/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2015-11-19 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Nov 19 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  5. # [00:07] <smaug____> so hopeless
  6. # [00:07] <smaug____> can we remove it from the platform ? :)
  7. # [00:07] <zcorpan> gsnedders: no :-(
  8. # [00:07] <zcorpan> smaug____: no :-(
  9. # [00:08] <zcorpan> we suck
  10. # [00:08] <zcorpan> smaug____: is there a problem with specifying no-op for non-active documents' history?
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  12. # [00:10] <smaug____> this time I'm actually looking at the recent scroll restoration mode
  13. # [00:10] <smaug____> which is defined to do something, and that something isn't defined
  14. # [00:10] <smaug____> so actually, it isn't defined to do anything :)
  15. # [00:11] <zcorpan> very well then
  16. # [00:15] <zcorpan> smaug____: i think the spec was equally hand-wavy about scroll restoration before there was an api to turn it off
  17. # [00:16] <smaug____> that is true, but now I need to figure out what to actually turn off
  18. # [00:18] <zcorpan> yeah.. and i suppose if we want interop in this area, we should spec it better
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  174. # [07:59] * Now talking in #whatwg
  175. # [07:59] * Topic is 'https://whatwg.org/ — logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ & http://logbot.glob.com.au/ — stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html — Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
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  206. # [09:37] <bblfish> annevk: thanks for answering. Do you have a pointer to work on caching for the whole site?
  207. # [09:39] <bblfish> Also timbl made an interesting point: that if the browser made a HEAD instead of an OPTIONS on a GET preflight, then there would be a need for 1 less connection.
  208. # [09:41] <bblfish> mhh, but perhaps the reason for the 3 calls for me is that the browser first does a GET
  209. # [09:41] <bblfish> It's odd in chrome I always see the GET first, then OPTIONS. But I suppose that is just a display error.
  210. # [09:44] <bblfish> Yes, on my server I first see the GET, then then OPTIONS. Presumably because the GET returned a 401?
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  212. # [09:48] <bblfish> but the GET has all the required headers.
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  226. # [10:20] <bblfish> annevk: I got the whole order wrong of what was happening. So I rewrote the entry. https://github.com/solid/solid-spec/issues/52#issuecomment-157882202
  227. # [10:22] <bblfish> It actually looks like things might be perfectly efficient.
  228. # [10:23] <bblfish> at least for a GET, which should be the most usual case.
  229. # [10:23] <bblfish> It's just weird that a GET returning a 401 then is followed by an OPTIONS
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  235. # [10:27] <MikeSmith> nice to see patches finally landing in gecko for <details>+<summary> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=591737#c96
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  242. # [10:40] <rits_> hello everyone, i am glad to start working as an outreachy intern in whatwg, thanks for the opportunity :-)
  243. # [10:40] <MikeSmith> hi rits_
  244. # [10:41] <MikeSmith> your application was accepted?
  245. # [10:42] <rits_> MikeSmith: hello, yes it was accepted, was there any issue related to it?
  246. # [10:42] <MikeSmith> rits_: very cool
  247. # [10:42] <MikeSmith> that's great to hear
  248. # [10:43] <MikeSmith> no, no issues that I know of
  249. # [10:43] <rits_> MikeSmith: great, thanks :)
  250. # [10:43] <MikeSmith> and I didn't have anything to do with helping with it so far, but going forward I'm happy to help you when I can
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  252. # [10:44] <MikeSmith> I just had a new baby born about a month ago, and still in the process of trying to figure out some new work-life balance around that
  253. # [10:45] <MikeSmith> right now my baby has mostly been winning :)
  254. # [10:45] <MikeSmith> as far as where I've been spending time
  255. # [10:45] <rits_> MikeSmith: yeah, i wanted to discuss about my further steps, i am starting with bugs according to the timeline i made
  256. # [10:45] <MikeSmith> ok
  257. # [10:45] <annevk> zcorpan: happy b-day! 🎂
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  259. # [10:45] <zcorpan> annevk: thx!
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  261. # [10:45] <jgraham> ++
  262. # [10:46] <rits_> congrats for the baby :) MikeSmith
  263. # [10:46] <jgraham> ++ to that too
  264. # [10:46] <MikeSmith> rits_: thanks :)
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  266. # [10:46] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: felix navidad!
  267. # [10:47] <rits_> MikeSmith: baby would be winning around 1year of yours more :D
  268. # [10:47] <jgraham> MikeSmith: Out by about a month there :)
  269. # [10:47] <rits_> zcorpan: Happy b'day :)
  270. # [10:48] <MikeSmith> rits_: yeah but I need to get better skilled at squeezing in more work between baby time
  271. # [10:48] <rits_> MikeSmith: yeah if the baby allows you
  272. # [10:48] <MikeSmith> yeah
  273. # [10:49] <MikeSmith> rits_: as far as next steps I think it's just "more of what you already did"
  274. # [10:49] <MikeSmith> you already landed at least one spec change, right?
  275. # [10:49] <rits_> MikeSmith: yeah i did
  276. # [10:50] <zcorpan> thx. and congrats MikeSmith :-)
  277. # [10:50] <MikeSmith> rits_: ok, so far as I know it's up to you to decide what bugs to work on next or where else to put your time
  278. # [10:51] <rits_> MikeSmith: yes i will resolve the critical issues first,
  279. # [10:52] <annevk> rits_: indeed, you can make up your own schedule, but also, to be clear, at this point you're not expected to do anything
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  281. # [10:53] <annevk> rits_: I believe the internships starts with the week in Orlando and will last three months or so from that point
  282. # [10:53] <annevk> rits_: having said that, if you want to contribute now, that's perfectly fine and appreciated :-)
  283. # [10:54] <rits_> annevk: yeah ok, then i will try to learn about solving the issues till then, this time can be utilized for that
  284. # [10:54] <annevk> bblfish: there may or may not be an open issue or bug against Fetch
  285. # [10:54] <annevk> bblfish: not sure
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  287. # [10:55] <bblfish> annevk: I rewrote the entry, it looks like everything is fine, except for the weirdness that an OPTIONS follows a GET with CORS headers
  288. # [10:55] <rits_> annevk: i will work both ways :), will contribute in parallel with working according to the timeline,
  289. # [10:56] <yoav> annevk: regarding your "this should not use <code>" comment, did you refer to the "supported tokens"?
  290. # [10:56] <annevk> yoav: yes
  291. # [10:56] <yoav> OK, thanks
  292. # [10:56] <annevk> bblfish: hmm, are you sure something is not cached?
  293. # [10:56] <annevk> bblfish: sounds very fishy
  294. # [10:56] <annevk> rits_: \o/
  295. # [10:56] <bblfish> I'll make a new resource
  296. # [10:57] <rits_> annevk: :-)
  297. # [10:57] <bblfish> To mee it sounds brillant though :-)
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  299. # [11:01] <yoav> annevk: addressed your comments
  300. # [11:02] <annevk> yoav: so instead of <code> you want to use <span>
  301. # [11:03] <annevk> yoav: and the sandbox entry needs to be consistent with that of course
  302. # [11:03] <yoav> Oh, OK
  303. # [11:03] <yoav> that's what I was missing :)
  304. # [11:03] <annevk> yoav: it also seems that the xref for "the sandbox attribute" is wrong
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  306. # [11:04] <annevk> yoav: you want to xref just "sandbox", as <code data-x="attr-iframe-sandbox">
  307. # [11:05] <yoav> annevk: OK, fixed
  308. # [11:07] <annevk> yoav: is the xref for supported tokens not still wrong?
  309. # [11:07] <annevk> yoav: and it's still inconsistent with sandbox, where you use <code>
  310. # [11:07] <yoav> yeah, just saw that
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  312. # [11:07] <yoav> fixing it
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  314. # [11:07] <annevk> yoav: using a separate paragraph for relList's DOMTokenList's supported tokens might be good too
  315. # [11:07] <annevk> yoav: to make them completely identical
  316. # [11:08] <annevk> yoav: oh, and "the sandbox attribute" is not fixed yet
  317. # [11:09] <yoav> separated relList to its own <p>
  318. # [11:10] <yoav> what is still wrong with the sandbox attribute?
  319. # [11:11] <yoav> annevk: should it be <code>? should it just xref "sandbox"?
  320. # [11:11] <annevk> yoav: yes and yes
  321. # [11:11] <yoav> OK
  322. # [11:11] <annevk> When in doubt, just look at what the rest of HTML does
  323. # [11:13] <annevk> yoav: also, the second 's doesn't seem to make sense for the sandbox sentence...
  324. # [11:13] <yoav> so:
  325. # [11:13] <yoav> <p>The <span data-x="dom-domtokenlist-supported-tokens">supported tokens</span>
  326. # [11:14] <yoav> for <code data-x="sandbox">sandbox</code>'s <code>DOMSettableTokenList</code>'s are
  327. # [11:14] <yoav> the allowed values defined in <code data-x="sandbox">the sandbox attribute</code>
  328. # [11:14] <yoav> and supported by the user agent.</p>
  329. # [11:14] <zcorpan> s/'s are/ are/
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  331. # [11:15] <annevk> yoav: hmm, no
  332. # [11:15] <zcorpan> data-x="attr-iframe-sandbox" i think?
  333. # [11:15] <annevk> yoav: "the <code data-x="attr-iframe-sandbox">sandbox</code> attribute"
  334. # [11:15] <annevk> yoav: is what the rest of HTML does, as far as I can tell
  335. # [11:16] <annevk> Hmm, Twitter is done?
  336. # [11:17] <annevk> down, even
  337. # [11:17] <yoav> <p>The <span data-x="dom-domtokenlist-supported-tokens">supported tokens</span>
  338. # [11:17] <yoav> for <code data-x="attr-iframe-sandbox">sandbox</code>'s <code>DOMSettableTokenList</code> are
  339. # [11:17] <yoav> the allowed values defined in <code data-x="attr-iframe-sandbox">the sandbox attribute</code>
  340. # [11:17] <yoav> and supported by the user agent.</p>
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  342. # [11:20] <annevk> yoav: shouldn't the first sandbox reference the IDL attribute? The second is still not as I quoted it
  343. # [11:22] <yoav> <p>The <span data-x="dom-domtokenlist-supported-tokens">supported tokens</span>
  344. # [11:22] <yoav> for <code data-x="dom-iframe-sandbox">sandbox</code>'s <code>DOMSettableTokenList</code> are
  345. # [11:22] <yoav> the allowed values defined in the <code data-x="attr-iframe-sandbox">sandbox</code> attribute
  346. # [11:22] <yoav> and supported by the user agent.</p>
  347. # [11:22] <yoav> OK, sorry for missing that
  348. # [11:24] <yoav> annevk: OK, pushed that latest version. Gotta go now, but let me know if there are any further issues
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  350. # [11:27] <annevk> Hmm, I wish I'd know earlier he was in a hurry
  351. # [11:27] <annevk> known*
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  358. # [11:37] <annevk> I wonder how html/browsers/origin/cross-origin-objects/cross-origin-objects.html ever landed since it hardcodes domain names
  359. # [11:37] <annevk> Seems like Ms2ger might have reviewed that
  360. # [11:38] <annevk> jgraham: would the best course of action here be to rename the files to include .sub and make the appropriate modifications?
  361. # [11:39] <annevk> jgraham: or first land a rename commit and then make modifications?
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  365. # [11:43] <annevk> Well, I'll just do my best to get them fixed...
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  367. # [11:48] <jgraham> annevk: Fix and rename in one step seems fine
  368. # [11:50] <Ms2ger> Hrm, I didn't notice that bit
  369. # [11:53] <annevk> jgraham: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/2360
  370. # [11:53] <annevk> Ms2ger: ^
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  372. # [11:53] <annevk> Running that locally makes Firefox still pass all tests
  373. # [11:54] <annevk> jgraham: how is it clear btw what is test and what are support files?
  374. # [11:54] <annevk> that doesn't really seem indicated in that test
  375. # [11:54] <Ms2ger> "includes testharness.js"
  376. # [11:54] <Ms2ger> I don't think '//{{domains[www1]}}:' + location.port is right
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  380. # [11:54] <Ms2ger> jgraham, ^
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  389. # [12:04] <annevk> Ms2ger: why would that be wrong?
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  397. # [12:23] <jgraham> Well I would usually write {{ports[http][0]}} unless that wasn't what was required
  398. # [12:24] <zcorpan> jgraham: {{GET[foo]}} in .sub.html escapes &, but doesn't escape "?
  399. # [12:25] <zcorpan> jgraham: this makes it impossible to use literal &quot; (in attribute value)
  400. # [12:27] <jgraham> zcorpan: Hmm, it uses cgi.escape
  401. # [12:28] <zcorpan> If it is used as cgi.escape(string_to_escape, quote=True), it also escapes ". https://wiki.python.org/moin/EscapingHtml
  402. # [12:28] * zcorpan lunch
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  405. # [12:30] <jochen__> annevk, is "content attribute" a defined term?
  406. # [12:30] <jgraham> zcSounds reasonable if it doesn't break anything
  407. # [12:30] <jochen__> annevk: i.e. should I reference some spec for it, or just write "content attribute"?
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  409. # [12:31] <MikeSmith> annevk: with the changes Hixie made on the whatwg.org host does that now mean it's possible to get https://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org URLs working
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  411. # [12:40] <Ms2ger> jochen__, there's a definition you can link to, I believe
  412. # [12:41] <Ms2ger> Hrm
  413. # [12:42] <Ms2ger> jochen__, nevermind, there's a definition, but it doesn't get an ID for some reason
  414. # [12:42] <jochen__> kk
  415. # [12:42] <Ms2ger> https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/infrastructure.html#terminology
  416. # [12:42] <Ms2ger> annevk, ^
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  418. # [12:52] <annevk> MikeSmith: that still depends on DreamHost enabling HTTPS support for hosted email lists
  419. # [12:52] <MikeSmith> ah OK
  420. # [12:52] <MikeSmith> I thought they told you they were going to do that
  421. # [12:53] <MikeSmith> or something
  422. # [12:53] <annevk> jgraham: wouldn't you just want to reflect the port in use typically?
  423. # [12:53] <annevk> MikeSmith: no, unfortunately not
  424. # [12:53] <MikeSmith> ah
  425. # [12:58] <jochen__> annevk, hope I've addressed all your comments on the referrerPolicy IDL thing
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  427. # [12:59] <jgraham> annevk: I guess that's also fine if it's what you want
  428. # [12:59] <jgraham> It depends if you already using script or not
  429. # [12:59] <jgraham> If you are then using location.port isn't too bad. If you are trying to write a href attribute or stylesheet or something, that doesn't work
  430. # [13:00] <annevk> jochen__: looks more reasonable now
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  432. # [13:00] <annevk> jgraham: this already uses script, I've used {{location[port]}} for the other cases in recently submitted PRs
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  434. # [13:03] <jgraham> annevk: Yeah, it isn't a problem afaik
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  440. # [13:30] <Ms2ger> Suddenly, <details> support in Gecko
  441. # [13:37] <nox> Interesting.
  442. # [13:37] <odinho> boom
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  446. # [13:54] <zcorpan> jgraham: is it https://github.com/w3c/wptserve/blob/b6b082fb70c592c6164c76aa167ae4dc284ebb69/wptserve/pipes.py#L422 ?
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  449. # [14:00] <jgraham> zcorpan: Yes
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  453. # [14:04] <catalinb> JakeA: ping
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  456. # [14:07] <JakeA> catalinb: morning!
  457. # [14:08] <catalinb> JakeA: hey. I need some help understanding something regarding SW registrations. Do you have a few minutes?
  458. # [14:13] <JakeA> catalinb: sure, although I'm on my phone so my debugging is limited
  459. # [14:14] <catalinb> JakeA: okay, so we have a sequence of two register calls for the same scope with two different scripts. The first service worker script will reject the install handler after some.
  460. # [14:15] <catalinb> JakeA: can the following sequence happen?
  461. # [14:15] <catalinb> 1. call register() number two which will invoke Get Registration and find the registration created by the previous call
  462. # [14:16] <catalinb> 2. the install handler from the first sw rejects and ends up clearing the registration and thus removing it from the registration map
  463. # [14:17] <catalinb> 3. continue updating (from the second register call) with a registration that's not in the registration map
  464. # [14:20] <catalinb> JakeA: does it make sense?^
  465. # [14:21] <JakeA> catalinb: sounds like a bug, which could be a spec bug. Hang on, let me dig into the spec (it's 5am here so expect slowness)
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  467. # [14:23] <catalinb> thanks! and sorry for bothering you so early in the morning :)
  468. # [14:29] <JakeA> catalinb: at what point is register 1 at when register 2 is invoked?
  469. # [14:30] <zcorpan> jgraham: https://github.com/w3c/wptserve/pull/68 - it does what i want but i don't know if some existing test relies on not escaping ". it seems unlikely though
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  471. # [14:34] <catalinb> JakeA: register 2 is called while waiting for the first sw to reject the install waitUntil promise.
  472. # [14:36] <catalinb> at this point the registration is in the map
  473. # [14:37] <catalinb> We then get to Step 4.1 from Update Algorithm which is called in parallel
  474. # [14:39] <catalinb> I think this can race with steps 13-18 from "Install Algorithm" for the first service worker
  475. # [14:41] * wilsonpage is now known as wilsonpage-away
  476. # [14:41] <JakeA> catalinb: is the race solved by https://slightlyoff.github.io/ServiceWorker/spec/service_worker/#dfn-registration-queue-adt
  477. # [14:41] <smaug____> oh, I just realized Gecko does something very different to what the spec says with pushState/replaceState. Hmm, spec seems to have yet another bug there, but whether Gecko is sane...dunno
  478. # [14:43] <catalinb> JakeA: well no, because the first service worker's timestamp was already popped from the registration queue
  479. # [14:44] <smaug____> (or maybe it isn't that bad)
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  482. # [14:45] <JakeA> catalinb: so 4.2 is hit at https://slightlyoff.github.io/ServiceWorker/spec/service_worker/#update-algorithm - the installing worker is terminated. When is the registration removed from the map?
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  484. # [14:47] <catalinb> JakeA: at 16.3 at https://slightlyoff.github.io/ServiceWorker/spec/service_worker/#installation-algorithm
  485. # [14:47] <catalinb> before 4.2 is hit
  486. # [14:47] * wilsonpage-away is now known as wilsonpage
  487. # [14:48] <catalinb> this is possible since 4.2 from Update is not reached atomically from Register
  488. # [14:49] <JakeA> Ahhhh so registration 1 rejects itself, I thought it was being rejected because reg2 terminated it
  489. # [14:49] <JakeA> Following now
  490. # [14:50] <JakeA> catalinb: yeah, I don't think this should happen. Can you file a bug?
  491. # [14:50] <catalinb> yup.
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  494. # [15:06] <zcorpan> argh when will i learn to git add before git commit --amend
  495. # [15:09] <roc> just use -a a lot and try to pretend the index doesn't exist
  496. # [15:12] <smaug____> Why TokenList validation steps convert to lowercase ascii?
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  498. # [15:20] <smaug____> in all the cases
  499. # [15:20] <smaug____> looks odd
  500. # [15:20] <smaug____> oh well, not going to care about this
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  511. # [15:52] <gsnedders> is there any telemetry for % of users with user stylesheets?
  512. # [15:53] <jgraham> I don't know, but I would guess it's very very low
  513. # [15:53] <gsnedders> This is the obvious answer. :)
  514. # [16:01] <Ms2ger> Does Stylish count?
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  518. # [16:04] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: I'm going for yes
  519. # [16:04] <Ms2ger> amo says ~600000 users
  520. # [16:04] <Ms2ger> That's still very low, of course
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  528. # [16:23] <Ms2ger> > W3C Invites Implementations of XSL Transformations (XSLT) Version 3.0
  529. # [16:23] * Quits: strugee (~strugee@216.160.72.230) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  530. # [16:24] <gsnedders> hey, I'm sure there will be implementations!
  531. # [16:24] <gsnedders> …just not in browsers
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  538. # [16:53] <caitp> heycam|away|away / annevk / whoever: is it a good idea to ship DOM @@iterator stuff in the state they're in (with inconsistencies between certain iterable DOM interfaces), or should more time be spent poking and prodding people to make them consistent
  539. # [16:53] <caitp> eg window[@@iterator] vs NodeList.prototype[@@iterator]
  540. # [16:53] <annevk> caitp: I think bz would prefer some more prodding
  541. # [16:54] <caitp> I'd prefer some more modding too it just doesn't look like it's been happening
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  543. # [16:54] <annevk> caitp: there's not much folks working actively on IDL
  544. # [16:54] <annevk> so it's always a bit behind the facts
  545. # [16:54] <caitp> :(
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  548. # [16:57] <caitp> on the one hand, it would be nice to ship now, on the other hand, might be hard to fix things later if they do ever change
  549. # [16:57] <annevk> maybe run it by bz?
  550. # [16:57] <caitp> does he hang out here? I don't spend a lot of time on public-script-coord etc
  551. # [16:58] <annevk> see /msg
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  553. # [16:58] <annevk> jgraham: so can I merge https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/2360?
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  565. # [17:21] <Ms2ger> No
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  567. # [17:21] <Ms2ger> (I beat you to it :))
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  569. # [17:23] <annevk> ta
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  590. # [18:20] <annevk> mkwst: did you look at the latest in https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/323 very recently?
  591. # [18:20] <annevk> mkwst: would appreciate review
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  630. # [20:23] <mkwst> annevk: Sorry, was out this afternoon. Will look at the PR tomorrow morning. :)
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  651. # [21:24] * heycam|away|away is now known as heycam|away
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  654. # [21:32] <emerson> https://gist.github.com/emersonveenstra/f79807307abae9a16401 with this document, would Baz be a subsection of Bar?
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  715. # [23:59] * heycam|away is now known as heycam|away|away
  716. # Session Close: Fri Nov 20 00:00:00 2015

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