/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2015-11-17 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Nov 17 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  30. # [00:50] <smaug____> jgraham: I probably asked this before, but we don't have too many tests for MessagePorts, right? Do you happen to know if anyone is writing such?
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  239. # [08:34] <annevk> hsivonen: it is not
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  258. # [09:43] <zcorpan> hmmmm. i just realized that ::cue(c::before) { content: url(image) } is possible...
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  271. # [10:11] <annevk> jgraham: is the localStorage issue in https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/2329 that mkwst points out really an issue?
  272. # [10:12] <mkwst> annevk: It will be if Chrome imports the tests. We run X workers with basically random subsets of our layout tests at the same time on the same machine. I imagine Firefox shards things similarly.
  273. # [10:13] <jgraham> We don't shard things like that
  274. # [10:13] * jgraham reads the issue
  275. # [10:13] <annevk> mkwst: wouldn't that just break http://w3c-test.org/webstorage/?
  276. # [10:14] <mkwst> annevk: Probably. Those tests look like they assume they're the only thing running.
  277. # [10:14] <jgraham> mkwst: For the record, Gecko typically runs a single test process per machine, but if it didn't it would certainly use a single profile per test instance
  278. # [10:14] <mkwst> (based on random spot-checking)
  279. # [10:14] <annevk> mkwst: I suspect most tests do
  280. # [10:15] <jgraham> Servo runs multiple processes, but doesn't support storage afaik
  281. # [10:15] <mkwst> *shrug* One way around it is to use unique names, and check for those when reading storage events.
  282. # [10:15] <jgraham> Running multiple tests in parallel accessing the same underlying browser state seems like it's asking for problems
  283. # [10:16] <mkwst> jgraham: That basically "the internet", though, isn't it?
  284. # [10:16] <jgraham> … not really
  285. # [10:16] <mkwst> If you know that's a constraint, you write tests to deal with it.
  286. # [10:17] <jgraham> It sounds a bit like "programming in C is easy, just don't access invalid memory" or something :)
  287. # [10:18] <jgraham> In any case I would be interested to know what jsbell thinks because he changed the localStorage tests to clear the storage before each test
  288. # [10:18] <jgraham> *before and after
  289. # [10:18] <mkwst> jgraham: Which is why we have tools like asan. :) Basically, when they started sharding tests, it was a huge pain in the ass to get everything running because tests assumed they owned the world.
  290. # [10:18] <jgraham> s/asan/Rust/ :p
  291. # [10:19] <mkwst> Now that I'm typing all this, I guess I'm not _sure_ that we're actually sharding layout tests. Maybe we're only sharding unit tests.
  292. # [10:19] <jgraham> Anyway, ignoring the analogy, I think that running multiple tests in parallel with shared global state is asking for trouble
  293. # [10:19] <mkwst> Well, yes. I'm suggesting that "shared global state" is the problem, not "running multiple tests in parallel"
  294. # [10:20] * Joins: mosulica (~textual@assist.ro)
  295. # [10:20] <jgraham> Well the shared global state exists; we can't change the platform. Or make each test run in its own origin.
  296. # [10:20] <jgraham> And in some cases it is the shared global state that you are testing
  297. # [10:20] <jgraham> So you can't just never use it
  298. # [10:21] <mkwst> You can design tests not to rely on it. As I noted above: using a unique name for the storage key would help,
  299. # [10:21] <jgraham> Yes, so I agree that this test could be better
  300. # [10:22] <jgraham> But I think that running unit tests in parallel and layouttests in serial would fit more of the datapoints I have about your testing. And about what seems plausible to actually work.
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  304. # [10:25] <annevk> jgraham: none of the webstorage tests appear to use unique names either
  305. # [10:25] <annevk> jgraham: e.g., view-source:http://web-platform.test:8000/webstorage/resources/local_set_item_clear_iframe.html
  306. # [10:27] <mkwst> *shrug* Ask jsbell. I might very well be wrong.
  307. # [10:29] <jgraham> annevk: Well yeah, I didn't say the existing tests were perfect :)
  308. # [10:30] <mkwst> unrelatedly: is there a web-facing API that implements https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#urlencoded-serializing?
  309. # [10:30] <mkwst> I thought `encodeURIComponent` would get me there, but it doesn't match for 0x27 (`'`).
  310. # [10:31] <annevk> mkwst: <form>
  311. # [10:31] <annevk> mkwst: ECMAScript has its own algorithms
  312. # [10:31] <mkwst> ...
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  314. # [10:32] <jgraham> Welcome to the web!
  315. # [10:32] <philipj> mkwst: so it didn't quite match the spec? :)
  316. # [10:33] <mkwst> philipj: I think it does match the spec, but I want to write a test that doesn't involve me hard-coding values for 0x00 -> 0xFF.
  317. # [10:37] <philipj> mkwst: wouldn't a simply encodeByte() that tests for 0x20 and the pass-through bytes between 0x2A and 0x7A be about 5 lines of code?
  318. # [10:37] <philipj> Don't need a big explicit table, I mean
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  320. # [10:44] <mkwst> philipj: I might just be an idiot. *shrug* :)
  321. # [10:44] <philipj> mkwst: I really doubt it :)
  322. # [10:44] <mkwst> jgraham: Is there a mechanism to run a full test even if an assertion fails? Like, I want a list of _all_ the assertions in a test that fail, not just the first one. :)
  323. # [10:45] <mkwst> like, `expect` vs `assert` in gtest.
  324. # [10:45] <jgraham> mkwst: No
  325. # [10:45] <jgraham> Although you are not the first to ask for it
  326. # [10:45] <mkwst> :(
  327. # [10:46] * Ms2ger curses the eventTestHarness.js
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  329. # [10:50] <annevk> mkwst: just create a bunch of tests?
  330. # [10:50] <mkwst> I have a for loop to avoid creating a bunch of tests.
  331. # [10:50] <annevk> mkwst: multiple test/async_test in a single file that is
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  333. # [10:50] <zcorpan> can encodeURIComponent be changed or will that break the web?
  334. # [10:51] <mkwst> I want to run 0x00 -> 0xFF through URLSearchParams to see what happens, and where Firefox and Chrome disagree. I don't want 255 tests.
  335. # [10:52] <jgraham> Why not?
  336. # [10:52] <Ms2ger> I think you do
  337. # [10:52] <mkwst> I think I do in testharness.js, because that's the only way to get sane error messages.
  338. # [10:53] <Ms2ger> That's what http://w3c-test.org/XMLHttpRequest/send-usp.html does too
  339. # [10:53] <mkwst> I think I don't in other testing frameworks I'm familiar with, because they don't die on the first error.
  340. # [10:53] <Ms2ger> You want it because they're independent tests
  341. # [10:53] <mkwst> Oh, ha. I hadn't thought about putting the for loop outside the `test()`. Clever!
  342. # [10:54] <mkwst> (See, philipj? Idiot. :) )
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  344. # [10:56] <philipj> mkwst: Hah, still not convinced. Generating a bunch of tests is really quite nice with testharness.js, though, I like that.
  345. # [10:56] <annevk> zcorpan: battle with es-discuss?
  346. # [10:56] <Ms2ger> jgraham, oh, btw
  347. # [10:56] <Ms2ger> What's the story of content-security-policy/blink-contrib/?
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  349. # [10:56] <annevk> jgraham: so do I need to change the test?
  350. # [10:57] <annevk> whoa whoa
  351. # [10:57] <annevk> web-platform-tests has 112 open PRs?
  352. # [10:58] <Ms2ger> That's all?
  353. # [10:59] <Ms2ger> I think I briefly managed to push it under a hundred early this year
  354. # [11:00] <annevk> Okay, I guess I'll just keep submitting PRs
  355. # [11:01] <zcorpan> while (zcorpan.hasChocolate() && PRs.length >= 100) { review(PRs.pop()) }
  356. # [11:01] <Ms2ger> If you can convince jst_ to hire someone to do DOM QA, we could maybe improve the situation
  357. # [11:02] <jgraham> Wait, what? If we get the queue under 100, you will stop working?
  358. # [11:02] <jgraham> That doesn't sound like an ideal incentive
  359. # [11:03] <mkwst> Ms2ger: Brad asked me to contribute all the blink CSP tests to WPT so that he'd be licensed to work on them under whatever license WPT has.
  360. # [11:03] <mkwst> So I did.
  361. # [11:03] <mkwst> And we've been converting them to testharness and WPT over time.
  362. # [11:04] <annevk> Ms2ger: that doesn't sound impossible, do you have anyone in mind?
  363. # [11:04] <Ms2ger> mkwst, so if I wanted to rewrite some of those tests to look more like native th.js tests, that wouldn't step on anyone's toes?
  364. # [11:04] <Ms2ger> annevk, not really
  365. # [11:04] <mkwst> Ok, philipj. Since you apparently know things about encodings, what is URLSearchParams supposed to produce for `0x80`? Both Firefox and Chrome produce `%C2%80`, which I guess means it's correct, but I have no idea why.
  366. # [11:05] <gsnedders> annevk: a lot of the open PRs are pretty old
  367. # [11:05] <annevk> gsnedders: yeah I noticed
  368. # [11:06] <philipj> mkwst: if you do u'\u0080'.encode('utf8') in Python it will make sense :)
  369. # [11:06] <annevk> gsnedders: I might keep noticing this every six months or so when I look into adding some tests
  370. # [11:06] <gsnedders> annevk: stuff either gets merged quickly or lasts forever, more or less :P
  371. # [11:06] <mkwst> Ms2ger: please do! If you want to be super-safe, you could ping @hillbrad to make sure he's not working on something in parallel, but I think you'll be safe.
  372. # [11:06] <zcorpan> jgraham: i know, but historically it seems we haven't managed to get the number much lower than 100. i don't know if that's because there are lots of old PRs that are really annoying to review for some reason, or we feel good about getting below 100, or both
  373. # [11:06] <philipj> U+0080 is simply those two bytes in UTF-8
  374. # [11:06] <mkwst> philipj: So, how do I write a test that produces that output? In JavaScript and not Python. :)P
  375. # [11:07] <philipj> Oh, wait, that's a very good question!
  376. # [11:07] <Ms2ger> mkwst, I'll file an issue
  377. # [11:07] <jgraham> zcorpan: I agree with gsnedders' 2-population theory. I think we probaly have a significant fraction of 100 PRs stuck for some reason
  378. # [11:07] <jgraham> e.g. too hard to review, reviewed with comments and noone addressing them, etc.
  379. # [11:07] <gsnedders> the former is something we should try and work harder on, the latter someone should pick them up
  380. # [11:07] <annevk> mkwst: (new TextEncoder()).encode("\u80") though then you still have to go from bytes to %{byte} etc.
  381. # [11:08] <annevk> philipj: ^
  382. # [11:08] <mkwst> philipj: So, it looks like Firefox and JavaScript agree on everything except "!", "(", ")", "/", and "~". I assume Firefox is correct to encode these, and Chrome is incorrect not to.
  383. # [11:08] <annevk> mkwst: you can also do it through URL parsing
  384. # [11:09] <annevk> mkwst: which uses a utf-8 encoder under the hood
  385. # [11:09] <mkwst> annevk: Well, not when URL parsing is what I'm trying to test. :)
  386. # [11:10] <annevk> mkwst: fair
  387. # [11:10] <annevk> mkwst: note https://github.com/whatwg/url/issues/18 btw
  388. # [11:10] <mkwst> TextEncoder seems to work, thanks.
  389. # [11:10] <philipj> mkwst: I actually "forgot" that there are bytes >0x7F, if you want to test all bytes you'll have to find a set of code points that contain all bytes when represented as UTF-8, but I wouldn't assume without testing that that's possible, maybe some bytes are unused in UTF-8?
  390. # [11:10] <philipj> annevk must know
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  392. # [11:10] <gsnedders> philipj: FE and FF
  393. # [11:11] <Ms2ger> I don't guess anyone here has strong views on blink's webstorage layout tests that ended up in wpt?
  394. # [11:11] <philipj> gsnedders: I suspected as much
  395. # [11:12] <philipj> mkwst: but it looks like there's plenty of disagreement in the range 0x00-0x7F too :)
  396. # [11:12] <mkwst> Well, 5 characters.
  397. # [11:12] <mkwst> 6 characters, sorry. Firefox gets 0x00 wrong.
  398. # [11:13] <annevk> I think bz has a patch for 0x00
  399. # [11:13] <Ms2ger> Yeah, that landed
  400. # [11:13] <philipj> I love null in strings, it's the best
  401. # [11:13] <Ms2ger> I'm glad Servo doesn't have to worry about that
  402. # [11:16] <philipj> Ms2ger: It's actually mostly a non-issue in WebKit/Blink as well, but it was a nuisance in Presto
  403. # [11:16] <Ms2ger> It's mostly a non-issue in Gecko too, but we still end up with bugs like this
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  405. # [11:17] <mkwst> Ok, great. In that case, Gecko is 100% awesome, and Chrome (will be) ~98.04% awesome for the range 0x00-0xFF.
  406. # [11:17] <annevk> Ms2ger: jgraham: I think https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1278 should land given that we are landing tests that check URLSearchParams() without new throws
  407. # [11:18] <Ms2ger> Ugh, I thought the spec was fixed already
  408. # [11:18] <annevk> philipj: do you remember the big Presto rewrite?
  409. # [11:18] <annevk> Ms2ger: IDL doesn't have an active editor
  410. # [11:18] <philipj> annevk: related to strings?
  411. # [11:19] <Ms2ger> > I might consider doing that if I wasn't within about a week of having to freeze the final ES6 draft.
  412. # [11:19] <Ms2ger> Yay versioning
  413. # [11:19] <Ms2ger> annevk, yeah, whatever, rebase and land it
  414. # [11:19] <Ms2ger> That ship has sailed, unfortunately
  415. # [11:20] <annevk> Ms2ger: then I get "error: The following untracked working tree files would be overwritten by checkout:"
  416. # [11:20] <Ms2ger> tools/?
  417. # [11:20] <annevk> Ms2ger: yes
  418. # [11:21] <Ms2ger> I think the easiest solution is `git checkout non-new-Blob; git branch -m non-new-Blob-old; git checkout master; git checkout -b non-new-Blob; git cherry-pick d8d1e56; git push -f origin non-new-Blob`
  419. # [11:22] <annevk> git checkout fails though
  420. # [11:23] <annevk> I hate this repo
  421. # [11:23] <Ms2ger> I'll do it
  422. # [11:24] <mkwst> philipj: Would you mind taking a look at https://codereview.chromium.org/1442643008 (the serialization in particular)?
  423. # [11:24] <mkwst> I think I've addressed all your comments.
  424. # [11:24] <philipj> gsnedders, mkwst: in some ad-hoc testing with Python it looks like only 238 unique bytes show up in UTF-8
  425. # [11:24] <philipj> mkwst: will take a look
  426. # [11:26] <gsnedders> philipj: there should be all but those two
  427. # [11:26] <annevk> gsnedders: per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-8#Codepage_layout there's 13
  428. # [11:27] <gsnedders> oh, right, the old four-seven byte length sequences
  429. # [11:27] <gsnedders> plus the overlong 2-byte reprs
  430. # [11:27] <philipj> I didn't go all the way up to astral, so I may have missed some
  431. # [11:27] <philipj> anyway...
  432. # [11:28] <annevk> gsnedders: four-infinite, even
  433. # [11:28] <annevk> gsnedders: I only knew about five and six
  434. # [11:28] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: can you merge https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/2334 ? it appeared i had too little space left to clone the repo :-(
  435. # [11:28] <gsnedders> annevk: seven/infinity were never part of UTF-8
  436. # [11:28] <philipj> I thought at some point they decided that unicode was going to be at most 24-bit to avoid the infinity problem?
  437. # [11:29] <gsnedders> annevk: they're purely theoretical extensions, that were disallowed for other reasons anyway (confusion with BOMs, most obviously)
  438. # [11:29] <annevk> philipj: well, they also decided on a 16-bit limit initially
  439. # [11:29] <gsnedders> annevk: well, depends which WG…
  440. # [11:29] <annevk> philipj: that didn't go well
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  442. # [11:29] * Ms2ger clicks the big green button
  443. # [11:30] <philipj> annevk: well, yeah :) the 24-bit limit seems to have done better, though
  444. # [11:30] <gsnedders> annevk: the Unicode Consortium did 16-bit, the ISO did an infinity scheme, AFAIK
  445. # [11:30] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: :-) wasn't sure about the current green-button policy for wpt
  446. # [11:30] <gsnedders> annevk: reconsiling them with Unicode 2.0 added the 21-bit restriction (for the sake of surrodates)
  447. # [11:30] <philipj> oh, was it 21 bits?
  448. # [11:31] <annevk> philipj: yeah, it's 21 at the moment
  449. # [11:31] <gsnedders> philipj: it's still 21-bit, hence 10FFFF being the max codepoint
  450. # [11:31] <philipj> ok, I just guessed a little :)
  451. # [11:32] <gsnedders> six byte UTF-8 allows 31-bit, which was the original limit of the ISO spec, apparently. My memory that it was infinite was totally wrong.
  452. # [11:35] <Ms2ger> jgraham, I wonder how you'd feel about adding something to th.js that takes an array of functions that return async_tests and runs them in sequence?
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  459. # [11:47] <gsnedders> Anyone know if anyone is running the CSSWG\s tests for transitions?
  460. # [11:59] <Ms2ger> Not Servo
  461. # [12:00] <gsnedders> Despite you guys supporting some of it! :P
  462. # [12:02] <Ms2ger> Feel free to enable them :)
  463. # [12:03] <gsnedders> This, uh, may be what I'm doing.
  464. # [12:03] <gsnedders> Andseeing random noice in results in Servo.
  465. # [12:03] <Ms2ger> Lovel
  466. # [12:03] <Ms2ger> y
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  468. # [12:04] <gsnedders> *noise
  469. # [12:04] <gsnedders> wondering if the tests are buggy…
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  472. # [12:21] <gsnedders> they seem a bit abandoned? I have no idea how good they are
  473. # [12:21] <gsnedders> they have all kinds of JS magic involved…
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  475. # [12:21] <Ms2ger> No idea
  476. # [12:22] <gsnedders> some of it is just working around the lack of async sequences
  477. # [12:23] * gsnedders wopnders if the new failures in transforms are Servo breaking or your recent update
  478. # [12:23] * gsnedders really can't type today…
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  506. # [13:53] <Ms2ger> Hrm
  507. # [13:53] <Ms2ger> Is the storage event not fired at the window where you're making the changes?
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  511. # [14:04] <annevk> Ms2ger: correct
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  513. # [14:04] <Ms2ger> annevk, can you point that out in the spec?
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  516. # [14:06] <annevk> Ms2ger: reverse lookup "send a storage notification"
  517. # [14:07] <Ms2ger> Gotcha, thanks
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  529. # [14:39] <annevk> zcorpan: https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/339 r?
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  533. # [14:46] <zcorpan> annevk: do you have a reference at hand for people no longer wanting to support data: for workers?
  534. # [14:47] <Ms2ger> Wait, we don't? Why not?
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  544. # [15:11] <annevk> zcorpan: sorry, I thought that was in the referenced issue
  545. # [15:11] <annevk> zcorpan: instead, the information on that is in the issue referenced from that issue: https://github.com/whatwg/fetch/issues/161#issuecomment-156414633
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  549. # [15:16] <mkwst> annevk: FWIW, I've had adding `data:` support for Workers on my list of "things to do when I have free time" for a while now.
  550. # [15:16] <annevk> mkwst: for non-shared workers workers?
  551. # [15:16] <mkwst> like `data:` in the rest of Chrome, it wouldn't inherit an origin, so it would be a bit of a strangely sandboxed Worker.
  552. # [15:17] <mkwst> right. dedicated worker.
  553. # [15:17] <annevk> mkwst: oooh
  554. # [15:17] <mkwst> i won't be terribly sad if you kill it.
  555. # [15:17] <annevk> mkwst: so yeah, that'd be completely different from the specification
  556. # [15:17] <mkwst> yup!
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  558. # [15:17] <annevk> mkwst: and so yeah, that's not what is being removed
  559. # [15:17] <mkwst> but we're already willfully violating that bit of the spec, so why not violate some more, right?
  560. # [15:17] <mkwst> ok, maybe I'm misunderstanding?
  561. # [15:17] <annevk> (in fact, data URL support was already removed, this is just removing some remnants)
  562. # [15:18] <annevk> mkwst: per the specification data URLs would be same-origin
  563. # [15:18] <annevk> (the old specification)
  564. # [15:18] <mkwst> annevk: I know.
  565. # [15:18] <mkwst> I know it's a bit annoying that Chrome's a special flower
  566. # [15:18] <mkwst> but I don't think we're planning on changing our `data:` handling.
  567. # [15:18] <annevk> Euhm, I don't care and I think we're trying to change Gecko
  568. # [15:18] <mkwst> ah.
  569. # [15:18] * mkwst shuts up.
  570. # [15:18] <annevk> And most specifications reflect Chrome's policy
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  572. # [15:20] <zcorpan> annevk: added a comment
  573. # [15:20] <annevk> zcorpan: where do you think the note should go?
  574. # [15:22] <zcorpan> annevk: how about after <li><p>Let <var>worker URL</var> be the resulting <span>absolute URL</span>.</p></li>
  575. # [15:22] <annevk> zcorpan: so you want two identical notes?
  576. # [15:23] <zcorpan> annevk: i don't follow
  577. # [15:23] <annevk> zcorpan: Worker and SharedWorker
  578. # [15:24] <zcorpan> oh. hmm
  579. # [15:25] <annevk> And this will go out of sync once we have those filesystem URLs (if ever) and such
  580. # [15:27] <zcorpan> yeah, two notes. the kinds of URLs we have doesn't change very often so i think it's worth it
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  583. # [15:31] <caitp> it's almost that time of year when you fly to the keys and enjoy warmer-than-canada-in-january weather for a week or two. but there is no rest for the architects of the web
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  648. # [17:40] <MikeSmith> nice https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=303152#c22
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  698. # [19:54] <smaug____> jgraham: most of the wpt tests are written by browser devs, right?
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  703. # [19:58] <smaug____> (random wondering, why would anyone be sad about removing table sorting )
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  710. # [20:02] <wanderview> jgraham: is there a way to attach the wpt --debugger arg to the child process in e10s mode?
  711. # [20:03] <wanderview> woops, wrong channel
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  720. # [20:11] <jgraham> smaug____: I think most is very likely accurate, for a broad enough definition of "devs" (e.g. including QA)
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  741. # [20:45] <smaug____> jgraham: yeah, I meant with the broader definition. I was just thinking how we could get help from also web devs
  742. # [20:46] <smaug____> right now I'd like to see tests for MessagePort
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  805. # [23:27] <bblfish> annevk: I have succeeded in using Fetch now to authenticate cross originshttps://github.com/solid/solid-spec/issues/52#issuecomment-157519949
  806. # [23:27] <bblfish> oops. https://github.com/solid/solid-spec/issues/52#issuecomment-157519949
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  833. # Session Close: Wed Nov 18 00:00:00 2015

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