/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2015-06-17 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Jun 17 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  16. # [00:28] <Sample> TabAtkins: another quick question. should links within a nav be wrapped in a header tags to make them navigible in the outline? aka, so the outline for the nav section shows both the nav header (if present) and the list of its links
  17. # [00:28] <Sample> even though the link (headers) may not have actual section content of their own
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  74. # [03:52] <MikeSmith> https://twitter.com/qubyte/status/610968768760651776
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  76. # [03:52] <MikeSmith> "Linters are like children... Very naïve, often insightful, and worth taking time and effort to explain things to."
  77. # [03:55] <MikeSmith> gde33: about your "I was curious if there have been proposals for html to get a nice standard outliner" questions at http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20150616#l-762 yeah there have been proposals
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  79. # [03:57] <MikeSmith> not necessarily for a way to directly render an outline, but at least for a way for Web content to get access to the outline as an object
  80. # [03:57] <MikeSmith> a method to get an outline object in script, either for the whole doc or for a subtree
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  120. # [06:03] <MikeSmith> Hixie: I'm going to disable your W3C bugmail briefly while I mass-change some bugs in an uninteresting way
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  136. # [06:40] <MikeSmith> Hixie: turned your W3C bugmail back on
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  141. # [06:56] <annevk> So Safar when seeing a duplicate @ simply returns failure...
  142. # [06:56] <annevk> I keep writing Safar instead of Safari...
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  202. # [11:36] <mrflix> I just ran into this problem: in a web-app UI we want the user to input a timeframe in hours in which to responde to a message. The timeframe should be hours up to 72. We’d love to use input#time but its limited to 24 hours max. Any suggestions where I can suggest a change in the standard?
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  207. # [11:45] <Ms2ger> People seriously want to put HTML in WebApps
  208. # [11:45] <Ms2ger> ?
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  214. # [12:05] <jgraham> Ms2ger: One group to rule them all
  215. # [12:07] <Ms2ger> Not one I'll touch with a ten-foot pole
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  221. # [12:17] <annevk> Rewriting the URL parser is somewhat more work than anticipated
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  231. # [12:49] <MikeSmith> annevk: you doing the functional thing?
  232. # [12:49] <annevk> MikeSmith: no, just the rewrite to support relative URLs
  233. # [12:49] <MikeSmith> ah OK
  234. # [12:50] <MikeSmith> yeah had forgotten about that
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  236. # [12:51] <annevk> "just"
  237. # [12:51] <MikeSmith> heh
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  239. # [12:51] <MikeSmith> I wouldn't think it would be so much work
  240. # [12:51] <MikeSmith> well, relative to other stuff at least
  241. # [12:51] <MikeSmith> (no pun intended)
  242. # [12:57] <hsivonen> annevk: yay unit tests. I found a spec bug in the big5 decoder thanks to a unit test added for a Gecko bug you had filed.
  243. # [12:57] <hsivonen> annevk: I'll file a spec bug
  244. # [12:58] <annevk> yay
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  246. # [13:01] <annevk> MikeSmith: hehe
  247. # [13:01] <annevk> MikeSmith: it's a lot of extra conditionals and states
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  249. # [13:01] <annevk> MikeSmith: and some reorganizing of existing states
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  253. # [13:11] <JakeA> annevk: fetch(request) - if request's redirect flag is set to "manual", do you remember why we set it to follow rather than return a redirect (perhaps with the location header opaque)
  254. # [13:11] <hsivonen> annevk: https://github.com/whatwg/encoding/issues/5
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  259. # [13:25] <JakeA> (will create a github issue)
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  263. # [13:31] * hsivonen learns that Gecko's encoding converter API is underdocumented, too
  264. # [13:31] <hsivonen> looking forward to seeing a encoding conversion API that isn't underdocumented
  265. # [13:32] <annevk> JakeA: because fetch() does not allow setting it to manual
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  268. # [13:38] <JakeA> annevk: https://github.com/whatwg/fetch/issues/66
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  277. # [14:27] <JakeA> annevk: "analyzed" - do you mean by a security team?
  278. # [14:27] <annevk> JakeA: yeah
  279. # [14:28] <annevk> JakeA: last time exposing status was a no-go
  280. # [14:28] <annevk> JakeA: and redirects are a constant source of bugs
  281. # [14:29] <annevk> JakeA: both security and otherwise
  282. # [14:29] <JakeA> annevk: if that's the only objection here, I'll look into it. I thought it was the redirect location that caused the problems rather than just knowing there was a redirect, but I'll dig in
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  284. # [14:29] <annevk> JakeA: making them more fragile is not something I'm very happy with
  285. # [14:29] <annevk> JakeA: well that was a issue we found and why the hole was closed
  286. # [14:30] <annevk> JakeA: there might very well be others
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  288. # [14:32] <JakeA> annevk: thanks, I'll run it past people. I'm not against making it opaque btw.
  289. # [14:32] <JakeA> But a common pattern is hit url -> not logged in? -> redirect to other origin for login
  290. # [14:32] <JakeA> And we're breaking that
  291. # [14:33] <annevk> JakeA: I think one of the problems is what happens if you store a redirect in the cache
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  293. # [14:33] <annevk> JakeA: what happens if you respondWith that redirect in a different context
  294. # [14:33] <annevk> that's all kinds of new vectors
  295. # [14:33] <JakeA> annevk: shouldn't be a problem, should it? Would act the same as if you returned Response.redirect(url)
  296. # [14:34] <annevk> well, except the latter is not privileged
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  298. # [14:35] <annevk> and doesn't go to a secret URL
  299. # [14:35] <annevk> e.g. I store that redirect
  300. # [14:35] <annevk> then I create a DELETE request
  301. # [14:35] <annevk> and reply that redirect to that DELETE request
  302. # [14:35] <annevk> that'll fail cross-origin, but same-origin could still be problematic
  303. # [14:36] <annevk> at least, I hope that'll fail cross-origin...
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  307. # [14:39] <hsivonen> annevk: It looks like I have push access to whatwg repos. to submit a PR to encoding, should I push a feature branch to the main repo or should I first create a fork under my own account?
  308. # [14:40] <annevk> hsivonen: main repo should be fine
  309. # [14:40] <hsivonen> annevk: ok. thanks
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  311. # [14:40] <annevk> hsivonen: that used to trigger the Twitter bot, but it now filters for the master branch
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  323. # [14:56] <hsivonen> annevk: OK. I created a PR.
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  327. # [15:00] <annevk> hsivonen: thanks!
  328. # [15:00] <annevk> hsivonen: merged and stuff
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  333. # [15:07] <hsivonen> annevk: thanks
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  356. # [16:51] <wanderview> JakeA: do you have any thoughts on this one? https://github.com/slightlyoff/ServiceWorker/issues/709
  357. # [16:51] <wanderview> just wondering if I should try to get it in
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  359. # [16:56] <JoWie> is that enforce https for new features still a thing?
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  370. # [17:04] <annevk> JoWie: yes
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  372. # [17:08] <JakeA> wanderview: replied!
  373. # [17:10] <wanderview> thanks!
  374. # [17:10] <JoWie> so would i need a localhost certificate ;)
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  376. # [17:10] <wanderview> I'll try to get something implemented soon even though its not completely spec'd
  377. # [17:10] <wanderview> I think localhost should be exempted
  378. # [17:10] <MikeSmith> I think it is already
  379. # [17:11] <wanderview> for SW it is, but this is about adding a new restriction... so nothing is really specified... I don't think this mentions localhost in general: https://w3c.github.io/webappsec/specs/powerfulfeatures/#settings-secure
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  383. # [17:12] <MikeSmith> 「Certain origins are always potentially trustworthy. In particular, UAs MUST treat file URLs and URLs with hostnames names equivalent to "localhost" as potentially trustworthy.」
  384. # [17:12] <MikeSmith> https://w3c.github.io/webappsec/specs/powerfulfeatures/#is-origin-trustworthy
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  386. # [17:15] <wanderview> ah, cool... thanks
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  388. # [17:15] <annevk> JoWie: localhost is whitelisted
  389. # [17:15] <annevk> JoWie: did you not read the threads?
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  391. # [17:16] <JoWie> i read it a long while back
  392. # [17:16] <annevk> wanderview++
  393. # [17:16] <JoWie> but i never heard from it afterwards
  394. # [17:16] <annevk> Better start ordering some certificates, or wait until September 14 I guess
  395. # [17:17] <JoWie> i rarely use https because you have to renew them
  396. # [17:19] <JoWie> i just hope i do not accidentally use one of the newer features and then only find out alter i need a cert
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  399. # [17:19] <JoWie> or just bug people to modify their whitelist :p
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  401. # [17:21] <annevk> JoWie: I recommend doing some reading then, something as basic as HTTP/2 requires it
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  404. # [17:25] <JoWie> i thought http 2 had opportunistic ssl
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  413. # [17:34] <annevk> Firefox implements that, unfortunately, but fortunately, nobody else does
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  416. # [17:48] <wanderview> MikeSmith: annevk: does this address the case of http doc creates https iframe which creates https SharedWorker? seems SharedWorker doesn't have a strict parent to trace back through: https://w3c.github.io/webappsec/specs/powerfulfeatures/#settings-secure
  417. # [17:50] <annevk> wanderview: SharedWorker can have multiple parents...
  418. # [17:51] <annevk> wanderview: I guess using the initial parent or all parents would be an okay solution...
  419. # [17:51] <annevk> wanderview: I'd somewhat prefer all if that's not a major perf issue
  420. # [17:52] <annevk> wanderview: although I guess all is not really an option as that would make it change over time
  421. # [17:52] <annevk> wanderview: probably the one that created the SharedWorker then
  422. # [17:52] <wanderview> annevk: I think the issue with that is it could oscillate between trusted to untrusted to trusted again as docs attach/detach
  423. # [17:52] <wanderview> annevk: I think sicking has requested that SharedWorker not base anything on doc at all, since the docs can change over time
  424. # [17:52] <annevk> so you determine securedness on creation and store that
  425. # [17:53] <annevk> the initial doc can't
  426. # [17:53] <wanderview> annevk: so if something else for that origin has made SharedWorker already... then http doc->https iframe->SharedWorker works... but if nothing else has made the worker yet, then you get the restriction? that will probably be a bit magical for people to understand
  427. # [17:53] <annevk> and I'm okay with docs changing
  428. # [17:53] <annevk> I'm just saying that we set this bit on creation and keep it around until the sharedworker is destroyed
  429. # [17:54] <wanderview> annevk: I understand that... but from the call site in the http doc->https iframe the behavior will be inconsistent
  430. # [17:54] <wanderview> and I guess also lets the GC of SharedWorkers be observed
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  433. # [17:55] <wanderview> annevk: I guess I can open an issue in the powerfeatures repo
  434. # [17:56] <annevk> wanderview: maybe sharedworker should simply not work in such a mixed environment?
  435. # [17:56] <wanderview> yea
  436. # [17:56] <annevk> wanderview: that would be the best way out here I think
  437. # [17:56] <annevk> wanderview: require a same-scheme parent chain
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  439. # [17:59] <wanderview> annevk: I wrote this: https://github.com/w3c/webappsec/issues/406
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  444. # [18:04] <annevk> https://blog.mozilla.org/luke/2015/06/17/webassembly/
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  469. # [18:48] <JonathanNeal> https://github.com/jonathantneal/postcss-nesting @TabAtkins I hope I got it right. Getting the parent reference to work was a pain. Would you be able to dumb down how @media works for me? The spec doesn’t give an example.
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  491. # [19:30] <annevk> "As another example, the mobile Web depends on your browser downloading font resources without checking the CORS headers (as per spec) — we’ve had to change to WebKit behavior in our mobile browsers to make the mobile Web work."
  492. # [19:30] <annevk> http://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2015/06/17/building-a-more-interoperable-web-with-microsoft-edge/
  493. # [19:30] <annevk> Well that's interesting
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  503. # [19:42] <annevk> hsivonen: your latest big5 patch still mentions the GitHub issue
  504. # [19:42] <annevk> hsivonen: not a big deal I guess, but you might want to remove that reference locally
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  507. # [19:43] <Domenic> meanwhile i feel like there was movement in chrome to try to enforce the cors header. not sure it went anywhere though.
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  511. # [19:46] <hsivonen> annevk: I'll remove the reference if I respin the patch or, alternatively, in the encoder patch
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  517. # [19:50] <annevk> Domenic: yeah, TabAtkins mentioned that at some point
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  521. # [19:54] <annevk> MikeSmith: more URL tests: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1909
  522. # [19:54] <annevk> Sebmaster: ^
  523. # [19:54] <annevk> The URL Standard just had a major change landed. If you encounter bugs please tell me. It's likely...
  524. # [19:55] <Sebmaster> annevk: havent had time to integrate the changes yet and its kinda late
  525. # [19:55] <Sebmaster> but ill get to it tomorrow
  526. # [19:55] <annevk> Sebmaster: no rush
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  543. # [20:18] <TabAtkins> annevk, Domenic: I'll ping Kenji about that again today.
  544. # [20:18] <TabAtkins> JonathanNeal: What needs explaining?
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  548. # [20:22] <JonathanNeal> TabAtkins: I’m unsure what happens when @media is nested.
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  550. # [20:24] <TabAtkins> The spec doesn't add any new @media nesting abilities
  551. # [20:25] <JonathanNeal> .foo { { @media (min-width: 768px) { /* so this is just gonna fail, right? */ } }
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  553. # [20:27] <TabAtkins> Under current specs + Nesting, yeah.
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  555. # [20:27] <TabAtkins> You don't need Nesting Block for at-rules anyway.
  556. # [20:28] <TabAtkins> (I'm still considering getting rid of the Nesting Block, and using plain & at the start, or a new @nest rule when it's not at the start.)
  557. # [20:28] <TabAtkins> So for most cases it'd be the same as Sass.
  558. # [20:29] <TabAtkins> Technically, we only need *anything* special to handle the case of a selector starting with a type selector.
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  560. # [20:30] <TabAtkins> But I think that's too fine of a distinction to capture directly. The "starts with &" criteria is easier.
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  586. # [21:14] <JonathanNeal> TabAtkins: are you thinking of refreshing the syntax?
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  590. # [21:21] <TabAtkins> Yeah
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  597. # [21:37] <JonathanNeal> How does the new version work, it requires & somewhere before the {?
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  612. # [22:34] * ap_ is now known as ap
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  628. # [23:02] <David17Obbatala> hola
  629. # [23:02] <botie> niihau, David17Obbatala
  630. # [23:03] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  631. # [23:05] <David17Obbatala> niihau botie
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  636. # [23:15] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle_
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  646. # [23:52] * Quits: ehsan_ (~ehsan@2001:450:1f:224:f0de:adb0:82ff:df09) (Quit: Leaving...)
  647. # [23:55] * Quits: bradleymeck (~bradleyme@cpe-70-114-246-88.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: bradleymeck)
  648. # [23:56] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@17.245.26.86)
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  650. # Session Close: Thu Jun 18 00:00:00 2015

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