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  1. # Session Start: Tue Dec 15 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  74. # [03:54] <caitp> so, some colleagues were talking about some security issues they were working on for stands implementation, and one was not convinced there was any need to do things differently from plain user space js
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  77. # [03:55] <caitp> i tried to explain the threat model of leaking info synchronously, but admittedly, it's hard to come up with something compelling
  78. # [03:55] <MikeSmith> caitp: what is "stands"
  79. # [03:56] <caitp> streams
  80. # [03:56] <caitp> Swype-o
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  82. # [03:58] <MikeSmith> ah ok
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  84. # [04:00] <MikeSmith> I wasn't aware there's what new security risks Streams exposes
  85. # [04:00] * MikeSmith looks at the spec
  86. # [04:00] <caitp> in this case they're talking about [[private field]] vs normal fields, afaik
  87. # [04:00] <caitp> properties*
  88. # [04:01] <MikeSmith> oh
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  90. # [04:04] <MikeSmith> I don't remember reading discussion of that yet
  91. # [04:04] <MikeSmith> I mean in the github issue trackers discussions for Streams
  92. # [04:04] <MikeSmith> but maybe I need to read more carefully
  93. # [04:04] <caitp> it was either about implementation in blink or WebKit, probably blink because it sounded like they were using the private symbols thing there
  94. # [04:04] <caitp> so not spec specific necessarily
  95. # [04:04] <MikeSmith> ok
  96. # [04:04] <MikeSmith> incidentally I realize now that it seems like Streams discussion has slowed down a lot recently
  97. # [04:05] <MikeSmith> I used to get a lot of issue notifications for it but not much at all lately
  98. # [04:05] <MikeSmith> ah OK
  99. # [04:06] <MikeSmith> anyway at that level it seems like there are all kinds of gotchas when implementing something like this
  100. # [04:06] <MikeSmith> I mean in C++
  101. # [04:07] <caitp> there is definitely a potential issue if user space gets control of non user space stuff, but i mean more in general about cross origin communications channels in DOM
  102. # [04:08] <caitp> seems like it could be useful for notifying an attacker of some kind of side channel, maybe
  103. # [04:09] <MikeSmith> oh
  104. # [04:09] <MikeSmith> I see now
  105. # [04:10] <MikeSmith> caitp: btw you working on browser-engine code these days?
  106. # [04:11] <MikeSmith> still contributing to Angular?
  107. # [04:11] <caitp> v8/webkit/blink, from most frequently to least frequently
  108. # [04:12] <MikeSmith> ah
  109. # [04:12] <MikeSmith> didn't know
  110. # [04:14] * MikeSmith peruses some commit logs
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  112. # [04:15] <MikeSmith> ara
  113. # [04:15] <MikeSmith> caitp: you working at Igalia?
  114. # [04:15] <caitp> yeeah, joined this summer/fall
  115. # [04:16] <MikeSmith> very cool
  116. # [04:16] <MikeSmith> massive respect to them
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  118. # [04:17] <MikeSmith> seems like a very exceptional group of people
  119. # [04:17] <caitp> i think at least some of them hang out in here from time to time :p
  120. # [04:17] <MikeSmith> didn't know that
  121. # [04:18] <MikeSmith> I guess there's probably a few more people working there now than I realize
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  123. # [04:18] <MikeSmith> I don't actually personally know anybody else who works there so well
  124. # [04:19] <MikeSmith> well I know Joanie some
  125. # [04:19] <MikeSmith> Joanmarie
  126. # [04:19] <MikeSmith> super cool
  127. # [04:19] <caitp> yeah, I thought spec editors would probably know her
  128. # [04:20] <MikeSmith> yeah, I'm extremely glad she's able to spend time contribuing to spec discussions, especially for accessibility stuff
  129. # [04:20] <MikeSmith> I think she's a major asset to the accessibility effort
  130. # [04:20] <MikeSmith> and voice of reason, etc.
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  188. # [09:29] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: will review the build PR today
  189. # [09:30] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: ok thx
  190. # [09:30] <MikeSmith> (wasn't ignoring it, but just been working on trying to get a new validator release out)
  191. # [09:31] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: btw I finally changed the validator behavior to not report errors for ampersand cases that the spec says are not errors
  192. # [09:31] <zcorpan> (no worries)
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  194. # [09:33] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: oh, cool. didn't you want the rules to be simpler there? or is the current spec OK?
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  197. # [09:39] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: current spec is OK by me
  198. # [09:39] <MikeSmith> what I implemented in the parser conforms to the current spec, as far as I can remember
  199. # [09:39] <zcorpan> ok
  200. # [09:40] <MikeSmith> I'm a little fuzzy on it because I wrote the patch probably a year ago
  201. # [09:41] <MikeSmith> and to be the change hasn't been merged into the parser trunk; I'm resorting to checking it into a branch and having the validator use a build from that branch
  202. # [09:41] <MikeSmith> *and to be clear,
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  210. # [10:03] <zcorpan> ok
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  215. # [10:07] <howdoi> What does the service worker has acess to?
  216. # [10:08] <howdoi> I can't access DOM for sure, nor XHR
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  218. # [10:14] <annevk> howdoi: you can use fetch()
  219. # [10:15] <annevk> howdoi: it should have most APIs that are exposed in workers, minus a few
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  221. # [10:18] <howdoi> annevk: is there any list of which it can access and which it can't ?
  222. # [10:18] <howdoi> annevk: I am reading http://www.w3.org/TR/service-workers/
  223. # [10:19] <annevk> howdoi: don't really know if anyone keeps a list
  224. # [10:19] <annevk> howdoi: read https://slightlyoff.github.io/ServiceWorker/spec/service_worker/ instead
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  226. # [10:19] <annevk> howdoi: TR/ drafts are almost always the wrong thing to be reading
  227. # [10:19] <howdoi> Working Draft would be talking about it in bits and pieces
  228. # [10:20] <annevk> howdoi: I'm not sure what you mean, but the SW specification would not really talk about what APIs are available from ServiceWorkerGlobalScope, that's mostly up to other specifications
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  233. # [10:32] <howdoi> annevk: thanks, I shall re-read it
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  235. # [10:38] <yoav> annevk: friendly ping re https://github.com/whatwg/dom/pull/123 :)
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  238. # [10:56] <annevk> Thanks, so many GitHub things to look at... Halved the list so far.
  239. # [10:57] <annevk> yoav: are you using an older version of bikeshed?
  240. # [10:57] <yoav> maybe...
  241. # [10:58] <yoav> I'll update and see if it changes things
  242. # [10:58] <annevk> yoav: it seems your generated dom.html changes the formatting of a bunch of things
  243. # [10:58] <annevk> yoav: I guess I can merge and overwrite that locally
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  245. # [10:59] <yoav> I'm trying to update and see what it does, but feel free to merge and overwrite if you prefer
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  247. # [11:03] <annevk> yoav: it seems that might be the problem; I merged this one, I guess now you've updated it'll be fine for the patch that fixes where supported tokens lives
  248. # [11:03] <yoav> yeah, the update was the issue :)
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  264. # [11:52] <nox> annevk: No need to thank me, I introduced that damn typo. :)
  265. # [11:52] <annevk> heh
  266. # [11:52] <annevk> Well, I reviewed that change...
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  268. # [11:53] <nox> annevk: Hah, true. :)
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  282. # [13:29] <howdoi> annevk: jsfeatures.in is a progressive webapp, but the add to home screen banner is not getting triggered even after the bypass flag is enabled, any idea?
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  288. # [14:17] <annevk> howdoi: nope
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  290. # [14:21] <smaug____> hmm, I think I'm still missing webapps mailing list emails
  291. # [14:22] <Domenic> annevk: is https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/373 ready to go or still reviewing?
  292. # [14:22] <smaug____> MikeSmith: is there some way to know who all are subscribed to webapps mailing list?
  293. # [14:23] <smaug____> I wonder if most of the people were kicked out there last week
  294. # [14:24] <annevk> Domenic: I think it requires globalThis to land on the other side, no?
  295. # [14:25] <Domenic> annevk: oh, that happened already, that's when I removed the "do not merge" label :)
  296. # [14:25] <Domenic> execution context tracking (for the script execution PR) is still in progress, but globalThis and InitializeHostDefinedRealm are now in ES
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  298. # [14:26] <annevk> Domenic: hmm, the ECMAScript PR still has globalThis as an outstanding commit
  299. # [14:27] <annevk> Domenic: https://github.com/tc39/ecma262/commit/9474c58c6baf54e8b5347a182c2fa6ee10dab071 but I guess maybe that PR needs rebasing?
  300. # [14:27] <Domenic> annevk: the "master es2016-draft-20151210 " in the header of the commit means it's been merged into master and released in a tagged snapshot
  301. # [14:28] <Domenic> Ah it's that GitHub UI bug
  302. # [14:28] <annevk> Domenic: so I think it's good to merge then, ideally heycam also reviews this but we can ask him to come in after the fact
  303. # [14:29] <Domenic> He merged 3/4 commits in the PR, but GitHub doesn't update the PR to show that
  304. # [14:29] <Domenic> \o/
  305. # [14:29] <Domenic> Yeah IDL needs more updates...
  306. # [14:29] <Domenic> IDL doesn't even talk about script settings objects, it talks about "stack of scripts"?
  307. # [14:30] <Domenic> This experience has convinced me to move IDL updates up on the priority stack, although they are still below cancelable promises which are below this script/module work.
  308. # [14:30] <annevk> I think I convinced heycam last week to do most of my outstanding requests regarding internal slots, more formalized algorithms, this, current realm, etc. but I'm not sure what timeline we're looking at
  309. # [14:31] <annevk> Domenic: so will you merge 373 yourself?
  310. # [14:31] <Domenic> annevk: yeah I will, when I get to work in a couple hours.
  311. # [14:32] <annevk> such great refactoring
  312. # [14:32] <Domenic> My biggest requests for IDL are an update for latest ES, and a merger of the two type sections/getting rid of the seperate "ES binding" concept.
  313. # [14:32] <smaug____> ahaa, bug in session history algo. "8. If the specified entry is not an entry with persisted user state, but its URL has a fragment identifier, scroll to the fragment identifier." should not happen when coming from bfcache
  314. # [14:32] <annevk> smaug____: I guess that wasn't considered since only Firefox has a bfcache :/
  315. # [14:33] <Domenic> why is bfcache allowed in the standard? Can't it be a nonstandard Firefox extension if only one browser implements it and it affects interop in these kind of ways?
  316. # [14:33] <smaug____> annevk: webkit has it too
  317. # [14:34] <Domenic> hmmm
  318. # [14:34] <annevk> Domenic: so apparently WebKit has it too, but there's events too and I think someone told me a lot of the same issues come up with preload
  319. # [14:34] <Domenic> yeah this seems like the kind of interop situation we try to fix, not codify into the standard as "do either one, it's fine"
  320. # [14:35] <smaug____> hmm, perhaps that step 8 is fine if "entry with persisted user state" is interpreted certain way
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  322. # [14:41] <annevk> Domenic: so I think Chrome is not convinced about the complexity of this feature and believes that typically the network is fast enough so that reloading is fine
  323. # [14:41] <annevk> Domenic: whereas other browsers want to retain some representation
  324. # [14:41] <howdoi> await is boring with try-catch block
  325. # [14:42] <annevk> Domenic: also, this being history and that fundamentally being tied to UI makes it hard to see a fully interoperable future, but perhaps we can get closer in some aspects
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  327. # [14:54] <annevk> Domenic: so should https://bugs.ecmascript.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1898 be marked fixed?
  328. # [14:54] <annevk> Perhaps better to ask that in jslang
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  333. # [15:01] <Ms2ger> Domenic, annevk: is https://github.com/domenic/window-proxy-spec still worth looking at?
  334. # [15:01] <annevk> Ms2ger: for same-origin only
  335. # [15:01] <Ms2ger> Right
  336. # [15:02] <annevk> Ms2ger: I need to find time to study the discussion from last week and write up something more coherent, but thus far I'm mostly catching up
  337. # [15:02] <Ms2ger> Ok
  338. # [15:02] <annevk> Ms2ger: and apparently I'm somewhat legally obliged to take more holiday for the remainder of the year starting Friday so...
  339. # [15:02] * Ms2ger ponders trying to make nox write it up
  340. # [15:03] <nox> I would like some WebIDL stuff to actually support WindowProxy.
  341. # [15:03] <annevk> Heh, it's an interesting challenge for sure
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  344. # [15:04] <nox> Because the current WindowProxy stuff in HTML is laughable.
  345. # [15:04] <annevk> nox: what would IDL provide?
  346. # [15:04] <annevk> nox: as I understand it all we need is internal methods which IDL doesn't really help with in any meaningful way
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  348. # [15:04] <nox> No idea, but it seems insane to me that we have WindowProxy in the middle of nowhere, with a very vague definition, etc etc.
  349. # [15:04] <Ms2ger> annevk is working on the "vague" part, at least
  350. # [15:05] <nox> annevk: Well, ES6 has proxies, WebIDL doesn't, what about "proxy WindowProxy { /* what goes there to be defined */ }"
  351. # [15:05] <annevk> What Domenic has written up coupled up with more internal methods overrides and origin checks is roughly what we'll end up with I suspect
  352. # [15:05] <annevk> nox: if your IDL "interface" (to be renamed "class" one day) defines getter/setter stuff you'll get a proxy
  353. # [15:06] <nox> annevk: Still sounds better than prose with a interface not defined anywhere in actual IDL.
  354. # [15:06] <MikeSmith> smaug____: there's no public way to view the set of subscribers to a list afaik. I can see it myself though
  355. # [15:07] <Domenic> I think you would need a pretty new language if you wanted to write up WindowProxy in IDL
  356. # [15:07] <nox> Domenic: Ah?
  357. # [15:07] <annevk> MikeSmith: that API is available to Members too
  358. # [15:07] <Domenic> nox: it doesn't correspond to basically any concepts in IDL as it exists today. Extending IDL to give enough power would essentially create a micro-language inside IDL which is entirely composed of features to make WindowProxy work.
  359. # [15:08] <nox> I see.
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  361. # [15:09] <annevk> MikeSmith: w3.org 404s have mixed content
  362. # [15:09] <MikeSmith> oh, will try to get those 404 pages fixed
  363. # [15:09] <annevk> The only thing WindowProxy needs from IDL is acknowledgment that it exists and can be used in IDL interfaces
  364. # [15:10] <nox> annevk: And WebIDL doesn't provide that, right?
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  366. # [15:10] <nox> annevk, Domenic: What if we had just "proxy WindowProxy;"?
  367. # [15:10] <MikeSmith> annevk: actually those will be fixed when they deploy upgrade-insecure-requests, right?
  368. # [15:10] <Domenic> sure or "typename WindowProxy"
  369. # [15:10] <Domenic> we need the same thing for ReadableStream
  370. # [15:11] <MikeSmith> win 35
  371. # [15:11] <nox> Gecko does "interface WindowProxy;"
  372. # [15:11] <annevk> MikeSmith: I guess
  373. # [15:11] <nox> (IIRC).
  374. # [15:11] <Domenic> yeah that seems reasonable too
  375. # [15:11] <annevk> nox: it's the same problem Uint8Array et al have
  376. # [15:11] <annevk> nox: but IDL mentions those already in various places to make things work
  377. # [15:12] <nox> annevk, heycam|away: Btw, have you thought a bit more about [[HasInstance]] for NodeFilter?
  378. # [15:12] <annevk> perhaps if Domenic's grand flattening plan is executed that problem disappears altogether
  379. # [15:12] <annevk> nox: I haven't, was happy for you all to sort it out
  380. # [15:13] <nox> Yeah, I was happy this meeting happened too.
  381. # [15:13] <nox> The code I had to read was extremely confusing, glad that bz confirmed it was actually mostly dead code.
  382. # [15:13] <MikeSmith> smaug____: as annevk reminds me there's member-only access to subscriber lists, so I'll find a URL you can try
  383. # [15:14] <Ms2ger> > Worker initialization was refactored extensively, to avoid creating WorkerGlobalScope objects before the corresponding realm was created. (The existing setup had the problem where it was creating a WorkerGlobalScope, derived from Object, in a thread that didn't even exist yet.)
  384. # [15:14] <Ms2ger> Woo
  385. # [15:14] <annevk> MikeSmith: smaug____: https://www.w3.org/Member/Mail/AuditForm
  386. # [15:14] <nox> annevk: Though,
  387. # [15:15] <MikeSmith> thanks annevk
  388. # [15:15] <nox> I just realised we didn't have any meeting about whichever step in document.write() that confuses me. :(
  389. # [15:15] <annevk> MikeSmith: smaug____: https://www.w3.org/services/list-audit/query?queryList=public-webapps in particular
  390. # [15:15] <Ms2ger> Oh, did we get a bug filed about the dead code?
  391. # [15:15] <nox> Ms2ger: No idea.
  392. # [15:15] <nox> Ms2ger: Ask bz.
  393. # [15:15] <Ms2ger> I don't think so
  394. # [15:15] <Ms2ger> bz is on vacation to NZ
  395. # [15:15] <nox> Oh right.
  396. # [15:16] <nox> So probably not.
  397. # [15:16] <annevk> MikeSmith: smaug____: the main problem though is that for lists that are partially DB-backed you'll also need to check who is part of the group since those will also have gotten the email and are not listed on that page, aiui
  398. # [15:16] <Ms2ger> nox, can you write down what exactly is dead code, so I can file?
  399. # [15:16] <annevk> nox: filing GitHub issues is a decent substitute for meetings though
  400. # [15:16] <nox> annevk: True.
  401. # [15:17] <nox> Ms2ger: Will do that tonight.
  402. # [15:17] <nox> I'm still supposed to work on insane PHP code, mind you. :P
  403. # [15:17] <Ms2ger> Send me an email?
  404. # [15:18] <nox> Ms2ger: Will do.
  405. # [15:18] <Ms2ger> Thanks
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  414. # [16:00] <nox> annevk: Maybe "external interface Foo;" would be better? Bikeshedding though.
  415. # [16:02] <annevk> nox: it's not clear to me that we need to use IDL syntax for them
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  418. # [16:03] <annevk> nox: what we need is something that makes it clear they can be used in IDL using verbiage X coupled perhaps with some restrictions where they can be used (e.g., using WindowProxy in worker APIs would be bad)
  419. # [16:03] <annevk> nox: and we need to define what it means to create new instances of them from within IDL algorithms
  420. # [16:04] <annevk> nox: there might be some other things
  421. # [16:04] <nox> annevk: I see.
  422. # [16:04] <annevk> nox: but "bikeshed syntax" doesn't really solve any of those per se
  423. # [16:04] <nox> Definitely.
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  433. # [16:59] <smaug____> MikeSmith: ok, thanks. Looks like some essential people are now missing from the mailing list
  434. # [17:00] <smaug____> and Apple isn't currently a member of the wg
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  436. # [17:04] <annevk> smaug____: per https://www.w3.org/services/list-audit/query?queryList=public-webapps most Apple employees do get emails though
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  438. # [17:05] <smaug____> annevk: well, not rniwa for example
  439. # [17:09] <annevk> smaug____: I see, sigh
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  443. # [17:13] <nox> annevk: I think proxy … { … } would be the way to go. We could then say that interfaces with special operations get an implicit proxy on which these operations are defined, and we could make something like [Proxy=WindowProxy] on Window or any interface which need a more exotic proxy thing.
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  445. # [17:14] <annevk> nox: what problem are you trying to solve?
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  447. # [17:14] <nox> None particularly, I just hate how WindowProxy is specified and would like it to be more WebIDL-friendly.
  448. # [17:16] <Domenic> I really don't see a need to put anything in Web IDL for this
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  452. # [17:22] <annevk> Right, inventing IDL syntax does not solve problems so I'm also at a loss
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  455. # [17:32] <nox> Domenic, annevk: Disregard me then. :)
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  458. # [17:37] <gsnedders> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9675750/if-ie-comments-showing-up-in-ie9 is weird, seems like parsing of conditional comments in old IE can end up with valid comments being treated as text o_O
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  462. # [17:39] <nox> annevk: Should DOM be updated to use FrozenArray?
  463. # [17:39] <annevk> nox: where?
  464. # [17:41] <nox> Never mind I thought arrays were used in there somehow.
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  469. # [17:52] <Ms2ger> Oh, add-topic is dead?
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  473. # [17:56] <annevk> Ms2ger: what is add-topic?
  474. # [17:56] <Ms2ger> <annevk> No need to introduce new ADD-TOPIC or REMOVE-TOPIC syntax. It's no longer used.
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  476. # [17:57] <annevk> Ms2ger: oh, see, with uppercase it's much clearer
  477. # [17:57] <annevk> Ms2ger: yeah, that died with the transition to GitHub
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  485. # [18:06] <Domenic> what did it do?
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  492. # [18:32] <annevk> Domenic: it was used for emailing folks when a topic they cared about ended up being changed
  493. # [18:33] <annevk> Domenic: we discussed it to some extent when migrating and it wasn't used enough to care
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  517. # [19:25] <annevk> nikkibee: can I help with the CORS-preflight cache confusion?
  518. # [19:25] <nikkibee> annevk: yes, I'd appreciate that!
  519. # [19:25] <nikkibee> I'm not sure what it *accomplishes*
  520. # [19:25] <nikkibee> like I can see it's doing this stuff but it seems very circular to me
  521. # [19:25] <nikkibee> if there's no cache, then make the cache to compare against later?
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  523. # [19:26] <nikkibee> what I'm thinking is the answer right now is how CORS-preflight Fetch can return a network error
  524. # [19:26] <annevk> nikkibee: if there's no cache entry, make this preflight fetch to populate the cache (and make sure the server knows about CORS at the same time)
  525. # [19:26] <nikkibee> is that so if something is in the cache, we can be sure it's good? and if it doesn't match the catch, we need to run validation on it again?
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  527. # [19:27] <annevk> nikkibee: correct
  528. # [19:27] <nikkibee> ahh, I get it now! thanks
  529. # [19:28] <nikkibee> I mean, "we can be sure it's good" is pretty simple, but I'm sure I'll get a better idea of what validity means as I gain more experience with Fetch :)
  530. # [19:29] <nikkibee> would it be accurate to say it checks for CORS security?
  531. # [19:29] <annevk> nikkibee: it's basically a check to see the server understands CORS and is happy to handle cross-origin requests that go outside the traditional security model of the web
  532. # [19:29] <nikkibee> gotcha, thanks!
  533. # [19:30] <annevk> nikkibee: if you can think of places where some extra explanation would help that'd be welcome as issues / PR
  534. # [19:30] <nikkibee> annevk: I think more notes in general would be a good thing. whenever a step has a note it usually seems to be giving me the reason for the step
  535. # [19:31] <nikkibee> I don't always understand what the note itself means, but I often get that it's relating to something beyond the Fetch spec itself, and that I'd be doing something that'll be used later
  536. # [19:31] <annevk> nikkibee: notes are typically included based on PRs/issues or when I find something particularly complicated myself
  537. # [19:31] <annevk> I guess they might still be too abstract at times...
  538. # [19:32] <nikkibee> well my main thing is like
  539. # [19:32] <nikkibee> I've gone through all the steps, but it's not easy to understand the big picture
  540. # [19:32] <nikkibee> I don't know what the *point* of each different Fetch function is from the outset
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  542. # [19:33] <nikkibee> like I kinda get that things enter in Fetch; go to Main Fetch to get sorted to Basic Fetch or HTTP Fetch; and HTTP Fetch covers a lot of different ground
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  544. # [19:34] <nikkibee> but all the introductions are like "To perform an HTTP-network fetch using request with an optional credentials flag, run these steps:" and I don't know what the *goal* is
  545. # [19:34] <annevk> well the goal is representing response = fetch(request)
  546. # [19:35] <annevk> things are abstracted into their own algorithm if they are reused or when that is good for clarity
  547. # [19:35] <nikkibee> that makes sense
  548. # [19:35] <nikkibee> I hadn't thought about the reusing aspect, though I have noted what gets called where
  549. # [19:36] <annevk> we could have some more notes with a basic explanation I suppose, but a lot of the algorithms don't mean much by themselves
  550. # [19:36] <annevk> and we might change the arrangement I suppose if that becomes necessary at some point
  551. # [19:36] <nikkibee> fair enough
  552. # [19:36] <annevk> E.g., "main fetch" is a fairly recent addition we didn't need before
  553. # [19:37] <nikkibee> I think something could be done for the CORS-preflight cache on pointing out what I eventually concluded
  554. # [19:37] <nikkibee> huh, are the steps in main fetch new? or were they elsewhere?
  555. # [19:37] <annevk> nikkibee: they used to be in "fetch"
  556. # [19:38] <annevk> nikkibee: would that help at the top of CORS-preflight fetch though or in HTTP fetch step 4.1?
  557. # [19:38] <nikkibee> that sounds like a good change, if at least so each method is a bit shorter
  558. # [19:39] <nikkibee> annevk: both I think. like you would say different things in each place
  559. # [19:39] <annevk> nikkibee: we made it because we needed to reinvoke "fetch" from redirects, but wanted to keep some things unchanged
  560. # [19:39] <nikkibee> like in HTTP fetch step 4.1 it could be like "if something is in the cache, it's been validated. if it's not, we need to validate it"
  561. # [19:39] <annevk> nikkibee: so now redirects reinvoke "main fetch" and whatever is done in "fetch" is left alone
  562. # [19:39] <nikkibee> right
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  565. # [19:40] <annevk> nikkibee: could you comment in the preflightResponse issue to that effect? I'll add some notes tomorrow
  566. # [19:42] <nikkibee> sure thing
  567. # [19:44] <annevk> philipj: https://www.chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/1061 looks excellent, but I guess we need to wait longer
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  569. # [19:44] <annevk> philipj: btw, going directly to that URL in Firefox doesn't update the <select> correctly
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  574. # [19:50] <philipj> annevk: what you're seeing is probably https://github.com/GoogleChrome/chromium-dashboard/issues/220
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  576. # [19:52] <philipj> annevk: and yes, that use counter will be in M49, with an "Estimated Week of Stable" Feb 29th, 2016
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  579. # [19:53] <philipj> it does look pretty promising compared to some other recent counters, though
  580. # [19:53] <philipj> annevk: if there's any hurry, a googler might be able to tell you numbers from the dev channel
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  586. # [20:05] <Domenic> is importScripts() just sync xhr in disguise?
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  591. # [20:16] <Domenic> Who wants to add a "never show this again" to the "too slow" checkbox. jeez.
  592. # [20:17] <Domenic> s/checkbox/popup/
  593. # [20:17] <Domenic> although I guess if it uses cookies it's not going to work on my file:// URL copy
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  595. # [20:18] <annevk> Domenic: importScripts() is sync, but only for workers
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  597. # [20:20] <Domenic> yeah i guess we allow workers to jank themselves anyway
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  607. # [20:40] <wanderview> Domenic: we also do some special things for importScripts() in service workers
  608. # [20:41] <wanderview> monkey patching: https://slightlyoff.github.io/ServiceWorker/spec/service_worker/index.html#importscripts
  609. # [20:41] <Domenic> wanderview: yeah i saw junkees did a nice refactoring a while back to allow ServiceWorkerGlobalScope.importScripts to reuse most of the algorithm
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  611. # [20:41] <Domenic> That's not monkeypatching :). What was there before was monkeypatching... "do importScripts but instead of step 7, do X, and after step 8, do Y."
  612. # [20:42] <wanderview> ok
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  614. # [20:43] <rits> hello i am starting on this bug https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/176, needed some starting points for it
  615. # [20:46] <Domenic> rits: do you need help with the tooling, or with the contents of the bug? If the latter, annevk is the person to ask. If he's not around in this channel right now you can try asking clarifying questions on the bug thread itself.
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  617. # [20:48] <rits> Domenic: yeah, according to timezone he is not around now, i will discuss with him for the content part tomorrow, thanks
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  625. # [21:01] <smaug____> majidvp: about scrollRestoration
  626. # [21:02] <smaug____> majidvp: the spec currently hints that history.scrollRestoration = 'manual'; somewhere in a script in head is enough to give manual handling everywhere
  627. # [21:02] <smaug____> but #hash handling in session history doesn't get that
  628. # [21:03] <smaug____> hmm, I should just file a bug about the example in the spec I guess
  629. # [21:03] <smaug____> or perhaps we want to change the spec
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  631. # [21:05] <Domenic> speaking of which
  632. # [21:05] <Domenic> does majidvp or smaug____ want to make a PR for https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/350#issuecomment-159753715
  633. # [21:06] * smaug____ should probably try to figure out how to write a pr for the spec
  634. # [21:07] <smaug____> but it is github
  635. # [21:07] <smaug____> which means hassle to me
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  637. # [21:08] <smaug____> Domenic: so, which file should I modify?
  638. # [21:08] <smaug____> source?
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  640. # [21:09] <Domenic> smaug____: yep. https://github.com/whatwg/html#pull-requests should give the info needed.
  641. # [21:14] <majidvp> smaug: I can make the PR for issue 350 if you don't have the repo setup.
  642. # [21:14] * Joins: ambv (~ambv@199.201.64.138)
  643. # [21:14] <smaug____> majidvp: thanks
  644. # [21:14] <smaug____> majidvp: any feedback to https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/404
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  646. # [21:14] <smaug____> great issue number :)
  647. # [21:18] <majidvp> smaug____: As for the #hash, my read of the spec is that "history.scrollRestoration=manual" takes precedent over hash. In particular, step 8 says "If the specified entry is not an entry with persisted user state, but its URL has a fragment identifier, scroll to the fragment identifier."
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  650. # [21:19] <majidvp> smaug____: In other words, if we have any scroll information for the entry (including scrollRestoration='manual') then we should not scroll to hash.
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  652. # [21:19] <smaug____> majidvp: FYI, chrome does scrolls with #hash
  653. # [21:19] <smaug____> s/scroll/scroll/
  654. # [21:19] <smaug____> so #hash takes precedence
  655. # [21:21] <smaug____> majidvp: also "entry with persisted user state" doesn't mean scrollRestoration state
  656. # [21:21] <smaug____> as far as I see
  657. # [21:21] <smaug____> since scrollRestoration is an explicitly defined state
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  661. # [21:26] <majidvp> The Chrome behaviour is that it scrolls to hash on first load (where scrollRestoration = Auto) but it does not on any history traversal if the page has already set scrollRestoration=Manual.
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  663. # [21:26] <majidvp> https://code.google.com/p/chromium/codesearch#chromium/src/third_party/WebKit/LayoutTests/fast/history/scroll-restoration/scroll-restoration-fragment-navigation-crossdoc.html&sq=package:chromium&type=cs
  664. # [21:29] <majidvp> smaug____: what do you think the right behaviour should be? The spec gives precedent on history scroll restoration over navigation to hash so I think scrollRestoration=Manual should also take precedent over hash.
  665. # [21:32] * Joins: hendry (~hendry@888.dabase.com)
  666. # [21:32] <smaug____> majidvp: the spec gives precedence to fragment navigation
  667. # [21:32] <smaug____> but I think that is wrong
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  669. # [21:32] <smaug____> thouhg
  670. # [21:32] <smaug____> thouhg
  671. # [21:32] <smaug____> though :)
  672. # [21:33] <smaug____> what should happen to the hashchange event?
  673. # [21:33] <smaug____> it would still be dispatched, even without scrolling?
  674. # [21:34] <smaug____> majidvp: which behavior you want?
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  681. # [21:39] <smaug____> I guess dispatching hashchange is fine even without scrolling
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  683. # [21:39] <smaug____> is scrollRestoration is 'manual'
  684. # [21:40] <smaug____> s/is/if/
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  686. # [21:42] <majidvp> smaug____: yes, firing hashchange is independent of scrolling to fragment. It happens even if there is no fragment matching the hash.
  687. # [21:44] <smaug____> majidvp: you'll file a blink bug?
  688. # [21:44] <smaug____> or should I?
  689. # [21:45] <Domenic> I'm pretty excited about killing UTF16 in textencoder
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  691. # [21:49] <majidvp> smaug____:I can file a bug. Do you have a repro? Is it on first load, or when traversing back to the page?
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  693. # [21:50] <smaug____> majidvp: when traversing back at least
  694. # [21:51] <smaug____> I just manually tried something with http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/dom/events/Event.cpp
  695. # [21:51] <smaug____> load that, set 'manual'
  696. # [21:51] <smaug____> scroll/click 199 on the left
  697. # [21:51] <smaug____> then load about:blank
  698. # [21:51] <smaug____> and go back
  699. # [21:51] <smaug____> the mode is still manual, but page is scrolled
  700. # [21:54] <smaug____> majidvp: note, there is also "update the session history with the new page" where steps 4-6 do fragment scrolling
  701. # [21:56] <majidvp> That sounds like a bug. I will file it.
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  706. # [22:06] <majidvp> Hmmm, my first read suggests that "update the session history with the new page" is only invoked for new entries (i.e., history.scrollRestoration != Manual) which probably means it can be left as is.
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  712. # [22:15] <majidvp> on closer examination, the algorithm allows UA to spin the event loop for sometime before trying to scroll to fragment in a loop. So it is potentially possible for script to run in mean time and update scroll restoration mode for the entry to Manual. I think, it is more appropriate to leave this as is, i.e., scroll to fragment for new pages is not impacted
  713. # [22:15] <majidvp> by scroll restoration mode.
  714. # [22:19] <smaug____> "traverse the history" in step 1 calls "navigate", which then calls 7.6.2 which does 'update the session history with the new page'
  715. # [22:19] <smaug____> but maybe I'm missing some step in 'navigate' where we'd return early
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  720. # [22:42] <majidvp> I think you maybe right. I left a comment on the issue.
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  746. # [23:41] <Domenic> Hmm Chrome regressed typeof document.all to "object" and it didn't break the internet https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=567998
  747. # [23:42] <Domenic> I mean it kind of broke some stuff but not completely
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  754. # Session Close: Wed Dec 16 00:00:00 2015

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