/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2015-06-09 / end

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  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  128. # [06:13] <MikeSmith> The Bloomberg site has a pretty cool way of handling page transitions as you scroll vertically
  129. # [06:13] <MikeSmith> e.g., starting at http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-06-08/donald-rumsfeld-george-w-bush-was-wrong-about-iraq
  130. # [06:14] <MikeSmith> which as you scroll past the end of that article transitions to the next one at http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-06-09/inidian-prime-minister-s-despite-being-a-woman-remark-sparks-backlash
  131. # [06:14] <MikeSmith> then from that to http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-06-09/bono-and-bill-clinton-denver-gets-a-power-lunch
  132. # [06:14] <MikeSmith> etc
  133. # [06:15] <MikeSmith> I wonder how many other sites are doing this
  134. # [06:15] <boogyman> I believe that's called the infinite scroll
  135. # [06:16] <MikeSmith> boogyman: no it's not
  136. # [06:16] <MikeSmith> not in the normal sense
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  138. # [06:16] <MikeSmith> in the normal sense the URL for the page stays the same
  139. # [06:16] <MikeSmith> which is why many people rightly don't like infinite scroll
  140. # [06:17] <boogyman> ah, so they are using the History API to push the new article onto the stack.
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  144. # [06:24] <MikeSmith> boogyman: yeah
  145. # [06:24] <MikeSmith> but I remember there was some other proposed API for facilitating this
  146. # [06:25] * MikeSmith searches
  147. # [06:26] <MikeSmith> I find https://docs.google.com/document/d/17jg1RRL3RI969cLwbKBIcoGDsPwqaEdBxafGNYGwiY4/edit#heading=h.pcll678prpwu
  148. # [06:26] <MikeSmith> but I think that's not what I had remembered
  149. # [06:28] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@2001:cb0:b202:224:2677:3ff:fece:dc64)
  150. # [06:29] <MikeSmith> http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/11/20/chromes-upcoming-navigation-transitions-api-will-make-the-web-animate-and-flow-like-material-design-in-android/
  151. # [06:29] <MikeSmith> but then something more recent from Chris Lord that actually looks a lot better: http://chrislord.net/index.php/2015/04/24/web-navigation-transitions/
  152. # [06:30] <boogyman> dang, i haven't seen these.
  153. # [06:32] <MikeSmith> https://www.chromestatus.com/features/5169444246519808 entry for "Navigation Transitions" says "No longer pursuing"
  154. # [06:33] <MikeSmith> it looks like the code was implemented in blink but then removed last month
  155. # [06:33] <MikeSmith> https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=370696#c86
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  276. # [08:57] <annevk> So I got two password reset emails from wordpress.com...
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  292. # [09:10] <MikeSmith> hey annevk
  293. # [09:10] <MikeSmith> that's double protection I guess
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  296. # [09:11] <annevk> I wonder if I should be worried
  297. # [09:11] <MikeSmith> I guess you should always be worried if you're using wordpress
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  300. # [09:12] <MikeSmith> seriously
  301. # [09:12] <MikeSmith> it seems like multiple accidents waiting to happen
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  303. # [09:14] <MikeSmith> annevk: anyway, the other day when we were talking about one of those tweets in Japanese about WHATWG, do you remember one being about stuff to enable sites to smoothly transition between different documents?
  304. # [09:14] * Joins: jkomoros______ (sid7860@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ouznwgnjhlecevjg)
  305. # [09:14] <MikeSmith> in the context of single-page-app kind of user experiences
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  307. # [09:15] <annevk> I don't really...
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  309. # [09:15] <MikeSmith> oh
  310. # [09:15] <MikeSmith> ah well
  311. # [09:16] <annevk> I did figure out what https://twitter.com/hail2u_/status/604693350445285376 was about
  312. # [09:16] <MikeSmith> anyway I was trying to remember if anybody had ever properly specced out anything about it
  313. # [09:16] <MikeSmith> oh
  314. # [09:16] <annevk> Apparently HTML and that game use a bunch of terms that are similar
  315. # [09:16] <annevk> Such as "element"
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  317. # [09:16] <MikeSmith> hah
  318. # [09:16] <MikeSmith> well
  319. # [09:16] <MikeSmith> chemistry uses "element" too
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  322. # [09:17] <annevk> "attribute" too apparently
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  326. # [09:19] <MikeSmith> annevk: when you have minute please look at http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-06-08/donald-rumsfeld-george-w-bush-was-wrong-about-iraq and scroll down past the end of the first article
  327. # [09:20] <MikeSmith> or see http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20150609#l-128 for the context
  328. # [09:20] <MikeSmith> the seem to have put a pretty nice user experience around navigation transitions from one document/article to the next
  329. # [09:21] <MikeSmith> maybe there are other sites that are doing this well now, I dunno
  330. # [09:21] <annevk> “I am happy that Bangladesh Prime Minister, despite being a woman, has declared zero tolerance for terrorism.” o_O
  331. # [09:21] <MikeSmith> heh
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  334. # [09:21] <annevk> Oooh, they change the URL too, pretty cool
  335. # [09:22] <MikeSmith> yeah
  336. # [09:22] <annevk> Now they need to add some HTTPS
  337. # [09:22] <MikeSmith> well yeah
  338. # [09:22] <MikeSmith> baby steps
  339. # [09:22] <MikeSmith> it would be nice to hear from the developers how they are doing that
  340. # [09:22] <MikeSmith> and if there are others doing it well now
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  343. # [09:23] <MikeSmith> and then maybe pave some cowpath there
  344. # [09:23] <MikeSmith> because the Google-led "Navigation Transitions" thing that the implemented in blink seems to have not been a technical success
  345. # [09:24] <MikeSmith> since they yanked all the code for it least month
  346. # [09:24] <MikeSmith> Chris Lord's proposal at http://chrislord.net/index.php/2015/04/24/web-navigation-transitions/ looks sane
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  375. # [10:13] <annevk> I remember both not making much sense to me
  376. # [10:13] <annevk> Ah, Chris updated his post with my suggestion
  377. # [10:13] <annevk> Though not all the text...
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  400. # [11:29] <jgraham> annevk: Do you know enough to help with the script execution problems I have? Specifically I am speccing a process that has a Window object, a string representing a function body, and an array of arguments, and I want to correctly get the effect of something like "var fn = new Function($body); fn.prototype.apply($window, $args)" i.e. construct a function object from the body and execute it with the provided args with window as the this object in the
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  408. # [11:59] <annevk> jgraham: I guess you could look at what event handlers did
  409. # [11:59] <annevk> jgraham: I think you basically want to talk to bz though
  410. # [12:00] <jgraham> annevk: So I basically copied what event handlers did so far, but then to actually run the script they call some WebIDL algorithm that does conversion to IDL types, which is unfortunately more than I want
  411. # [12:02] <annevk> jgraham: I guess you could call directly to some ES-defined algorithm
  412. # [12:02] <annevk> jgraham: if you don't work with IDL that's sort of what you have to do
  413. # [12:02] <annevk> jgraham: though then you need to security checks and such yourself too
  414. # [12:02] <annevk> jgraham: at which point you want to talk to bz
  415. # [12:03] <jgraham> Yeah, so I wondered if I could just call [[Call]] but it wasn't clear to me that would actually specify execution in the right global
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  417. # [12:04] <annevk> You probably need a little more, but I'm also lacking some context so I'm not sure
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  419. # [12:04] <jgraham> annevk: The context is that I'm trying to rewrite https://w3c.github.io/webdriver/webdriver-spec.html#executescript to be less wrong
  420. # [12:05] * jgraham -> train
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  429. # [12:23] <annevk> jgraham: I guess you want to study how eval() works and copy that?
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  436. # [12:58] <jgraham> annevk: So I think the thing I fundamentally don't understand is which bits that are in HTML but aren't in ES I need (the script settings object &c.)
  437. # [13:00] <jgraham> http://hoppipolla.co.uk/410/webdriver-spec/webdriver-spec.html#executescript is what I wrote so far
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  441. # [13:02] <jgraham> (step 6 is known to be wrong, but not in a relevant way)
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  443. # [13:16] <smaug____> annevk: dglazkov: I wonder how we should proceed with shadow DOM. Has the "3 champions" perhaps discussed something privately, and will have a proposal? (I still think imperative API should be the v1 solution)
  444. # [13:17] <smaug____> but I wouldn't be surprised if simple slots based approach will be used
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  452. # [13:37] <annevk> jgraham: script settings object is 1:1 with global object iirc
  453. # [13:38] <annevk> jgraham: but as others have said there's some missing bits in IDL and HTML, and perhaps in ES
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  455. # [13:42] <annevk> hmm, smaug left
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  458. # [13:53] <annevk> TabAtkins: I need some help with that typing of <dfn>
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  460. # [13:53] <annevk> TabAtkins: I have the feeling rubys did it wrong for URL
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  462. # [13:53] <annevk> TabAtkins: with lt="URL query" rather than something about the type being a URL, and query just being the term
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  473. # [14:37] <annevk> TabAtkins: also see https://github.com/whatwg/dom/issues/39#issuecomment-110343254
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  487. # [14:52] <Sebmaster> annevk: am i reading the TR46 spec correctly, in that it doesn't have as many requirements for valid labels as the IDNA2008 spec?
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  489. # [14:56] <annevk> Sebmaster: yeah
  490. # [14:56] <annevk> Sebmaster: browsers use IDNA2003
  491. # [14:56] <annevk> (roughly)
  492. # [14:56] <Sebmaster> great :/, so the idna test data doesn't have to necessarily pass?
  493. # [14:56] <annevk> Sebmaster: I think the IDNA test data is correct per browsers
  494. # [14:57] <Sebmaster> oh, hrm
  495. # [14:57] <annevk> Sebmaster: and TR46 does have a non-transitional mode that should match IDNA2008
  496. # [14:57] <Sebmaster> then i may have bugs in my implementation
  497. # [14:57] <annevk> but URL doesn't use it
  498. # [14:57] <Sebmaster> oh yeah, tr46 is weird
  499. # [14:57] <Sebmaster> it uuh
  500. # [14:57] <Sebmaster> describes something impossible for conformance tests
  501. # [14:57] <Sebmaster> but maybe i read it wrong
  502. # [14:58] <annevk> it's not a great writeup, but it's somewhat better now than before
  503. # [14:58] <Sebmaster> http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr46/#Format
  504. # [14:58] <Sebmaster> see toASCII vs toUnicode
  505. # [14:59] <Sebmaster> toUnicode in the tests says it accepts the processing_option
  506. # [14:59] <Sebmaster> but the implementation further up defines processing_option only for toASCII
  507. # [14:59] <Sebmaster> i think the test descriptions are switched around there
  508. # [15:01] <annevk> ToUnicode always sets the processing_option to NonTransitional it seems
  509. # [15:01] <annevk> not sure if that matches browsers, hmm
  510. # [15:01] <annevk> I thought this was somewhat different before
  511. # [15:01] <Sebmaster> yeah but the conformance description says ToUnicode should accept the processing_option given in the first cell
  512. # [15:02] <annevk> I might not have reviewed ToUnicode closely enough
  513. # [15:02] <annevk> browsers generally use ToASCII
  514. # [15:02] <annevk> only for display is ToUnicode used
  515. # [15:02] <Sebmaster> my issues is just with the conformance test description
  516. # [15:03] <Sebmaster> when i switched the two processing_options around (i.e. apply the given processing_option to toASCII) and always use nontransitional for unicode it seems to pass more tests
  517. # [15:03] <Sebmaster> the conformance test section doesn't match the implementation parameters, is what i'm saying
  518. # [15:04] <Sebmaster> no idea yet with regards to if the implementation itself is described perfectly
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  526. # [15:35] <annevk> Sebmaster: you should give Unicode feedback
  527. # [15:35] <annevk> Sebmaster: and document somewhere that you did, since their archiving is poor
  528. # [15:35] <annevk> Sebmaster: e.g. by emailing www-archive@w3.org your feedback
  529. # [15:35] <Sebmaster> i have no idea where to go, so you were the first that came to mind
  530. # [15:36] <annevk> http://www.unicode.org/reporting.html unfortunately...
  531. # [15:36] <annevk> Mark Davis tells me to use that form and they seem to process those comments
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  533. # [15:42] <Sebmaster> okay, will do
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  535. # [15:42] <annevk> Sebmaster: ta
  536. # [15:43] <annevk> TabAtkins: https://github.com/tabatkins/bikeshed/issues/403 still not fixed afaict
  537. # [15:43] <annevk> TabAtkins: force=Document that is
  538. # [15:43] <annevk> TabAtkins: Document still links to HTML
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  545. # [16:12] <wanderview> JakeA: s/CookieContainer/CookieJar/g
  546. # [16:13] <JakeA> hah, yeep
  547. # [16:14] <wanderview> thats my significant contribution for today
  548. # [16:14] * wanderview goes back to bed
  549. # [16:14] <JakeA> :D
  550. # [16:14] <JakeA> S'ok, my brain is broken reading https://github.com/petkaantonov/bluebird/issues/415
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  553. # [16:31] * annevk wonders if Domenic is following the promise changes on es-discuss
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  567. # [17:05] <Domenic> I am mostly ignoring them, they go into weird territory quickly
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  576. # [17:37] <awal> hello
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  579. # [17:43] <MikeSmith> TabAtkins: I'm guessing the mysql "Too many connections" at https://drafts.csswg.org/ is something only Peter has access to fix and he's probably not online yet?
  580. # [17:43] <awal> I am sorry I don't know where else to ask this, but https://developer.chrome.com/devtools/docs/commandline-api#additional-apis this page describes that we can hook extra functions to the __commandLineAPI object and links to the extension https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/debug-utils/djailkkojeahmihdpcelmmobkpepmkcl?utm_source=chrome-app-lau
  581. # [17:43] <awal> ncher-info-dialog but it doesn't seem to be working as expected. It exposes the debugUtils object to the window scope as well. Is this intended behavior? How can I add functions for the console scope only?
  582. # [17:44] <awal> cc paul_irish ^ (sorry for random ping but someone told me I can ping you here for devtools related questions)
  583. # [17:45] <MikeSmith> awal: you might have better luck asking in #chromium-support
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  587. # [17:45] <awal> MikeSmith: ok thanks! :)
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  591. # [17:51] <JonathanNeal> In the small event someone wants to check it out or test it, I wrote a pretty small DOM4 query polyfill this morning that won’t modify the DOM or add to the query selector to accomplish the task. Not that size matters these days, but I’ve scoped it out to be roughly 603bytes minified+gzipped https://gist.github.com/jonathantneal/446aea88f6d49b665dcc
  592. # [17:52] <JonathanNeal> It would probably be even smaller if I cut out the IE8 support, too.
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  597. # [18:01] <Domenic> I wonder what a DOM4 is
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  603. # [18:07] <annevk> It's a thing I coined at some point when I didn't know better
  604. # [18:08] <annevk> And it stuck :-(
  605. # [18:08] <tantek> sounds legit
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  608. # [18:11] <annevk> Well W3C put a sticker on it, so I guess it is
  609. # [18:11] <awal> where to get the sticker
  610. # [18:12] <Domenic> only streams and html have stickers so far
  611. # [18:12] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
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  613. # [18:14] <annevk> Streams does?
  614. # [18:14] <annevk> Oh, you're talking actual stickers
  615. # [18:14] <annevk> :-)
  616. # [18:15] <Domenic> :)
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  631. # [18:31] <MikeSmith> we're actually already at DOM 4.1 at the W3C
  632. # [18:32] <MikeSmith> I even made a logo for it http://emidius.mi.ingv.it/pictures/logo_DOM4.gif
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  634. # [18:33] <MikeSmith> the caption translates as Chill Data is Illin'
  635. # [18:33] <annevk> MikeSmith: nice find, though I'd like a 4.01
  636. # [18:34] <MikeSmith> we can back-formate 4.01 later
  637. # [18:34] <MikeSmith> good brainstorming
  638. # [18:34] <annevk> jetlag is great for that
  639. # [18:34] <MikeSmith> heh
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  642. # [18:35] <annevk> woohoo, GitHub down to zero unread
  643. # [18:35] <annevk> if I missed something, let me know
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  645. # [18:35] <annevk> tomorrow the remaining emails and Bugzilla
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  660. # [19:12] <Domenic> It's good to have you back!! :)
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  665. # [19:25] <Domenic> annevk: JakeA: are cookies multimaps?
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  667. # [19:26] <JakeA> Domenic: I believe the cookie name is a unique id, if that's what you're asking
  668. # [19:26] <Domenic> Hmm I am not entirely sure what I'm asking
  669. # [19:26] <JakeA> :D
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  671. # [19:27] <Domenic> I guess can you have multiple values for the same cookie ID
  672. # [19:28] <boogyman> If I remember correctly some browser implementations differentiate secure only and http cookie definitions with the same id
  673. # [19:29] <Domenic> gross
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  675. # [19:30] <JakeA> I wonder what happens if a subdomain tries to set a cookie with name "hello", when there's already a cookie named "hello" for all subdomains
  676. # [19:30] <JakeA> Whoa, I know nothing about cookies
  677. # [19:30] <boogyman> JakeA: be happy that SW don't send creds by default
  678. # [19:31] <JakeA> :D
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  692. # [19:56] <Domenic> Is it just me or is [NewObject] kind of silly? It feels like there are lots of places that return new objects each time that don't use it...
  693. # [20:02] <TabAtkins> annevk: There are a few ways you can do a definition like that. Having a nice, descriptive linking term like "URL query" is actually pretty good. You can then use local-lt="query" to let yourself link to it with a shorter word in the spec. Or, yeah, <dfn for=URL>query</dfn> also works. I don't have a best practices for this kind of thing yet.
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  695. # [20:09] <TabAtkins> annevk: I'm very curious as to what you're looking at that makes you think that Document is still linking to HTML.
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  698. # [20:18] <annevk> Domenic: not sure, see the RFC?
  699. # [20:19] <annevk> Domenic: [NewObject] can help JIT iirc and is basically a check to see if specification authors paid attention
  700. # [20:19] <annevk> TabAtkins: https://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#interface-document after "interface" it says "Document", that links to HTML
  701. # [20:20] <TabAtkins> annevk: ...no it doesn't.
  702. # [20:20] <TabAtkins> Are you still looking at a cached version?
  703. # [20:21] <annevk> o_O
  704. # [20:21] <annevk> I guess I was
  705. # [20:21] <TabAtkins> lol
  706. # [20:21] <annevk> That never happens...
  707. # [20:22] <TabAtkins> Except when it's most embarrassing.
  708. # [20:22] <annevk> Right, sorry about that
  709. # [20:22] <TabAtkins> It's okay!
  710. # [20:22] <annevk> So I can remove Document from "ignored terms" I guess?
  711. # [20:23] <TabAtkins> Yeah
  712. # [20:23] <TabAtkins> (That just suppresses the linking warnings telling you that there are two plausible targets.)
  713. # [20:23] <stakagi> TabAtkins:I would like to use a suitable iframe external resource according to media query list for mapping use case's level of detail functionality. Can I use picture element or its variant in the future?
  714. # [20:24] <annevk> Guess I should look into the URL stuff a bit more, looks a bit messy to me at the moment
  715. # [20:24] <TabAtkins> Next step is for me to implement the "obsoletes" attribute so DOM can declare that it wins over the HTML and SVG dfns. (The HTML one is extra annoying, since it's just a link to DOM.)
  716. # [20:25] <TabAtkins> stakagi: You don't want to use <picture>; it's defined as a wrapper for <img> only. But it *might* be appropriate as a model for how to design something for level-of-detail.
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  719. # [20:29] <stakagi> TabAtkins:Thanks. What kind of contribution can I do for the design? TabAtkins:Thanks. What kind of contribution can I do for the design? Although I am concentrated on SVGWG from the first, probably it will not be limited to SVG.
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  723. # [20:40] <TabAtkins> stakagi: I dunno, I'm still not sure how to do the LoD stuff correctly. I agree that it's an interesting and worthwhile case, it's unclear what to use for it.
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  725. # [20:47] <stakagi> TabAtkins:I will draw up the description of Level Of Detail which I implemented. Incidentally, it is a combination of a picture element-like function, and a lazyload.js-like function.
  726. # [20:48] <TabAtkins> Yeah, I remember your presentation last year or so, in the Moz Japan offices.
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  728. # [20:54] <stakagi> TabAtkins:Since two functionalities described above (picture and lazyload) have become the topic separately recently, I hope that the examination of Level Of Detail may be able to be performed slowly.
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  756. # [22:08] <boogyman> anyone here know how to contact someone from Mozilla support? https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/ is down (500)
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  759. # [22:15] <caitp> it doesn't look down to me
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  761. # [22:17] <boogyman> interesting, i get a new message, but basically the same code "this service is temporarily unavailable"
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  765. # [22:21] <Ms2ger> boogyman, appears to be up now
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  768. # [22:21] <boogyman> cheers
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  814. # Session Close: Wed Jun 10 00:00:00 2015

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