/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2015-10-16 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Oct 16 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  37. # [01:29] <MikeSmith> The move to the new WG was not just a W3C team preference; it was discussed and planned with quite a lot of input/requirements from various parties. In particular, a number of different people from all the browser-engine projects had a voice in helping to determine what the plans would be.
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  45. # [01:30] <MikeSmith> TabAtkins: You can ask internally on the Chrome team for more insight on why/how the particular makeup on the new group was arrived at
  46. # [01:31] <MikeSmith> in the end, as usual, not everybody who took the time to help get the details worked out was completely happy with the result
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  51. # [01:32] <MikeSmith> but I think plh did a pretty great job of synthesizing all the input/requirements he was given to work with, and coming up with some balance
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  63. # [01:33] <MikeSmith> anyway, the WebApps WG was around in the form it had for 8 years or whatever, and in mostly the same form for a couple years before that, as the Web APIs WG
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  73. # [01:35] <MikeSmith> so it was bordering on 10 years of life, and was sorta due anyway for having some assumptions re-examined, and refinements made
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  78. # [01:38] <MikeSmith> and simply doing another charter extension of the WebApps WG as not an option, and we needed to fully recharter it anyway; and re-chartering a group in practice basically amounts to creating a new group (since among other things, as gsnedders mentioned, it requires all the participants to do the steps of (re)joining after its launched)
  79. # [01:39] <MikeSmith> anyway, fwiw, I think plh got it all right and the group is going to turn out to be at least as useful a place to get work done as the WebApps WG was
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  83. # [01:43] <TabAtkins> MikeSmith: All right. I just stumbled across the announcement, and there was no mention whatsoever of the reasoning.
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  551. # [04:30] <MikeSmith> my Canary on OS X is failing to update for the last couple days. Wondering if others are having the same problem
  552. # [04:31] <MikeSmith> normally I would just give up and build it from sources, but I have XCode7 installed, and that currently breaks clang compiling of the blink code all over the place
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  576. # [06:02] <caitp> MikeSmith: that sounds like the issue of not having the OSX 10.10 sdk, probably
  577. # [06:03] <caitp> but no, not having that issue here
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  612. # [09:55] <MikeSmith> caitp: yeah I've since re-tried the build and it actually ran to completion and I've got a new Chromium binary so I'm all good now
  613. # [09:57] <MikeSmith> I had basically been away for an entire week, til today, so I guess all the fixes got made in the mean time
  614. # [09:59] <MikeSmith> caitp: for historical interest, https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=517914 (resolved Oct 13)
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  625. # [10:29] <philipj> annevk: do you know how arangana of File API fame is? https://github.com/w3c/FileAPI/commit/613b4d5b679cc651184275d784c1d74e078c3fdf
  626. # [10:29] <annevk> philipj: I suspect Arun
  627. # [10:30] <philipj> annevk: https://github.com/arunranga that is?
  628. # [10:30] <annevk> philipj: yes
  629. # [10:30] <philipj> ok, thanks!
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  633. # [10:33] <philipj> annevk: the context is https://github.com/w3c/webrtc-pc/issues/324#issuecomment-148652950
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  643. # [11:00] <MikeSmith> philipj: Arun is a wonderfully reasonable and responsive guy. He's even around on this channel sometimes.
  644. # [11:02] <MikeSmith> And he is somewhat actively contributing recently to discussion on some new spec proposal (though I forget right now which one), so I know he is around
  645. # [11:02] <MikeSmith> at least he was a week or so ago before I took my golf vacation
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  665. # [12:26] <gsnedders> Is microdata essentially entirely dead now?
  666. # [12:27] <gsnedders> oh, it's just gone from the W3C spec?
  667. # [12:27] <jgraham> The API is dead
  668. # [12:27] <jgraham> The markup is less dead
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  670. # [12:34] <gsnedders> Given everything that supports microdata also supports RDFa, as far as I can tell, and some things *only* support RDFa, it seems dubious to me as to why I should use it.
  671. # [12:35] <jgraham> So that you don't have to use RDFa?
  672. # [12:35] <jgraham> I mean that's the value proposition
  673. # [12:35] <jgraham> If you don't think that's valuable then you aren't going to like it
  674. # [12:35] <gsnedders> RDFa really isn't that bad if you use a simple subset, though…
  675. # [12:36] <gsnedders> esp. now RDFa Lite is supported everywhere
  676. # [12:37] <jgraham> Shrug
  677. # [12:37] <gsnedders> I agree the full thing is implementation hell, but the reality is that it's supported everywhere and microdata isn't.
  678. # [12:37] <jgraham> They all solve a problem I have never had
  679. # [12:37] <gsnedders> (the problem in question here is "getting 'Rich Snippets' on Google search")
  680. # [12:37] <gsnedders> And "reasonable auto-link descriptions on Facebook"
  681. # [12:37] <gsnedders> And things along this line.
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  683. # [12:50] <gsnedders> oh god
  684. # [12:51] <gsnedders> ended up looking at the *full* RDFa spec
  685. # [12:51] <gsnedders> I'm so lost.
  686. # [12:51] <gsnedders> And I'm someone who's done a fair bit with RDF previously…
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  704. # [13:51] <annevk> That's why we have Microdata
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  742. # [16:01] <smaug____> annevk: "Apply the URL parser to url, with base as the base URL, with encoding as the encoding." means what
  743. # [16:02] <smaug____> is it about "basic URL parser"in https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#concept-basic-url-parser ?
  744. # [16:02] <smaug____> or something else
  745. # [16:02] <smaug____> hmm, maybe not, since HTML spec uses both "URL parser" and "basic URL parser"
  746. # [16:03] <smaug____> and " basic URL parser" takes and input, and url and base are optionals
  747. # [16:04] <gsnedders> smaug____: https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#url-parsing
  748. # [16:05] <smaug____> hmm, it takes input
  749. # [16:05] <smaug____> I guess "url" maps to that "input"
  750. # [16:06] <gsnedders> yeah
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  757. # [16:36] <annevk> smaug____: is URL parser not xref'd?
  758. # [16:46] <smaug____> I didn't see a link
  759. # [16:47] <smaug____> there was a link to "basic URL parser"
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  761. # [16:54] <annevk> smaug____: anyway, URL parser is https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#concept-url-parser
  762. # [16:54] <annevk> smaug____: which takes a url, base URL, and an encoding
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  764. # [16:55] <smaug____> it takes "input"
  765. # [16:55] <smaug____> but something else is passing "url"
  766. # [16:55] <smaug____> so that was just a bit misleading, silly me
  767. # [16:56] <annevk> smaug____: I see, still need to update HTML a bit around URL handling
  768. # [16:56] * smaug____ almost understands how push/replaceState should behave per spec ;)
  769. # [16:56] <Ms2ger> How about you write a couple hundred tests? :)
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  774. # [17:08] <annevk> Ms2ger: what is the frameURI business in https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/blob/master/html/browsers/origin/cross-origin-objects/win-documentdomain.html?
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  776. # [17:10] <Ms2ger> No clue
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  778. # [17:12] <annevk> "Addressed Ms2ger's review comments."
  779. # [17:12] <annevk> hmm
  780. # [17:13] <annevk> Ms2ger: https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/2116
  781. # [17:13] <annevk> I don't understand assigning window.frames in https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/blob/master/html/browsers/origin/cross-origin-objects/frame.html either
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  783. # [17:14] <Ms2ger> Ask bholley?
  784. # [17:14] <Ms2ger> Or bz
  785. # [17:16] <annevk> I guess I have to :-/
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  787. # [17:16] <annevk> I already have some outstanding questions
  788. # [17:16] <annevk> This is a bit hard
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  843. # [20:07] <Domenic> So the correct type for representing timestamps is unsigned long long?
  844. # [20:07] <TabAtkins> Isn't it DOMTimestamp
  845. # [20:07] <TabAtkins> ?
  846. # [20:07] <Domenic> I think that is changing to be offset from page load?
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  848. # [20:08] <Domenic> No, I am wrong
  849. # [20:08] <gsnedders> https://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#interface-htmlcollection has what I'd expect to be a link to "Elements" at the start of the note… and it's not xref'd
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  851. # [20:10] <TabAtkins> Yeah, the Elements definition is written in pseudo-ES6/IDL, rather than actual WebIDL, so it's not auto-marked-up by Bikeshed, and Anne hasn't manually marked it up.
  852. # [20:10] <gsnedders> well you guys suck!
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  858. # [20:35] <TabAtkins> Ugh, I still hate the "in parallel, do..." construction. Every time I see it, it looks like it's telling me to shard out the nested operations in parallel.
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  865. # [21:03] <Domenic> Anyone have examples of APIs that use an abbreviation as their first word in a method or property?
  866. # [21:03] <Domenic> So far all I've found is document.URL
  867. # [21:04] <Domenic> OK, document.fgColor, bgColor
  868. # [21:04] <Domenic> cssElementMap
  869. # [21:04] <Domenic> I conclude lowercase
  870. # [21:05] <Domenic> Nobody seems to implement cssElementMap, we should probably kill that
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  878. # [21:33] <annevk> Domenic: yes, lowercase for properties
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  893. # [22:10] <bholley> annevk: let's talk here
  894. # [22:10] <bholley> annevk: what do you mean 'corresponds to'?
  895. # [22:10] <bholley> annevk: do you mean 'describes'?
  896. # [22:11] <bholley> annevk: or do you mean 'is an object in the scope of'
  897. # [22:11] <annevk> bholley: hmm, I guess it describes the active document
  898. # [22:11] <bholley> annevk: exactly
  899. # [22:11] <annevk> bholley: which could be cross-origin
  900. # [22:11] <bholley> annevk: that's the weird thing about location
  901. # [22:11] <bholley> annevk: which is why same-origin Location objects still need security checks
  902. # [22:11] <bholley> annevk: because you might not be the active document
  903. # [22:11] <bholley> annevk: but that's distinct from how we handle cross-origin objects
  904. # [22:12] <annevk> bholley: is the only difference the prototype stuff and expandos and some things around enumerability?
  905. # [22:12] <bholley> annevk: difference between what and what?
  906. # [22:13] <annevk> bholley: between same-origin Location object describing "cross-origin active document" and cross-origin Location object
  907. # [22:13] <bholley> annevk: they are different "concepts"
  908. # [22:13] <bholley> annevk: which might be confusing you
  909. # [22:13] <bholley> annevk: the "concept" is not "the URL of the browsing context"
  910. # [22:13] <bholley> annevk: the "concept" is "the Location interface associated with a given Window"
  911. # [22:14] <bholley> annevk: which, for bizarre reasons, doesn't necessarily describe that window
  912. # [22:14] <bholley> annevk: but for our purposes, two Location objects that describe the same browsing context are totally distinct
  913. # [22:14] <bholley> annevk: this is web-observable, FWIW
  914. # [22:15] <bholley> annevk: grab xoIframe.contentWindow.location, navigate it to something else, grab the location again
  915. # [22:15] <bholley> annevk: they're two different objects
  916. # [22:15] <annevk> sure, Location objects are minted per Document
  917. # [22:15] <bholley> right
  918. # [22:16] <bholley> annevk: and you can only read the information if the associated Document is same-origin _and_ the Document's BC's active Document is same-origin
  919. # [22:16] <bholley> as in, we take a union of the two security restrictions
  920. # [22:17] <annevk> makes sense
  921. # [22:18] <annevk> the "concept" thing is a bit weird, since the cross-origin wrapper will forward behavior and at that point we basically expect that behavior to be JavaScript-object-like
  922. # [22:18] <annevk> or something JavaScript can call into
  923. # [22:19] <bholley> annevk: please don't spec this in terms of wrappers
  924. # [22:20] <annevk> bholley: html5-cross-origin-objects is basically a description of proxy objects
  925. # [22:20] <annevk> bholley: I guess I shouldn't use the word wrapper for proxy, but in mind they're somewhat interchangeable
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  947. # [23:49] <nox> annevk: The URL spec says: "A URLSearchParams object’s update steps are to set url object’s url’s query …" and "A URLSearchParams object has an associated url object, which is initially null.",
  948. # [23:50] <nox> annevk: but it also says "A URL object has an associated url (a URL) and query object (a URLSearchParams object)."
  949. # [23:50] <nox> So, can URLSearchParams' "url object" be something else than an instance of the interface named URL?
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  953. # Session Close: Sat Oct 17 00:00:00 2015

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