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- # Session Start: Wed Jun 17 00:00:00 2015
- # Session Ident: #whatwg
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- # [00:28] <Sample> TabAtkins: another quick question. should links within a nav be wrapped in a header tags to make them navigible in the outline? aka, so the outline for the nav section shows both the nav header (if present) and the list of its links
- # [00:28] <Sample> even though the link (headers) may not have actual section content of their own
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- # [03:52] <MikeSmith> https://twitter.com/qubyte/status/610968768760651776
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- # [03:52] <MikeSmith> "Linters are like children... Very naïve, often insightful, and worth taking time and effort to explain things to."
- # [03:55] <MikeSmith> gde33: about your "I was curious if there have been proposals for html to get a nice standard outliner" questions at http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20150616#l-762 yeah there have been proposals
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- # [03:57] <MikeSmith> not necessarily for a way to directly render an outline, but at least for a way for Web content to get access to the outline as an object
- # [03:57] <MikeSmith> a method to get an outline object in script, either for the whole doc or for a subtree
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- # [06:03] <MikeSmith> Hixie: I'm going to disable your W3C bugmail briefly while I mass-change some bugs in an uninteresting way
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- # [06:40] <MikeSmith> Hixie: turned your W3C bugmail back on
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- # [06:56] <annevk> So Safar when seeing a duplicate @ simply returns failure...
- # [06:56] <annevk> I keep writing Safar instead of Safari...
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- # [11:36] <mrflix> I just ran into this problem: in a web-app UI we want the user to input a timeframe in hours in which to responde to a message. The timeframe should be hours up to 72. We’d love to use input#time but its limited to 24 hours max. Any suggestions where I can suggest a change in the standard?
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- # [11:45] <Ms2ger> People seriously want to put HTML in WebApps
- # [11:45] <Ms2ger> ?
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- # [12:07] <Ms2ger> Not one I'll touch with a ten-foot pole
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- # [12:17] <annevk> Rewriting the URL parser is somewhat more work than anticipated
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- # [12:49] <MikeSmith> annevk: you doing the functional thing?
- # [12:49] <annevk> MikeSmith: no, just the rewrite to support relative URLs
- # [12:49] <MikeSmith> ah OK
- # [12:50] <MikeSmith> yeah had forgotten about that
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- # [12:51] <annevk> "just"
- # [12:51] <MikeSmith> heh
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- # [12:51] <MikeSmith> I wouldn't think it would be so much work
- # [12:51] <MikeSmith> well, relative to other stuff at least
- # [12:51] <MikeSmith> (no pun intended)
- # [12:57] <hsivonen> annevk: yay unit tests. I found a spec bug in the big5 decoder thanks to a unit test added for a Gecko bug you had filed.
- # [12:57] <hsivonen> annevk: I'll file a spec bug
- # [12:58] <annevk> yay
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- # [13:01] <annevk> MikeSmith: hehe
- # [13:01] <annevk> MikeSmith: it's a lot of extra conditionals and states
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- # [13:01] <annevk> MikeSmith: and some reorganizing of existing states
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- # [13:11] <JakeA> annevk: fetch(request) - if request's redirect flag is set to "manual", do you remember why we set it to follow rather than return a redirect (perhaps with the location header opaque)
- # [13:11] <hsivonen> annevk: https://github.com/whatwg/encoding/issues/5
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- # [13:25] <JakeA> (will create a github issue)
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- # [13:31] * hsivonen learns that Gecko's encoding converter API is underdocumented, too
- # [13:31] <hsivonen> looking forward to seeing a encoding conversion API that isn't underdocumented
- # [13:32] <annevk> JakeA: because fetch() does not allow setting it to manual
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- # [13:38] <JakeA> annevk: https://github.com/whatwg/fetch/issues/66
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- # [14:27] <JakeA> annevk: "analyzed" - do you mean by a security team?
- # [14:27] <annevk> JakeA: yeah
- # [14:28] <annevk> JakeA: last time exposing status was a no-go
- # [14:28] <annevk> JakeA: and redirects are a constant source of bugs
- # [14:29] <annevk> JakeA: both security and otherwise
- # [14:29] <JakeA> annevk: if that's the only objection here, I'll look into it. I thought it was the redirect location that caused the problems rather than just knowing there was a redirect, but I'll dig in
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- # [14:29] <annevk> JakeA: making them more fragile is not something I'm very happy with
- # [14:29] <annevk> JakeA: well that was a issue we found and why the hole was closed
- # [14:30] <annevk> JakeA: there might very well be others
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- # [14:32] <JakeA> annevk: thanks, I'll run it past people. I'm not against making it opaque btw.
- # [14:32] <JakeA> But a common pattern is hit url -> not logged in? -> redirect to other origin for login
- # [14:32] <JakeA> And we're breaking that
- # [14:33] <annevk> JakeA: I think one of the problems is what happens if you store a redirect in the cache
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- # [14:33] <annevk> JakeA: what happens if you respondWith that redirect in a different context
- # [14:33] <annevk> that's all kinds of new vectors
- # [14:33] <JakeA> annevk: shouldn't be a problem, should it? Would act the same as if you returned Response.redirect(url)
- # [14:34] <annevk> well, except the latter is not privileged
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- # [14:35] <annevk> and doesn't go to a secret URL
- # [14:35] <annevk> e.g. I store that redirect
- # [14:35] <annevk> then I create a DELETE request
- # [14:35] <annevk> and reply that redirect to that DELETE request
- # [14:35] <annevk> that'll fail cross-origin, but same-origin could still be problematic
- # [14:36] <annevk> at least, I hope that'll fail cross-origin...
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- # [14:39] <hsivonen> annevk: It looks like I have push access to whatwg repos. to submit a PR to encoding, should I push a feature branch to the main repo or should I first create a fork under my own account?
- # [14:40] <annevk> hsivonen: main repo should be fine
- # [14:40] <hsivonen> annevk: ok. thanks
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- # [14:40] <annevk> hsivonen: that used to trigger the Twitter bot, but it now filters for the master branch
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- # [14:56] <hsivonen> annevk: OK. I created a PR.
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- # [15:00] <annevk> hsivonen: thanks!
- # [15:00] <annevk> hsivonen: merged and stuff
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- # [15:07] <hsivonen> annevk: thanks
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- # [16:51] <wanderview> JakeA: do you have any thoughts on this one? https://github.com/slightlyoff/ServiceWorker/issues/709
- # [16:51] <wanderview> just wondering if I should try to get it in
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- # [16:56] <JoWie> is that enforce https for new features still a thing?
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- # [17:04] <annevk> JoWie: yes
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- # [17:08] <JakeA> wanderview: replied!
- # [17:10] <wanderview> thanks!
- # [17:10] <JoWie> so would i need a localhost certificate ;)
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- # [17:10] <wanderview> I'll try to get something implemented soon even though its not completely spec'd
- # [17:10] <wanderview> I think localhost should be exempted
- # [17:10] <MikeSmith> I think it is already
- # [17:11] <wanderview> for SW it is, but this is about adding a new restriction... so nothing is really specified... I don't think this mentions localhost in general: https://w3c.github.io/webappsec/specs/powerfulfeatures/#settings-secure
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- # [17:12] <MikeSmith> 「Certain origins are always potentially trustworthy. In particular, UAs MUST treat file URLs and URLs with hostnames names equivalent to "localhost" as potentially trustworthy.」
- # [17:12] <MikeSmith> https://w3c.github.io/webappsec/specs/powerfulfeatures/#is-origin-trustworthy
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- # [17:15] <wanderview> ah, cool... thanks
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- # [17:15] <annevk> JoWie: localhost is whitelisted
- # [17:15] <annevk> JoWie: did you not read the threads?
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- # [17:16] <JoWie> i read it a long while back
- # [17:16] <annevk> wanderview++
- # [17:16] <JoWie> but i never heard from it afterwards
- # [17:16] <annevk> Better start ordering some certificates, or wait until September 14 I guess
- # [17:17] <JoWie> i rarely use https because you have to renew them
- # [17:19] <JoWie> i just hope i do not accidentally use one of the newer features and then only find out alter i need a cert
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- # [17:19] <JoWie> or just bug people to modify their whitelist :p
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- # [17:21] <annevk> JoWie: I recommend doing some reading then, something as basic as HTTP/2 requires it
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- # [17:25] <JoWie> i thought http 2 had opportunistic ssl
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- # [17:34] <annevk> Firefox implements that, unfortunately, but fortunately, nobody else does
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- # [17:48] <wanderview> MikeSmith: annevk: does this address the case of http doc creates https iframe which creates https SharedWorker? seems SharedWorker doesn't have a strict parent to trace back through: https://w3c.github.io/webappsec/specs/powerfulfeatures/#settings-secure
- # [17:50] <annevk> wanderview: SharedWorker can have multiple parents...
- # [17:51] <annevk> wanderview: I guess using the initial parent or all parents would be an okay solution...
- # [17:51] <annevk> wanderview: I'd somewhat prefer all if that's not a major perf issue
- # [17:52] <annevk> wanderview: although I guess all is not really an option as that would make it change over time
- # [17:52] <annevk> wanderview: probably the one that created the SharedWorker then
- # [17:52] <wanderview> annevk: I think the issue with that is it could oscillate between trusted to untrusted to trusted again as docs attach/detach
- # [17:52] <wanderview> annevk: I think sicking has requested that SharedWorker not base anything on doc at all, since the docs can change over time
- # [17:52] <annevk> so you determine securedness on creation and store that
- # [17:53] <annevk> the initial doc can't
- # [17:53] <wanderview> annevk: so if something else for that origin has made SharedWorker already... then http doc->https iframe->SharedWorker works... but if nothing else has made the worker yet, then you get the restriction? that will probably be a bit magical for people to understand
- # [17:53] <annevk> and I'm okay with docs changing
- # [17:53] <annevk> I'm just saying that we set this bit on creation and keep it around until the sharedworker is destroyed
- # [17:54] <wanderview> annevk: I understand that... but from the call site in the http doc->https iframe the behavior will be inconsistent
- # [17:54] <wanderview> and I guess also lets the GC of SharedWorkers be observed
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- # [17:55] <wanderview> annevk: I guess I can open an issue in the powerfeatures repo
- # [17:56] <annevk> wanderview: maybe sharedworker should simply not work in such a mixed environment?
- # [17:56] <wanderview> yea
- # [17:56] <annevk> wanderview: that would be the best way out here I think
- # [17:56] <annevk> wanderview: require a same-scheme parent chain
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- # [17:59] <wanderview> annevk: I wrote this: https://github.com/w3c/webappsec/issues/406
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- # [18:04] <annevk> https://blog.mozilla.org/luke/2015/06/17/webassembly/
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- # [18:48] <JonathanNeal> https://github.com/jonathantneal/postcss-nesting @TabAtkins I hope I got it right. Getting the parent reference to work was a pain. Would you be able to dumb down how @media works for me? The spec doesn’t give an example.
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- # [19:30] <annevk> "As another example, the mobile Web depends on your browser downloading font resources without checking the CORS headers (as per spec) — we’ve had to change to WebKit behavior in our mobile browsers to make the mobile Web work."
- # [19:30] <annevk> http://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2015/06/17/building-a-more-interoperable-web-with-microsoft-edge/
- # [19:30] <annevk> Well that's interesting
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- # [19:42] <annevk> hsivonen: your latest big5 patch still mentions the GitHub issue
- # [19:42] <annevk> hsivonen: not a big deal I guess, but you might want to remove that reference locally
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- # [19:43] <Domenic> meanwhile i feel like there was movement in chrome to try to enforce the cors header. not sure it went anywhere though.
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- # [19:46] <hsivonen> annevk: I'll remove the reference if I respin the patch or, alternatively, in the encoder patch
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- # [19:50] <annevk> Domenic: yeah, TabAtkins mentioned that at some point
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- # [19:54] <annevk> MikeSmith: more URL tests: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1909
- # [19:54] <annevk> Sebmaster: ^
- # [19:54] <annevk> The URL Standard just had a major change landed. If you encounter bugs please tell me. It's likely...
- # [19:55] <Sebmaster> annevk: havent had time to integrate the changes yet and its kinda late
- # [19:55] <Sebmaster> but ill get to it tomorrow
- # [19:55] <annevk> Sebmaster: no rush
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- # [20:18] <TabAtkins> annevk, Domenic: I'll ping Kenji about that again today.
- # [20:18] <TabAtkins> JonathanNeal: What needs explaining?
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- # [20:22] <JonathanNeal> TabAtkins: I’m unsure what happens when @media is nested.
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- # [20:24] <TabAtkins> The spec doesn't add any new @media nesting abilities
- # [20:25] <JonathanNeal> .foo { { @media (min-width: 768px) { /* so this is just gonna fail, right? */ } }
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- # [20:27] <TabAtkins> Under current specs + Nesting, yeah.
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- # [20:27] <TabAtkins> You don't need Nesting Block for at-rules anyway.
- # [20:28] <TabAtkins> (I'm still considering getting rid of the Nesting Block, and using plain & at the start, or a new @nest rule when it's not at the start.)
- # [20:28] <TabAtkins> So for most cases it'd be the same as Sass.
- # [20:29] <TabAtkins> Technically, we only need *anything* special to handle the case of a selector starting with a type selector.
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- # [20:30] <TabAtkins> But I think that's too fine of a distinction to capture directly. The "starts with &" criteria is easier.
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- # [21:14] <JonathanNeal> TabAtkins: are you thinking of refreshing the syntax?
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- # [21:21] <TabAtkins> Yeah
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- # [21:37] <JonathanNeal> How does the new version work, it requires & somewhere before the {?
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- # [23:58] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@c-67-169-40-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
- # Session Close: Thu Jun 18 00:00:00 2015
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