/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2016-01-22 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Jan 22 00:00:00 2016
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  7. # [00:09] <miketaylr> are webkit layout tests safe to convert to web platform tests? cc jgraham
  8. # [00:09] <miketaylr> i don't see license info in the tests themselves
  9. # [00:10] <miketaylr> maybe just a comment "Based on a test from the WebKit project" is ok
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  12. # [00:16] <miketaylr> it looks like that's the approach taken in https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/b4c286f4fefe5cf1f47ecdd4e1aa6f41c6ff793f
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  17. # [00:26] <jgraham> miketaylr: People have done that before, but it is relicensing, so you probably need permission or something
  18. # [00:27] <miketaylr> jgraham: ok, i'll send an email to apple, unless hober wants to give me permission real quick
  19. # [00:29] <miketaylr> (or, i just write my own tests and call it a day)
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  21. # [00:40] <MikeSmith> if anybody knows the current implementor consensus on HTML Imports, can you please remind me
  22. # [00:41] <MikeSmith> last I heard it was on its way out
  23. # [00:41] <jgraham> MikeSmith: Pretty sure Moz don't want to implement it
  24. # [00:41] <jgraham> Unless something changed
  25. # [00:41] <MikeSmith> jgraham: that's what I thought too
  26. # [00:42] <MikeSmith> but then in bugzilla.mozilla.org I see open bugs related to it
  27. # [00:42] <MikeSmith> e.g., https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1016888
  28. # [00:42] <MikeSmith> so does that mean it has actually already been implemented in gecko?
  29. # [00:44] <MikeSmith> ah
  30. # [00:44] <MikeSmith> 「Firefox has no plans to support HTML imports though for now it can be enabled through the "dom.webcomponents.enabled" preference in about:config」
  31. # [00:44] <MikeSmith> at caniuse
  32. # [00:45] <Domenic> Has everyone seen dglazkov's HTML modules
  33. # [00:45] <Domenic> re-imaging HTML imports on top of <script type="module">
  34. # [00:45] <Domenic> I like it a lot
  35. # [00:45] <Domenic> https://github.com/dglazkov/webcomponents/blob/html-modules/proposals/HTML-Imports-and-ES-Modules.md
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  38. # [01:05] * MikeSmith looks
  39. # [01:08] <MikeSmith> "this approach effectively replaces all of the HTML Imports machinery with straight-up ES Modules plumbing and leaves only a handful of HTML-specific bits"
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  41. # [01:08] <MikeSmith> nice
  42. # [01:09] <MikeSmith> wonder if anybody from Apple or Mozilla have commented on that yet
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  48. # [01:16] <MikeSmith> ah I guess not, since Domenic was asking, "Has everyone seen dglazkov's HTML modules"... :)
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  53. # [01:31] <miketaylr> did the single page spec @ https://html.spec.whatwg.org/c get removed?
  54. # [01:31] <miketaylr> maybe that should 302 to https://html.spec.whatwg.org/
  55. # [01:32] <miketaylr> oh my bad.
  56. # [01:32] <miketaylr> whatwg.org/c is the shortcut
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  136. # [08:27] <annevk> Domenic: re https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/550#issuecomment-173831401 if those two execution modes are indistinguishable, arguably user agents are allowed to do that already (you can probably observe through the server, but we've mostly come to agreement that doesn't count I believe)
  137. # [08:27] <annevk> Domenic: as for CORS, note that classic workers currently have to be same-origin
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  159. # [09:55] <annevk> tobie: I saw you're still looking for information on Observables, maybe in #jslang on Mozilla IRC, though from what I've heard there's still a lot of controversy around it and not really done
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  161. # [09:56] <annevk> tobie: and unclear how it works with Streams
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  163. # [09:57] <tobie> annevk: Thanks. I'm vaguely aware of the controversy.
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  165. # [09:58] <tobie> annevk: my main issue is that I specifying stuff that could work in both node and the browser
  166. # [09:59] <tobie> And I cant do the former because no common event pattern
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  169. # [10:03] <tobie> annevk: ty for the #jslang pointer, btw. Wasn't aware it was a thing.
  170. # [10:04] <annevk> It seems to be the TC39-counterpart to #whatwg
  171. # [10:04] <tobie> indeed
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  203. # [11:31] <ritsyy1> annevk: as per the spec https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/tables.html#the-th-element , the "sorting th element" needs to be removed as the "the table sorting model" has been removed from the spec, right?
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  207. # [11:40] <Ms2ger> ritsyy1, sounds correct
  208. # [11:43] <ritsyy1> Ms2ger: okay
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  228. # [12:57] <ritsyy1> getting this error while doing the rebase https://paste.kde.org/po3wmemsv
  229. # [12:57] <ritsyy1> annevk: ^
  230. # [13:08] * espadrine_ is now known as espadrine
  231. # [13:09] <MikeSmith> ritsyy1: so there's probably no way to fix those merge conflicts automatically
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  234. # [13:10] <MikeSmith> if you open the source file in an editor and search for ">>>>" you'll find the actual conflict
  235. # [13:11] <MikeSmith> the normal way to fix those conflicts is by manually editing the file to make it say with you want it to say
  236. # [13:11] <MikeSmith> after reviewing the conflict
  237. # [13:11] <MikeSmith> so you edit it do read as it should, and remove the conflict markers
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  239. # [13:12] <MikeSmith> ritsyy1: this is for https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/526 right?
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  241. # [13:14] <ritsyy1> MikeSmith: yes it's for this PR
  242. # [13:15] <MikeSmith> ritsyy1: OK yeah I'm looking at the conflict myself now
  243. # [13:16] <ritsyy1> MikeSmith: the errors are for the image files i removed
  244. # [13:17] <annevk> ritsyy1: no, it's for source, "CONFLICT (content): Merge conflict in source"
  245. # [13:17] <MikeSmith> ritsyy1: yeah I see the messages about the image files for those are just informative, telling you that they are actually being removed
  246. # [13:17] <annevk> ritsyy1: you'll have to figure out what the conflict is, resolve it, and then some combination of git add/git rebase --continue
  247. # [13:18] <annevk> Merge conflicts are no fun 😟
  248. # [13:18] <ritsyy1> MikeSmith: yeah i am seeing that now, thank you
  249. # [13:19] <MikeSmith> the conflict appears to be with the part of the table that has <th> <code data-x="">sizes</code> and <th> <code data-x="">sortable</code> and <th> <code data-x="">sorted</code>
  250. # [13:19] <MikeSmith> yeah, merge conflicts are PITA. Everbody hates dealing with them
  251. # [13:20] <ritsyy1> MikeSmith: i didn't find any ">>>>" in the file
  252. # [13:20] <MikeSmith> ritsyy1: I would guess you want to keep the <th> <code data-x="">sizes</code> part but not the parts for "sortable" and "sorted" there
  253. # [13:20] <MikeSmith> oh it might be that it puts different conflict markers
  254. # [13:21] <MikeSmith> the conflict is at line 114569 of the source file
  255. # [13:21] <ritsyy1> MikeSmith: okay i am seeing that
  256. # [13:21] <MikeSmith> that is the Attributes index I guess
  257. # [13:22] <MikeSmith> so it's not a big problem
  258. # [13:22] <MikeSmith> but it should be made to match what's in the body of the text
  259. # [13:23] <MikeSmith> so if the "sortable" and "sorted" attibutes have been dropped, then you shoudl (re)remove them from that table of the index
  260. # [13:23] <MikeSmith> but leave the "sizes" row
  261. # [13:23] <MikeSmith> I think
  262. # [13:23] <MikeSmith> I'm not sure why you ended up with that conflict, but you can fix it that way
  263. # [13:24] <ritsyy1> MikeSmith: yes got that, yeah you are right
  264. # [13:24] <MikeSmith> OK. I have to step away for a bit but will be back in another hour or so if you still need help with unwinding it
  265. # [13:24] <MikeSmith> but in the mean time it looks like annevk is back around now too
  266. # [13:24] <ritsyy1> MikeSmith: no no i'll do this fix now, thanks :)
  267. # [13:26] <annevk> I guess zcorpan recently added sizes="" so that's probably why there's a conflict
  268. # [13:27] <zcorpan> yep
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  272. # [13:51] <ritsyy1> annevk: yeah it was because of that commit, but i did that mistake of removing sizes row too, conflicts free PR looks good https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/526 :)
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  284. # [14:27] <annevk> ritsyy1: should I review seamless first?
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  288. # [14:33] <ritsyy1> annevk: yeah i did the fixes in that too, i thought to tell you here, but forgot that :-/
  289. # [14:34] <annevk> ritsyy1: it seems one sentence there is still over a 100 characters
  290. # [14:34] <annevk> ritsyy1: ' <dfn><code data-x="dom-iframe-srcdoc">srcdoc</code></dfn>, <dfn><code data-x="dom-iframe-name">name</code></dfn>, and'
  291. # [14:35] <annevk> oh maybe I'm not looking at the correct version
  292. # [14:36] <annevk> Indeed, I was not, looking good
  293. # [14:36] <ritsyy1> annevk: yay
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  295. # [14:41] <annevk> I filed https://github.com/Fyrd/caniuse/issues/2232 against caniuse.com so the warning can be removed from the build script
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  298. # [14:46] <ritsyy1> annevk: great, thanks \o/
  299. # [14:47] <annevk> I also closed the bugs mentioned in the build script
  300. # [14:50] <ritsyy1> annevk: oh yeah those 2 bugs, great :)
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  306. # [15:05] <hsivonen> UTF-16 variants turn into UTF-8 in form submission and URLs and replacement encodes like UTF-8. Is there a defined term for the encoding that's used for output (i.e. UTF-8) in these cases?
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  308. # [15:05] <hsivonen> annevk: ^
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  310. # [15:06] <hsivonen> annevk: OK if I mint a concept "output encoding" and define that the output encoding of an encoding is the encoding itself except UTF-8 for utf-16be, utf-16le and replacement
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  312. # [15:06] <hsivonen> (that is, I want a term for the docs I'm writing and I want consistent terminology in case WHATWG specs mint a term for the same concept in the future)
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  317. # [15:10] <hsivonen> actually, docs are secondary. I want to name a method in an API
  318. # [15:11] <annevk> There is no term right now, though "output" and "encoder" don't quite align perhaps?
  319. # [15:12] <hsivonen> I'm not sure I understand the non-alignment
  320. # [15:12] <hsivonen> it's not "output encoder" but "output encoding"
  321. # [15:13] <hsivonen> then you'd create an encoder for the output encoding
  322. # [15:13] <hsivonen> and if we remove the UTF-16 encoders from the platform, I'd change the definition of new_encoder() API call to create an encoder for the output encoding of this encoding
  323. # [15:14] <hsivonen> anyway, I'm looking for a qualifier for "encoding" that means the encoding that's used for form submission and URL query strings
  324. # [15:15] <hsivonen> from the point of view of this encoding where this encoding is the encoding of the page
  325. # [15:16] <annevk> Perhaps the non-alignment is that in the spec "replacement" would still be the encoding, it's just that replacement's encoder is utf-8's encoder
  326. # [15:16] <hsivonen> could be "submission encoding" instead of "output encoding" assuming that "submission" is considered to cover the query string, too, which is kinda related to submission
  327. # [15:18] <annevk> Although maybe that is wrong and there is indeed a need for an output encoding instead, since if we mention the encoding somewhere we wouldn't want to say "replacement"
  328. # [15:18] <hsivonen> annevk: indeed, but consider: if you use script to add a form to a doc whose encoding is replacement, would you want the _charset_ field to say "replacement" or "utf-8"?
  329. # [15:19] <hsivonen> I'd say "utf-8", since "replacement" is not a label
  330. # [15:19] <annevk> I think you are correct, but this will require some cleaning up in the specification too
  331. # [15:21] <annevk> I will file an issue
  332. # [15:21] <hsivonen> annevk: thanks
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  338. # [15:35] <zcorpan> TabAtkins: pls check https://github.com/tabatkins/bikeshed/issues/572 when you have time :-)
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  347. # [15:51] <JakeA> wanderview: I really want to link to my favourite bit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFzR00NzQ1c - but there's an editing glitch towards the end :/
  348. # [15:51] <JakeA> Getting them to fix it
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  352. # [16:12] <annevk> TabAtkins: I updated bikeshed, now when I generate DOM a whole set of IDs changes
  353. # [16:12] <annevk> TabAtkins: e.g., https://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#canceled-flag would no longer work if I committed this
  354. # [16:12] <annevk> TabAtkins: that seems bad
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  364. # [16:37] <annevk> TabAtkins: Compat Standard is bikeshed too
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  368. # [16:38] <annevk> TabAtkins: Streams (perhaps a variant, or with additional processing), Notifications
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  372. # [16:50] <annevk> MikeSmith: did you know about https://w3c-html-ig-zh.github.io/notifications/whatwg/?
  373. # [16:50] <annevk> MikeSmith: seems pretty cool, bit out of date, but still
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  379. # [17:08] <nox> annevk: How are standards' translations received, in general, around here?
  380. # [17:09] <annevk> I think it's great
  381. # [17:10] <annevk> Sadly we don't have the resources of the EU, to make this stuff accessible to all
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  383. # [17:10] <annevk> And sadly keeping up with the everchanging landscape is hard
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  391. # [17:43] <beverloo> annevk, do you have any strong feelings about having a `notificationclose` event or not?
  392. # [17:44] <beverloo> I argued for removing it a year or two ago, but some fair use-cases have come up since and we might want to introduce it again
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  400. # [18:00] <TabAtkins> annevk: Yeah, had to start disambiguating anything with a `for`. Otherwise <dfn for=Foo>bar</dfn> and <dfn for=Baz>bar</dfn> would both try to generate a #bar id.
  401. # [18:02] <TabAtkins> I'm happy to find the changing IDs and give you a PR that locks them into their old values.
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  404. # [18:04] <TabAtkins> (I can't just let it generate a simple ID and only disambiguate if there's a collision, as that would make IDs unstable from unrelated edits.)
  405. # [18:05] <TabAtkins> (I could leave it alone entirely and let people hit the "two things have the same ID" error when it happens, but it seems friendlier for the future to make it silently work, and eat a little bit of compat pain now.)
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  407. # [18:08] * wilsonpage is now known as wilsonpage-away
  408. # [18:09] * TabAtkins will work on the ID-locking PR this mornign.
  409. # [18:09] <Domenic> annevk: the execution modes are distinguishable, becuase you can run code between imports. So e.g. `import './a.js'; foo(); import './b.js';` where `b.js` 404s. If we do a two-stage async version, foo never executes (the error occurs in the first stage). If we do a sync import, then foo executes and the error only occurs on the `import './b.js'` line.
  410. # [18:10] <annevk> TabAtkins: ta
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  413. # [18:10] <annevk> beverloo: nah
  414. # [18:10] <annevk> beverloo: been trying to get some Mozillians involved that work on the implementation, but no luck thus far
  415. # [18:11] <TabAtkins> annevk: I think DOM is the heaviest user of the "dfn-type definition with a for" pattern right now, so you're the most affected. ^_^
  416. # [18:11] <beverloo> annevk, yeah, Jonas' new focus is kind of a bummer for us
  417. # [18:11] <annevk> TabAtkins: url too, though I think I use a lot of explicit IDs there
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  419. # [18:11] <annevk> beverloo: pretty happy he's not doing Firefox OS anymore, personally
  420. # [18:11] <beverloo> annevk, hah :)
  421. # [18:11] <beverloo> I read your blog post
  422. # [18:11] <annevk> new project seems much more exciting
  423. # [18:12] <beverloo> I'm sure, but it still leaves a bit of a gap in Mozilla-side feedback on the functional bits of the API
  424. # [18:12] <beverloo> thanks for trying to engage other people
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  426. # [18:22] * jgraham wonders what he is doing now
  427. # [18:22] <jgraham> sicking I mean
  428. # [18:22] <jgraham> Although I also often wonder what I am doing
  429. # [18:23] <annevk> jgraham: https://github.com/flyweb
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  431. # [18:27] <jgraham> Ah right
  432. # [18:28] <jgraham> Definitely an element of Opera Did It First to that
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  436. # [18:41] <TabAtkins> annevk: Ok, PR ready. Do you want dom.html included? Only changes are the date, obvs, and a few small updates to boilerplate markup, which doesn't affect the spec visually at all (I checked).
  437. # [18:42] <annevk> TabAtkins: both is fine
  438. # [18:47] <TabAtkins> k, PR waiting for you now. Sorry for the disruption, but it's for the future best. ^_^
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  442. # [19:14] <annevk> ta
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  448. # [19:39] <smaug____> jgraham: how does one add a new wpt test
  449. # [19:39] <smaug____> add the file and then what?
  450. # [19:40] <smaug____> there was some magic one need to do after that
  451. # [19:40] <smaug____> (this is in mozilla tree)
  452. # [19:41] <yury`m> smaug____: there is README.md https://dxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/testing/web-platform/README.md
  453. # [19:42] <yury`m> smaug____: mach web-platform-tests-create will do the magical manifest update
  454. # [19:43] <smaug____> mach web-platform-tests --manifest-update <path> is perhaps the one I need
  455. # [19:44] <smaug____> yury`m: thanks
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  457. # [19:45] <smaug____> that caused some rather unexpected changes though
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  460. # [19:46] <yury`m> smaug____: it needs to update manifest(s)
  461. # [19:47] <smaug____> sure, but it made some totally unrelated changes
  462. # [19:47] <smaug____> but should be now after manually fixing those cases
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  464. # [19:48] <smaug____> s/now/fine now/
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  468. # [19:53] <jgraham> smaug____: There's also mach web-platform-tests-create these days
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  470. # [19:55] <smaug____> I used the script which is used for other tests too
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  472. # [19:59] <jgraham> Out of interest, what were the unexpected manifest changes?
  473. # [20:02] <smaug____> jgraham: it moved random stuff in MANIFEST.json
  474. # [20:03] <smaug____> the expected one was to add a new file to MANIFEST.json
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  476. # [20:04] <smaug____> perhaps someone has modified that file manually and the script uses some different ordering for file entries?
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  483. # [20:31] <jgraham> smaug____: OK. If it happens again send me a diff, perhaps?
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  488. # [20:54] <smaug____> jgraham: one thing not clear to me is when to create a new test
  489. # [20:54] <smaug____> and when to just put more assert_*() inside the function
  490. # [20:56] <smaug____> I already added function is(val, expected, comment) { test(function() {assert_equals(val, expected, comment )}) }, but decided to remove it since perhaps it isn't the wpt style
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  495. # [21:19] <jgraham> smaug____: Each test is a unit of pass/fail and will stop at the first assert that fails. So generally more tests is better than more unrelated asserts in the same test, but it's obviously better to have more asserts in a single test than to not write the tests at al
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  497. # [21:21] <smaug____> jgraham: well, I would assume all the asserts in a file are related
  498. # [21:22] <smaug____> but ok, this is up to the test writer to split to smaller tests or just have one test and several asserts in it
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  501. # [21:48] <smaug____> jgraham: how do I see (in terminal perhaps) the output from all the asserts?
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  515. # [22:31] <jgraham> smaug____: You can't
  516. # [22:34] <smaug____> ok
  517. # [22:34] <smaug____> jgraham: see my question in moznet #content
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