/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2015-06-02 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Jun 02 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  88. # [03:28] <MikeSmith> https://lists.mozilla.org/pipermail/dev-platform/2015-June/010180.html
  89. # [03:28] <MikeSmith> "We enabled native copy-to-clipboard on github.com today for Firefox Nightly visitors. The copy buttons no longer use a Flash widget in Nightly or Chrome!"
  90. # [03:28] <MikeSmith> nice
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  187. # [04:27] <MikeSmith> former Chrome engineer Shiki Okasaka now has his own company making a pretty cool new ergonomic keyboard http://www.esrille.com/keyboard/ with the source for its firmware available on Github (and designed to be user-updateable relatively easily)
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  191. # [04:38] <caitp-> my goal is to slack off as much as possible, and with as good posture as possible, so that I don't have to worry about rsi or other injuries like that
  192. # [04:38] <caitp-> and hopefully retire before 40
  193. # [04:38] <caitp-> here's hopin
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  195. # [04:40] <caitp-> maybe it's futile :(
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  374. # [14:09] <MikeSmith> https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=495577
  375. # [14:09] <MikeSmith> Chrome shouldn't be trying to fetch something in a background tab if it requires user interaction in order to load
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  377. # [14:09] <MikeSmith> (and then keeping a socket open waiting for the user interaction to happen)
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  431. # [17:24] <benjamingr> Domenic: what's web platform branding? Not to be annoying yet again - but I can't seem to be able to google it
  432. # [17:24] <Domenic> benjamingr: I don't know what you're referring to?
  433. # [17:24] <benjamingr> "WeakSets are perfect for branding and are how I would expect web platform class branding to be explained."
  434. # [17:24] <benjamingr> Oh lol, web platform _class_ branding, sorry.
  435. # [17:26] <benjamingr> Like, why wouldn't an `instanceof` or another similar check work there Domenic ?
  436. # [17:26] <Domenic> benjamingr: because then you could fool it with Object.create(Foo)
  437. # [17:26] <Domenic> (Or with [Symbol.hasInstance], these days.)
  438. # [17:27] <benjamingr> Why would you be _that_ defensive about it in the first place?
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  440. # [17:29] <caitp> fooling instanceof isn't necessarily bad
  441. # [17:29] <benjamingr> I'm not being critical, I genuinely don't know where I'd be that defensive
  442. # [17:29] <caitp> it's potentially helpful for unit tests
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  445. # [17:29] <benjamingr> caitp: here's context https://esdiscuss.org/topic/actual-weakset-use-cases
  446. # [17:29] <caitp> yes I know, I sent a reply
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  448. # [17:29] <benjamingr> oh wait, you arleady commented there nvm
  449. # [17:29] <benjamingr> *already
  450. # [17:30] <benjamingr> caitp: wouldn't that example work with a regular set too?
  451. # [17:30] <caitp> well sure
  452. # [17:30] <benjamingr> (Domenic 's doesn't since the set outlive the objects)
  453. # [17:30] <Domenic> benjamingr: because you could break C++
  454. # [17:31] <Domenic> benjamingr: C++ code does stuff like getInternalCppObjectFrom(jsObject)
  455. # [17:31] <benjamingr> Domenic: but if it's to guard C++, can't/shouldn't it be done from the C++ side anyway?
  456. # [17:31] <caitp> you're right, you could use a plain ol' Set
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  458. # [17:32] <Domenic> benjamingr: yes, that is how it's currently done. But if you wanted to implement things in JS (which would have its own invariants, e.g. getInternalJSObjectFrom(jsObject)) you'd use WeakSet.
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  460. # [17:32] <caitp> although theoretically fn() could destroy <object>
  461. # [17:32] <caitp> and if it gets collected during iteration, not impossible, you know
  462. # [17:33] <Domenic> in general any security-sensitive code that depends on object invariants would use this
  463. # [17:33] <benjamingr> Domenic: interesting, in your example you can `.call(myFakeObject)` to add things in - but that's besides the point. I wonder if I can come up with a library example.
  464. # [17:34] <benjamingr> If you have existing security critical code that needs this I'd definitely love to see it.
  465. # [17:34] <Domenic> benjamingr: like, all of browsers, or anything Mark Miller writes.
  466. # [17:34] <benjamingr> caitp: but you still own a reference to the object from the closure - if you had a weakref instead that'd work.
  467. # [17:34] <Domenic> benjamingr: what do you mean by .call(myFakeObject)?
  468. # [17:34] <Domenic> class constructors aren't callable, remember.
  469. # [17:34] <benjamingr> Oh, right, my mistake
  470. # [17:34] <caitp> stop using your logic on me :p
  471. # [17:35] <Domenic> weakrefs
  472. # [17:35] <caitp> yes, Weak isn't really ar equirement for that use case
  473. # [17:35] <Domenic> we're going to have SAB, might as well have weakrefs
  474. # [17:35] <benjamingr> Domenic: anything mark miller writes is the first place I looked (well, the thesis and recent security papers). I couldn't distill a use case from there I could show.
  475. # [17:36] <Domenic> benjamingr: hmm maybe look through the SES source code. He probably uses WeakMap with dummy values.
  476. # [17:36] <benjamingr> That's a good idea, I'll do that thanks.
  477. # [17:37] <benjamingr> IIRC Mark has that really cool WeakMap shim for SES but doesn't actually use WeakSet
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  479. # [17:37] <Domenic> Yeah that is my recollection too but it seems quite possible he uses it conceptually while using the actual WeakMap impl.
  480. # [17:39] <benjamingr> yes, WeakMap but no WeakSet. Your "guarding against X" example is pretty good though, like having verified objects that were impossible to tinker with. It can be done with a WeakMap easily but then again that's true for every Set and it's still pretty solid.
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  555. # [20:16] <TabAtkins> Yeah, a set is just a Map where you only ever use .has(), never .get().
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  580. # [20:45] * wilsonpage is now known as wilsonpage-away
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  652. # [23:47] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@corp.mtv2.mozilla.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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  654. # Session Close: Wed Jun 03 00:00:00 2015

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