/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2016-01-27 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Jan 27 00:00:01 2016
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:01] <MikeSmith> hober: still hoping a link[rel=mask-icon] spec will appear on the scene soon
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  84. # [03:45] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: re: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Jun/0053.html why isn't Grid 2 done yet? Pffff. Slacker!
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  87. # [03:48] <paradisaeidae> If you're in Sydney on 4th Feb: http://www.meetup.com/SVG-AU/events/228075250/
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  90. # [03:57] <MikeSmith> paradisaeidae: I'm only going if heycam will also be there
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  92. # [04:00] <TabAtkins> gsnedders: I didn't give a deadline on purpose!
  93. # [04:01] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: :(
  94. # [04:01] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: it would really help me now plz and thx
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  98. # [04:08] <paradisaeidae> Hi MikeSmith, heycam availability is 'uncertain'.
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  105. # [04:24] <MikeSmith> paradisaeidae: well mark me as uncertain also then
  106. # [04:24] <MikeSmith> seriously though I don't actually plan to be there
  107. # [04:25] <MikeSmith> was just trolling\
  108. # [04:25] <MikeSmith> you'll already have enough fun with Doug Schepers being there
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  117. # [04:53] <MikeSmith> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1234567#c1
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  126. # [05:18] <paradisaeidae> trolls welcome!
  127. # [05:18] <paradisaeidae> bringIt.
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  188. # [08:07] <Domenic> philipj: did you see my "While you're at it can you generate a list of URLs left as http: so we can check they are all namespaces/DTDs/etc.?"
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  195. # [08:20] <philipj> Domenic: yep, but I was already writing the following comments :)
  196. # [08:20] <philipj> sorry to make you nervous!
  197. # [08:24] <Domenic> no problem :)
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  200. # [08:35] <ritsyy> philipj: for the issues you pointed out in https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/563#issuecomment-175448060 that needs to be included in the commit message?
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  204. # [08:49] <philipj> ritsyy: If you make the first line "Fix #502: bla bla" that would be good
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  206. # [08:49] <zcorpan> "dot all the ı's" nice one
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  210. # [09:05] <MikeSmith> about comments in https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/563 on the URLs-ending-with-# thing, isn't that the infamous http-range perma-issue that the old TAG spent literally a decade or something discussing?
  211. # [09:07] <MikeSmith> ritsyy: thanks for writing up https://richarupela.wordpress.com/2016/01/26/outreachy-mid-term/ and for previous blog updates about your whatwg contributions you written so far
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  213. # [09:09] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: about https://github.com/whatwg/wattsi/pull/15 code-wise it's fine but what I had wanted to ask you about is if there is if you have a suggestion for how I can test it
  214. # [09:10] <MikeSmith> by changing something locally on the HTML source side rather than caniuse which I can't change directly of course
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  216. # [09:10] <MikeSmith> or I can could I guess change something in the local cache of the caniuse data
  217. # [09:11] <MikeSmith> but right now I don't remember clearly what error case this would prevent
  218. # [09:11] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: yeah or change the code to rewrite some URL before calling CanIUseURLToID maybe
  219. # [09:11] <MikeSmith> OK
  220. # [09:11] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: mainly "seamless not found"
  221. # [09:12] <MikeSmith> hai
  222. # [09:12] <ritsyy> philipj: updated, ta!
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  224. # [09:13] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: this kinda gets back to, it would be nice to have regression tests for the spec build
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  226. # [09:13] <ritsyy> MikeSmith: Thank you :)
  227. # [09:13] <MikeSmith> maybe someday
  228. # [09:13] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: yeah
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  230. # [09:14] <philipj> ritsyy: where did you update it? I already updated and pushed your commit, no need to do anythin more for that issue, I was just saying for next time :)
  231. # [09:20] <ritsyy> philipj: yes, i did only the commit message, if referred some time
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  233. # [09:22] <philipj> ritsyy: ok, no harm in that, but updating the PR at this point isn't necessary
  234. # [09:22] <philipj> thanks for the fixes!
  235. # [09:22] <philipj> if you like fixing URLs I'm sure you could find a lot more that aren't W3C URLs too
  236. # [09:23] <ritsyy> philipj: yeah, will remember
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  238. # [09:24] <ritsyy> philipj: like the URLs fix w3c validator pointed out?
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  240. # [09:27] <philipj> ritsyy: well, you could find more problems like that for sure, but you could also try to extract all HTTP URLs, and write a script to check if changing them to HTTPS works
  241. # [09:28] <philipj> maybe something like wget on both forms and see if they are the same, not sure about the details
  242. # [09:28] <philipj> It's very ow priority, just some tips if you enjoy that kind of thing
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  244. # [09:30] <jochen__> are there any parts in the html spec that require one origin to be an alias for another?
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  246. # [09:30] <jochen__> i.e., not ones that define one origin to be an alias for another
  247. # [09:30] <ritsyy> philipj: yeah, it could be good thing to work on, i will try to do that, thanks :)
  248. # [09:30] <jochen__> but something that checks whether one is already an alias for another
  249. # [09:31] <jochen__> (trying to figure out which operation in blink would map to the "alias" concept)
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  258. # [09:53] <philipj> jochen__: do you mean if the spec ever does the equivalent of x.isAliasOf(y)? If so I don't know the answer, at least
  259. # [09:57] <philipj> jochen__: there's "If the effective script origin of the Document is an alias, set it to the value of the effective script origin (essentially de-aliasing the effective script origin)."
  260. # [09:57] <philipj> (found by looking for concept-origin-alias in the source)
  261. # [09:58] <philipj> that also seems to be the only case, and is x.isAlias() rather than x.isAliasOf(y)
  262. # [09:58] <philipj> HTH
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  266. # [10:16] <philipj> is it a principle of APIs returning promises, that if the promise is rejected the object will be left in its original state?
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  308. # [12:50] <nox> Apple just broke Safari.
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  311. # [12:55] <zcorpan> yay https://codereview.chromium.org/1457783005 (fixes the ugly gradient at the bottom of whatwg specs)
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  338. # [14:17] <jochen__> this whole aliasing concept appears to not be present in Blink :-/
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  349. # [14:40] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: about https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/534 and https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/541 -- it struck me that the spec has requirements for elements that are not in a document, too, but the <template> arguments apply there also probably, except that validators don't check those trees. but an in-browser validator in devtools could...
  350. # [14:41] <annevk> jochen__: origin aliasing?
  351. # [14:41] <annevk> that would be rather curious
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  353. # [14:41] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: also i wonder if we should whine about e.g. <template><source src="" srcset=""></template>
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  356. # [14:44] <jochen__> annevk: is there a test that can tell the difference between origin aliasing and just copying the origin?
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  360. # [14:46] <annevk> jochen__: I'm not sure, iirc this only matters when you set document.domain, it would then not just effect the current document, but also aliased children
  361. # [14:47] <jochen__> ok
  362. # [14:47] <jochen__> so at least in blink, when setting document.domain, we don't touch the security tokens of anything but that document
  363. # [14:48] <jochen__> (where security tokens are the thing used to do access checks)
  364. # [14:49] <zcorpan> jochen__: annevk: how about an about:blank iframe when the parent browsing context has a globally unique identifier as its origin? the spec says the iframe's origin and effective script origin are alias of the creator Document, AFAICT. Would copying a globally unique identifier result in them being same-origin?
  365. # [14:49] <annevk> jochen__: so if you set document.domain, you no longer access <iframe src=about:blank> children?
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  367. # [14:51] <annevk> zcorpan: it would, because the identifier would be equal, but the question is what happens when you change the effective script origin
  368. # [14:53] <annevk> jochen__: <script>function x(el) {document.domain = document.domain; w(el.contentWindow.document)}</script><iframe onload=x(this)></iframe> in http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/ seems to be able to access the document just fine in Blink
  369. # [14:53] <jochen__> interestingly that still works
  370. # [14:54] <annevk> I guess you might implement this in some different way then
  371. # [14:55] <jochen__> hum hum
  372. # [14:55] <jochen__> so maybe this works as follows
  373. # [14:55] <jochen__> the token check fails and then we fall back to comparing the actual origins
  374. # [14:56] <jochen__> which appear to be sharable objects
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  377. # [14:56] <jochen__> according to gdb that's the case
  378. # [14:58] <jochen__> now does somebody know what it means in firefox if you check that principals match
  379. # [14:58] <jochen__> is that checking whether the origins are aliased?
  380. # [14:59] <annevk> smaug____ probably knows that
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  382. # [15:00] <annevk> Maybe you can always copy the origin, but you need to alias the effective script origin
  383. # [15:01] <annevk> But I might be missing a subtlety
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  385. # [15:01] <jochen__> well, basically, i'm still trying to figure out what document.open() should do :)
  386. # [15:02] <jochen__> while firefox' code reads pretty close to what the spec says, it doesn't modify the origin, but it throws an security error if the principal doesn't match
  387. # [15:02] <jochen__> whatever that means
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  391. # [15:06] * smaug____ is not too familiar with all the quirks in .domain handling. bholley is the right person to ask
  392. # [15:06] <annevk> jochen__: I found https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Gecko/Script_security#Security_principals
  393. # [15:06] <smaug____> oh, the question was more about principals
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  395. # [15:08] <smaug____> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/caps/nsIPrincipal.idl#27
  396. # [15:12] <jochen__> thx
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  401. # [15:15] <nox> Hixie_, Domenic: Some links don't work in the forms chapter: https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/forms.html#radio-button-state-%28type=radio%29
  402. # [15:16] <smaug____> jochen__: if I'm reading the code right, setting document.domain does modify the principal of the document, and since that principal can be used also by other documents (about:blank iframes, data: stuff etc), also those should get updated. But better to verify from bholley. He was fighting with .domain not too long ago
  403. # [15:17] * smaug____ has tried to stay away from .domain insanity ;)
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  407. # [15:22] <jochen__> smart move
  408. # [15:23] <annevk> nox: Firefox does something weird there on copy-and-paste
  409. # [15:24] <nox> annevk: I see.
  410. # [15:24] <annevk> nox: with parenthesis, as the link is in the source, that works fine
  411. # [15:24] <annevk> nox: might want to file a bug and copy dao and valentin
  412. # [15:24] <nox> Shouldn't it work even if the characters are escaped, though?
  413. # [15:24] <annevk> nox: I don't think that's how fragments work, though maybe
  414. # [15:24] <nox> Ok.
  415. # [15:26] <annevk> nox: yeah actually, Firefox should decode
  416. # [15:26] <annevk> https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/browsers.html#the-indicated-part-of-the-document
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  418. # [15:26] <annevk> not sure why that is not working
  419. # [15:27] <nox> annevk: Decode what where when?
  420. # [15:27] <nox> annevk: Note that clicking on that link still redirects to forms.html#forms, which I find weird.
  421. # [15:28] <annevk> aah
  422. # [15:28] <annevk> maybe what happens is that the lookup script doesn't decode
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  424. # [15:30] <annevk> nox: yeah okay, not sure where to file a bug, probably against html-build or wattsi
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  426. # [15:31] <annevk> multipage/fragment-links.js doesn't decode the fragment in the same way that browsers are required to do and therefore gets this wrong
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  428. # [15:31] <annevk> however, Firefox escaping that is very curious as well
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  433. # [15:46] <smaug____> so FF seems to inherit domain changes to about:blank iframes as I expected. but perhaps you tested that already
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  435. # [16:01] <miketaylr> zcorpan: around?
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  482. # [18:01] <zcorpan> miketaylr: am now
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  484. # [18:08] <miketaylr> zcorpan: i saw your reply to my question -- thanks!
  485. # [18:08] <miketaylr> just leaving another comment now
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  548. # [20:28] <Domenic> My hobby: replacing 90s era screenshots https://html.spec.whatwg.org/images/sample-url.png with hand-rolled SVGs https://jsbin.com/cocodi/edit?html,output
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  550. # [20:30] <miketaylr> amazing.
  551. # [20:33] <nikkibee> that's cool
  552. # [20:34] <nikkibee> I'm always kinda partial to the blocky look of old screenshots- though the last time I tried using Windows XP I was very frustrated, haha
  553. # [20:34] <Domenic> yeah it is kind of fun history
  554. # [20:35] <Domenic> but this one in particular has broken URLs in it so it's gotta go
  555. # [20:35] <annevk> What is 🗋 and why doesn't it display on my computer
  556. # [20:35] <Domenic> aww
  557. # [20:35] <Domenic> http://www.iemoji.com/view/emoji/1063/new/empty-document
  558. # [20:36] <nikkibee> oh yeah, that doesn't show up for me either
  559. # [20:36] <annevk> That is a nice change though
  560. # [20:36] <nikkibee> broken urls, oh geeze I didn't even think of that. that's a good catch!
  561. # [20:37] <nikkibee> it's kinda messed up how easily historic urls break though
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  566. # [20:38] <Domenic> yeppp
  567. # [20:39] <Domenic> annevk: nikkibee: if we can find something else, maybe a globe like Firefox does, we can use that instead.
  568. # [20:39] <Domenic> 🌎
  569. # [20:39] <Domenic> so colorful :-/
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  571. # [20:42] <annevk> Domenic: Firefox has the info icon
  572. # [20:42] <Domenic> find me a unicode i can use. or a svg path i guess
  573. # [20:42] <annevk> Domenic: we could also not have it as it doesn't really add anything
  574. # [20:42] <Domenic> without it the top bar felt indistinct from the bottom section
  575. # [20:43] <Domenic> woah firefox's actual implementation of <input type=url> + <datalist> is very interesting
  576. # [20:43] <Domenic> it only displays the labels but when you select one it fills in the URL
  577. # [20:44] <annevk> Domenic: ☞
  578. # [20:44] <Domenic> hah
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  602. # [22:03] <annevk> Domenic: so looking at the sortable tables thing again, scope/abbr are definitely only part of HTMLTableHeaderCellElement and have nothing to do with sortable tables
  603. # [22:04] <Domenic> annevk: I am pretty sure they were introduced as part of sortable tables... I also was pretty sure they play into the sorting data model
  604. # [22:05] <Domenic> annevk: the fact remains nobody implements the class split
  605. # [22:06] <Domenic> annevk: yes, scope is used to determine when you click on a th, what sorts
  606. # [22:07] <Domenic> annevk: all of "Forming relationships between data cells and header cells" is sorting
  607. # [22:07] <Domenic> + the whole concept of given header cells "applying" to given tds
  608. # [22:09] <annevk> No that is all from HTML4
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  610. # [22:09] <Domenic> ... weird
  611. # [22:09] <Domenic> i can't find out how else it is used
  612. # [22:10] <annevk> https://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/tables.html#h-11.2.6
  613. # [22:10] <annevk> Forming relationships between data cells and header cells is not sorting, it's just explaining how to read a table
  614. # [22:10] <Domenic> I guess
  615. # [22:11] <Domenic> Just not used by anyone and seems like it's specified in detail way beyond what developers need
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  627. # [22:46] <annevk> It's for assistive technology mostly I suppose
  628. # [22:47] <annevk> So the difference btw is that in HTML4 scope/abbr also applied to <td>
  629. # [22:47] <annevk> That was changed
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  632. # [22:54] <Domenic> yeah that's what's implemented in browsers it seems
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