/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2015-05-27 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed May 27 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  166. # [08:03] <MikeSmith> nice to see progress being made on Upgrade Insecure Requests in gecko https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1139297
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  404. # [19:04] <smaug____> dglazkov: just random question. How do blink folks do code reviews? will some people end up doing lots of them or is the time to get a review occasionally too long
  405. # [19:05] * smaug____ wonders how other open source projects (than Mozilla) do reviews
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  415. # [19:18] <jarek> Hi
  416. # [19:18] <jarek> there seem to be two ways to get styling property or attribute value:
  417. # [19:18] <jarek> element.attributes.id.value vs element.getAttribute("id")
  418. # [19:18] <jarek> element.style.fontSize vs element.getPropertyValue("font-size")
  419. # [19:19] <jarek> are there any plans to deprecate the getter/setter API?
  420. # [19:20] <jarek> I mean element.style.getPropertyValue("font-size")
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  423. # [19:24] <jarek> Also, how element.dataset.size is different from element.attributes["data-size"]?
  424. # [19:28] <gsnedders> deprecating it is kinda pointless, because practically they'll never get removed
  425. # [19:30] <jarek> gsnedders: by deprecating I mean discouraging their use
  426. # [19:30] <jarek> though I'm not really sure whether the getter/setter API is worse
  427. # [19:31] <jarek> what I don't like is the inconsistency
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  435. # [19:55] <dglazkov> smaug____: there's definitely an occasional review lag. It's also a good idea to point the code review at someone who would be suitable for review (the git cl upload tool will suggest the reviewers).
  436. # [19:56] <dglazkov> smaug____: we have OWNERs that helps a bit with some parts of the code, and watchlists that will cc the potentially interested folks
  437. # [19:56] <smaug____> ok, OWNERs is like peers in Gecko
  438. # [19:57] <smaug____> (well, we have module owners and then peers)
  439. # [19:57] <smaug____> dglazkov: is it a problem that some people end up doing lots of reviewing?
  440. # [19:58] <smaug____> or do you have some tools to split reviews somehow evenly to potential reviewers
  441. # [19:58] <jgraham> smaug____: I have *no idea* why you might be asking that ;)
  442. # [19:58] <dglazkov> it's expected for a senior engineer to do more reviews
  443. # [19:58] <smaug____> :p
  444. # [19:58] * jgraham understands that smaug____ spends about 26 hours a day reviewing
  445. # [19:58] <smaug____> right
  446. # [19:59] <jgraham> smaug____: FWIW the Opera/Critic solution is to assign the reviews automatically to people based on user-defined filters
  447. # [19:59] <smaug____> meaning what?
  448. # [20:01] <jgraham> smaug____: You add a filter for the bits of the code you are allowed to review (and a "watching" filter for bits of the code that you are interested in but can't sign off on). Then when patches come in all the people with filters matching parts of the review are assigned those parts. It's up to them to sort out who takes each review.
  449. # [20:02] <jgraham> This also allows reviews to be done collaboratively, where that makes sense
  450. # [20:02] <smaug____> so review request ends up to some generic queue
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  452. # [20:03] <jgraham> if you like, but the point is that it becomes an organisational problem to distribute the reviews in the most efficient way rather than making the requestee pick a reviewer with no context
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  454. # [20:04] <jgraham> c.f. the way that bz deletes the string "bz" from his bugzilla handle when he is overloaded or going to be away
  455. # [20:05] <jgraham> That's pretty clear evidence that "submitter picks a reviewer" doesn't work
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  459. # [20:05] <smaug____> usually it works quite well
  460. # [20:05] <smaug____> I wonder whether the generic queue approach makes then certain people to do even more reviewing
  461. # [20:06] <smaug____> do you recall if that was an issue at Opera?
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  463. # [20:06] <jgraham> Well, I recall that some people did a lot of reviewing, but I couldn't tell you if they considered it a problem of the approach, or something that was worse with that approach than other approaches
  464. # [20:07] <jgraham> I believe that the overwhelming majority of people liked the review tool overall
  465. # [20:07] <jgraham> so I guess that suggests they weren't totally overloaded
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  467. # [20:17] <smaug____> (reviewing is usually fun, but I'm always interested in to improve the process)
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  537. # [22:13] <jamesr___> SimonSapin: wtf8 is brilliant
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  539. # [22:14] <SimonSapin> the idea is not new, but it was a bit hand-wavy before
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  541. # [22:14] <jamesr___> yeah, but could be pretty useful in a browser engine that needs to support DOMString everywhere but doesn't want to have half null bytes
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  544. # [22:16] <jamesr___> blink detects and uses a bit for 8 bit strings
  545. # [22:16] <SimonSapin> that was the original motivation indeed (in Servo)
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  547. # [22:16] <jamesr___> i think some VMs do too
  548. # [22:16] <jamesr___> does ***monkey?
  549. # [22:16] <SimonSapin> yes
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  551. # [22:16] <jamesr___> i think the dart vm uses either 1, 2, or 4 bytes per character for a string
  552. # [22:16] <jamesr___> and a particular string is one or the other
  553. # [22:16] <jamesr___> (or at least that was a plan, not sure if it's implemented)
  554. # [22:16] <SimonSapin> so does python 3.3+
  555. # [22:16] <jamesr___> so indexing in a particular string is always constant time
  556. # [22:17] * schuki is now known as Guest31563
  557. # [22:17] <jamesr___> but a big string with one surrogate pair is 3/4ths 0x00
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  560. # [22:17] <SimonSapin> in SpiderMonkey: https://blog.mozilla.org/javascript/2014/07/21/slimmer-and-faster-javascript-strings-in-firefox/
  561. # [22:17] <jamesr___> what does servo use now?
  562. # [22:17] <jamesr___> ah yeah, looks about the same as blink
  563. # [22:17] <jamesr___> assuming there's a bit in the string header for which it is?
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  565. # [22:18] <SimonSapin> I think Servo uses UTF-8 (Rust’s native string type), so unpaired surrogates in the DOM are replaced with U+FFFD
  566. # [22:18] <SimonSapin> it’s unclear if this is a real web compat issue
  567. # [22:18] <jamesr___> yeah that's going to be a problem
  568. # [22:18] <jamesr___> people store all sorts of crazy shit in storage apis through DOMStrings
  569. # [22:18] <SimonSapin> and if it is, we’re undecided between WTF-8 and ill-formed UTF-16
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  571. # [22:19] <jamesr___> i can't remember the details but we've broken several web properties by accidentally doing unicode conversions at different parts of our storage systems over the years
  572. # [22:19] <SimonSapin> but Rust ships with WTF-8 for OS strings on Windows in the standard library
  573. # [22:19] <jamesr___> where somebody assumed that a DOMString could be round-tripped to a unicode string (typically utf8)
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  576. # [22:20] <jamesr___> filesystem APIs on non-windows have all sorts of crazy crap too
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  587. # [22:27] <hemanth> can't let rest = await fetch(url); let data = await resp.json(); be reduced to a single statement ?
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  616. # [22:47] <TabAtkins> jarek: For CSS, at least, the getter/setter pair mean you don't need to worry about the handful of randomly-renamed properties ("float" vs "cssFloat", due to ES3-era propery name restrictions). They're also required for any properties that don't propertly convert from snake-case to camelCase, like all custom properties.
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  622. # [22:50] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: Like jamesr___ said, using utf-8 for JS strings is *definitely* not web-compatible. A bunch of different tools rely on the fact that strings are effectively u16 arrays to encode arbitrary binary data into them.
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  624. # [22:51] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: Also, thanks for the Rust tree/parser/selector stuff! Will look it over eventually.
  625. # [22:52] <SimonSapin> for JS strings yes, agreed
  626. # [22:52] <SimonSapin> but for text in the DOM tree?
  627. # [22:53] <jamesr___> well depends on what you mean by 'in the DOM tree'
  628. # [22:53] <jamesr___> a lot of web APIs are specified in DOMString which is list of u16
  629. # [22:53] <jamesr___> you'll need to hook those up to something in servo
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  631. # [22:54] <SimonSapin> I mean the data of Text nodes, for example
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  633. # [22:55] <smaug____> for Text nodes Gecko stores the strings using either 8 or 16 bits strings
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  635. # [22:57] <SimonSapin> smaug____: the question is, is preserving unpaired surrogates there necessary for web compat?
  636. # [22:57] <SimonSapin> hsivonen was suggesting that maybe not
  637. # [22:58] <jamesr___> i would recommend testing that theory with telemetry data
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  639. # [22:58] <smaug____> SimonSapin: I'd assume it is necessary
  640. # [22:58] <SimonSapin> yes, telemetry would be interesting
  641. # [22:58] <jamesr___> not all encodings web pages use are unicode too, remember
  642. # [22:59] <SimonSapin> jamesr___: do browser support encodings that don’t map to Unicode somehow?
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  648. # [23:09] <jamesr___> that's a good question
  649. # [23:10] <jamesr___> even if browsers don't support it (i.e. don't render the text as expected) script in the page might expect data contents to round-trip
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  665. # [23:38] <gsnedders> jamesr___: I remember some talk about flags for 8-bit strings being done on the leaves of the rope, so that a big string with one surrogate pair doesn't pay a huge price
  666. # [23:38] <gsnedders> jamesr___: idk if that ever happened though
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  668. # [23:40] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: can we have style.float work nowadays? IIRC the spec says it should work now?
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  671. # [23:42] <TabAtkins> gsnedders: We *can* have it work, yes; those naming restrictions were dropped in ES5. The spec does indeed say that el.style.float *should* be usable.
  672. # [23:42] <TabAtkins> Doesn't help custom properties, tho.
  673. # [23:43] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: I mean "may we have" :P
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  675. # [23:43] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: I'm well aware ES5 dropped all this
  676. # [23:44] <JoWie> heh i added support for style.float in jsdom last week
  677. # [23:44] <JoWie> all browsers implement it now yes
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  679. # [23:45] <gsnedders> yay!
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  681. # [23:47] <JoWie> cssFloat is synced up with float
  682. # [23:49] <JoWie> just like the fontSize and ['font-size'] stuff
  683. # [23:50] <gsnedders> Yeah, indeed.
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  689. # Session Close: Thu May 28 00:00:00 2015

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