
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  67. # [00:31] <rniwa> Domenic: during cloning
  68. # [00:31] <rniwa> Domenic: I'm not sure if they want to add clonedCallback anymore
  69. # [00:31] <rniwa> Domenic: at least in v1
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  71. # [00:31] <Domenic> Yeah it's listed as v2
  72. # [00:32] <Domenic> It's pretty obvious though, gotta have it to emulate native elements
  73. # [00:33] <smaug____> Domenic: webkit is ok to run random scripts during cloning?
  74. # [00:34] <Domenic> That was my interpretation of rniwa above, but I might be reading too much into it.
  75. # [00:34] <rniwa> smaug____: I need look into it
  76. # [00:34] <rniwa> smaug____: we might just need to punt cloning in v1 and say it'll be broken once cloned
  77. # [00:34] <smaug____> right
  78. # [00:34] <smaug____> cloning is really hard
  79. # [00:35] <Domenic> i don't think that's feasible
  80. # [00:35] <smaug____> anything can happen when a script runs
  81. # [00:35] <rniwa> Domenic: what is not feasible?
  82. # [00:35] <Domenic> cloning is fundamental to the core issues of custom elements; punting on cloning is like punting on constructors.
  83. # [00:35] <Domenic> (which, y'know, Chrome did, but I'm not happy about.)
  84. # [00:36] <smaug____> node (the original or clone) gets adopted to another document, window is closed, node is moved to another place in the document, etc..
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  86. # [00:40] <aklein> punting cloning would also punt users of <template>
  87. # [00:40] <aklein> I think that'd be undesireable
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  95. # [01:01] <hober> if "punting cloning" means "behaves like <canvas> when cloned," i don't think it's all that bad.
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  98. # [01:13] <aklein> hober: you'd have to ask rniwa what he meant, but I assumed it meant "don't run the element's constructor when it's cloned", which is not what happens to <canvas>
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  119. # [02:04] <rniwa> aklein, smaug____, Domenic: indeed, it's hard but i'm hoping that we'll be able to find a way.
  120. # [02:04] <rniwa> it would really suck if custom element's contract was different from builtin such that you could never use custom element API to implement a builtin element for example
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  375. # [12:47] <hsivonen> contemplating replying to Shane on public-html about EPUB and RDFa
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  390. # [13:09] <Ms2ger> That does not sound like a good idea
  391. # [13:13] * espadrine_ is now known as espadrine
  392. # [13:13] <SteveF_> Ms2ger: it's a resonable idea to provide counter arguments to ARIA is a good vehicle to allow RDFa EVERYWHERE in HTML
  393. # [13:14] <SteveF_> Domenic: Annevk: thoughts on https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2015AprJun/0622.html ?
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  417. # [14:57] <Domenic> SteveF_: probably change it from role="button" to behavior="button" to get past the compat hurdle. Then, spend a lot of time speccing exactly what that means, cross-platform. Doing that will be 80% of the way to exposing the individual primitives (since you've now specced them); ideally then do the extra 20%, but that's optional I guess.
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  419. # [15:00] <SteveF_> Domenic: sounds like something beyond my technical capabilities, I was looking for a relatively simple way to extend current label behaviour to custom buttons etc. on a somewhat related note this may be of interest if you haven't seen https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/WebAccessibilityAPI
  420. # [15:01] <SteveF_> stuff being worked on by surkov from mozilla
  421. # [15:02] <Domenic> Haven't seen; very interesting.
  422. # [15:02] <SteveF_> some discussion of above on Google browser acc list https://groups.google.com/d/msg/browser-accessibility-dev/7M9fUOQmkc4/Ix2x-7m8EZsJ
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  712. # Session Close: Wed May 13 00:00:00 2015

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