/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2015-10-19 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Oct 19 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  107. # [09:16] <annevk> nox: should always be 1:1
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  109. # [09:20] <nox> annevk: I mean null vs empty value.
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  111. # [09:21] <annevk> nox: oh sorry
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  113. # [09:21] <annevk> nox: I'm not sure
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  115. # [09:21] <annevk> nox: maybe that would be nice, dunno
  116. # [09:22] <annevk> nox: seems like it might be tricky to represent it being the empty string then
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  128. # [09:33] <nox> annevk: Is there actually any difference in how the two are handled or serialised?
  129. # [09:34] <annevk> nox: yeah, the difference is whether you see a ? in the URL
  130. # [09:35] <nox> Oh.
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  136. # [10:03] <zcorpan> hello whatwg
  137. # [10:03] <MikeSmith> hola zcorpan
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  139. # [10:05] <Ms2ger> Morning
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  211. # [15:48] <annevk> Domenic: formatting in https://streams.spec.whatwg.org/#get-viewed-array-buffer seems wrong
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  234. # [16:53] <wanderview> JakeA: previously you were telling me you thought e.respondWith() should not timeout the SW like waitUntil() does
  235. # [16:53] <wanderview> JakeA: what about if the script does e.respondWith(new Promise())... a promise that never resolves... how does chrome handle that?
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  238. # [16:58] <wanderview> JakeA: of course, now I'm trying to remember why we wanted long running respondWith() anyway
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  257. # [17:47] <annevk> Domenic: so the approach for Location seems to be to just define an object and override all the internal methods somehow
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  259. # [17:47] <Domenic> annevk: that seems totally legit. It's an exotic object.
  260. # [17:48] <Domenic> annevk: would be implemented with a Proxy in self-hosted land
  261. # [17:48] <annevk> Domenic: however, is there some way to use the default behavior for an internal method from the overriding variant?
  262. # [17:48] <Domenic> annevk: yes, let me see if I can find some prose that does that.
  263. # [17:48] <annevk> Domenic: e.g. [[Delete]] does the ordinary [[Delete]] behavior for "same-origin", but simply throws otherwise
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  265. # [17:49] <Domenic> annevk: well maybe there is an OrdinaryDelete etc.... here is how Array delegates to OrdinaryDefineOwnProperty: https://tc39.github.io/ecma262/#sec-array-exotic-objects-defineownproperty-p-desc
  266. # [17:50] <Domenic> annevk: it doesn't look like everything is factored to allow this though
  267. # [17:50] <Domenic> which is something we could in theory pull request to ES for
  268. # [17:50] <annevk> okay
  269. # [17:51] <annevk> that would make sense perhaps
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  271. # [17:51] <Domenic> But it also seems legit to say something like "return the result of applying the [[GetOwnProperty]]() method for ordinary objects to O" or something
  272. # [17:52] <annevk> If "same-origin", then TODOOrdinaryDelete(this, P).
  273. # [17:52] <annevk> Hmm yeah, was wondering about that
  274. # [17:53] <Domenic> I'll open an issue
  275. # [17:53] <Domenic> Maybe Allen will have advice
  276. # [17:53] <Domenic> Or maybe he'll be like "yeah we should have factored them all out"
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  278. # [17:57] <annevk> So next is the own properties... W should probably have a heading per thing. "set href" etc. However, maybe they shouldn't really be properties but just behave as such from the outside?
  279. # [17:57] <Domenic> Hmm, if you are redefining [[Set]]/[[Get]] then yeah, your object isn't going to have properties really
  280. # [17:57] <annevk> Especially with the "A Caller-Appropriate Cross-Origin Representation of a Method, Getter, or Setter" stuff defining properties directly seems kind of pointless since their behavior needs to be wrapped
  281. # [17:58] <Domenic> Yeah I think each of your internal method definitions is going to have some sort of lookup.
  282. # [17:59] <Domenic> If P is "href", return X. If P is "origin", return Y.
  283. # [17:59] <Domenic> Maybe use a table or a <ul class="switch"> or whatever
  284. # [18:02] <Domenic> annevk: an alternate idea approach for all this is that if there happens to be a real underlying object (or several), you can dispatch to it
  285. # [18:02] <Domenic> annevk: so "If flag X is set, throw. Otherwise, return SetPrototypeOf(targetObj, V)"
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  287. # [18:04] <annevk> [[SetPrototypeOf]] always happens to throw
  288. # [18:04] <annevk> but yeah
  289. # [18:04] <annevk> that might be a tad more readable
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  291. # [18:06] <JakeA> wanderview: I think respondWith should time out like regular requests do (unless there's a good reason to do something different?)
  292. # [18:06] <wanderview> JakeA: you mean timeout the network request, not the service worker lifetime timeout, right?
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  298. # [18:17] <Domenic> annevk: yeah actually now that I think about it, you'll almost certainly need a few targetObjs to implement the caller-appropriate cross-origin representation thing.
  299. # [18:17] <Domenic> Otherwise you'll need some place to store the getter/setter function objects
  300. # [18:17] <annevk> Domenic: well yeah, my plan for that was to have a WeakMap
  301. # [18:17] <Domenic> Seems better to have a caller-appropriate cross-origin target object
  302. # [18:18] <Domenic> right
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  304. # [18:18] <annevk> Domenic: I guess it could be an object on the other side of the WeakMap rather than a function...
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  306. # [18:19] <Domenic> i guess i am just saying that the distinction between a WeakMap mapping callers to { hrefSet, hrefGet, originSet, originGet, ... } and a WeakMap mapping callers to CrossOriginLocation-esque objects is not big
  307. # [18:19] <Domenic> whichever is more convenient to spec I guess
  308. # [18:19] <annevk> In the hrefSet scenario those would simply be internal slots, right?
  309. # [18:20] <Domenic> internal slots of what?
  310. # [18:20] <annevk> of the Location object
  311. # [18:21] <annevk> and then when [[Get]] happens it would try to pull them out of the weakmap and if that fails wrap them and put them in the weakmap and then return them
  312. # [18:21] <Domenic> I still don't understand what internal slots you are talking about
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  315. # [18:21] <annevk> Domenic: to describe Location.protocol et al
  316. # [18:22] <Domenic> annevk: can you give these slots a name and what object they live on please?
  317. # [18:22] <annevk> Domenic: I'm talking about the behavior of e.g. the protocol getter/setter, where that has to live
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  319. # [18:23] <Domenic> annevk: so you need one getter/setter per caller right?
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  321. # [18:23] <Domenic> (for some definition of "caller")
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  323. # [18:23] <annevk> Domenic: per tuple of sorts, right
  324. # [18:24] <annevk> Domenic: though for cross-origin there's really only two: set href / replace
  325. # [18:24] <Domenic> So I see two possibilities: 1. let wm = this@[[AccessorWeakMap]]; 2. if wm has caller, let accessors = get caller from wm and return accessors.[[Get]]; 3. otherwise, create accessors, store, return.
  326. # [18:25] <Domenic> or
  327. # [18:25] <Domenic> 1. let wm = this@[[RepresentationWeakMap]]; 2. if wm has caller, let obj = get caller from wm; 3. otherwise, let obj = new CrossOriginLocationRepresentation, and store it in wm; 4. return Get(obj, "origin")
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  330. # [18:26] <Domenic> I tend to think the latter will work better
  331. # [18:27] <Domenic> If you go with the former though it probably won't be bad, just maybe a little messy, and we could refactor it into the latter if indeed it ends up isomorphic
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  337. # [18:30] <annevk> Domenic: so since for Location it's only "href" and "replace" that are magical cross-origin, perhaps actually defining own properties and having some special behavior cross-origin with the WeakMap would be even simpler
  338. # [18:31] <Domenic> annevk: you can't define own properties once you've taken over the definition of [[Get]]/[[Set]]/[[DefineOwnProperty]]/et al.
  339. # [18:31] <annevk> Domenic: and "href" and "replace" and the cross-origin variants of them would simply invoke an abstract operation
  340. # [18:31] <Domenic> In other words proxies cannot have own properties
  341. # [18:31] <annevk> Domenic: oh, they cannot defer?
  342. # [18:31] <annevk> Domenic: okay
  343. # [18:31] <Domenic> They can defer to a different target object
  344. # [18:31] <annevk> Domenic: in that case defining a LocationBackend seems sensible
  345. # [18:31] <Domenic> And they can use the ordinary behavior
  346. # [18:32] <Domenic> Hmm actually
  347. # [18:32] <Domenic> How does Array length work
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  349. # [18:32] <Domenic> I might be wrong
  350. # [18:33] <Domenic> Array length is defined like https://tc39.github.io/ecma262/#sec-properties-of-array-instances-length
  351. # [18:33] <Ms2ger> It doesn't
  352. # [18:33] <Domenic> Ah and then DefineOwnProperty handles that specially https://tc39.github.io/ecma262/#sec-array-exotic-objects-defineownproperty-p-desc
  353. # [18:33] <Domenic> So annevk I think your strategy is also valid
  354. # [18:34] <Domenic> But you'll need to have [[Get]]/etc. say "if P is not href or replace, do the ordinary thing"
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  358. # [18:36] <annevk> Domenic: yeah, I was just thinking that; if you can defer to the ordinary thing, this should also work
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  395. # [20:32] <jsx> Is XHR standardization now done at WHATWG completely (as opposed to at W3C)?
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  400. # [20:47] <Domenic> jsx: yes. See https://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Fork_tracking
  401. # [20:47] <Domenic> We should probably add HTML there hrm
  402. # [20:48] <jsx> Ok, thanks.
  403. # [20:50] <jsx> "Confusion Persists"
  404. # [20:51] * jyasskin_ is now known as jyasskin
  405. # [20:55] <Domenic> Why does the wiki always recaptcha me...
  406. # [20:58] <gsnedders> In case anyone going to Japan knows: http://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/57622/ana-domestic-carry-on-allowance-can-i-take-a-laptop-bag-as-well-as-a-rucksack
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  427. # [22:17] <annevk> Domenic: made you an admin on the wiki, hope that helps
  428. # [22:17] <annevk> Domenic: if not, ping GPHemsley
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  437. # [22:52] <caitp> regardless of whether or not it's possible to get rid of a vendor prefixed name for something at a specific point in time, what is the point in validating its existence in a spec document?
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  440. # [23:03] <Domenic> What is the point of speccing any feature that web pages are using?
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  448. # [23:27] <jamesr> what is the normative reference for one hand clapping?
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  452. # [23:35] <Dashiva> One hand clapping is just an example, it has no normative status
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  457. # [23:43] <jgraham> One hand clapping doesn't sound very informative
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  460. # [23:50] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
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  468. # Session Close: Tue Oct 20 00:00:00 2015

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