/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2014-05-22 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu May 22 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
  3. # [00:00] * Quits: @yzen (yzen@moz-C3EA2B28.cable.teksavvy.com) (Ping timeout)
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  10. # [02:19] <@firebot> myk@mozilla.org changed the Assignee on bug 938303 from nobody@mozilla.org to myk@mozilla.org.
  11. # [02:19] <@firebot> myk@mozilla.org cancelled needinfo?(myk@mozilla.org) on bug 938303.
  12. # [02:19] <@firebot> myk@mozilla.org changed the Status on bug 938303 from NEW to ASSIGNED.
  13. # [02:19] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=938303 nor, --, ---, myk, ASSI, Can't disable cmd-q in Firefox on Mac OS X
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  19. # [04:23] <@firebot> m-wada@usa.com changed the Resolution on bug 457973 from --- to DUPLICATE.
  20. # [04:23] <@firebot> m-wada@usa.com changed the Status on bug 457973 from REOPENED to RESOLVED.
  21. # [04:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=457973 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO DUPLICATE, Command-Q quits Firefox regardless of what the "Quit Firefox" keyboard shortcut is set to
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  24. # [04:27] <@firebot> m-wada@usa.com changed the Resolution on bug 646362 from --- to DUPLICATE.
  25. # [04:27] <@firebot> m-wada@usa.com changed the Status on bug 646362 from REOPENED to RESOLVED.
  26. # [04:27] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=646362 nor, --, ---, nobody, RESO DUPLICATE, Mac keyboard shortcut overriding doesn't work properly (Cmd-Q still invokes Quit, even adter new ass
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  30. # [05:18] <@firebot> kwierso@gmail.com changed the Assignee on bug 743580 from nobody@mozilla.org to trev.saunders@gmail.com.
  31. # [05:18] <@firebot> kwierso@gmail.com changed the Resolution on bug 743580 from --- to FIXED.
  32. # [05:18] <@firebot> kwierso@gmail.com changed the Status on bug 743580 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  33. # [05:18] <@firebot> kwierso@gmail.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 743580 from --- to mozilla32.
  34. # [05:19] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=743580 nor, --, mozilla32, trev.saunders, RESO FIXED, firefox can't find libatk-bridge.so when its in a multiarch path
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  45. # [09:10] * ChanServ sets mode: +ao MarcoZ MarcoZ
  46. # [09:19] <slee> MarcoZ: hi
  47. # [09:19] <@MarcoZ> Hi slee!
  48. # [09:20] <slee> is it possibel to deactivate screen reader in FfxOS 1.3? One of out tablet uses locked his and can't reset you can't easily remove battery.
  49. # [09:20] <slee> Ralph daub mentioned in in the lates Sumo meeting
  50. # [09:20] <slee> If there is a solution I'd liek to put it up.
  51. # [09:20] <slee> is there a bug?
  52. # [09:21] * slee cringes at more type-os
  53. # [09:23] <slee> MarcoZ: ^^
  54. # [09:27] <@MarcoZ> slee: In 1.3, there is no easy way to deactivate the screen reader yet. 1.3 was feature-frozen in November, and we only added this for 1.4 early this year.
  55. # [09:27] * Joins: icaaq (icaaq@D2069856.FE797095.222B27F0.IP)
  56. # [09:28] <@MarcoZ> slee: Basically, the only way is to walk into the Developer settings and deactivate it again the same way you activated it. That means, touch or swipe to the relevant element, indicated by highlight, then double-tap to activate.
  57. # [09:28] <slee> The tanlet user said swip would not work so he could not turn off :(
  58. # [09:29] <@MarcoZ> slee: In 1.4, you can press volume up, down, up, down, up, down, wait for an announcement that you should do this again to turn the screen reader on or off (depending on whether it was off or on before), and then again press volume up, down, up, down, up down again.
  59. # [09:29] <@MarcoZ> Swiping does work, but scrolling is done by swiping with two fingers.
  60. # [09:30] <@MarcoZ> Jesus, why do these people all turn on the screen reader when they are not exactly sure what this feature does? :-(
  61. # [09:30] <slee> So you think it should be able to turn off in 1.3 if you remember to act like a screen reader user? Ralph inidcated there was NO way, and the tablet user gave up, though I ecxplained how to double tap
  62. # [09:30] <@MarcoZ> There is a reason it is stuffed away in Dev settings in those versions of Firefox OS because it is not working too well yet.
  63. # [09:31] <@MarcoZ> Yes, there definitely is.
  64. # [09:31] <slee> hehe - fiddly fingers of hackers are worse than liitle kids!
  65. # [09:31] <slee> OK I'll put 1.3 on my ZTE and see.
  66. # [09:31] <@MarcoZ> So slee If you act like a screen reader user, you *can* turn it off in 1.3.
  67. # [09:31] <slee> IS tehre a bug for this I can update?
  68. # [09:32] <slee> So double click and 2 finger swipe should do it?
  69. # [09:32] <@MarcoZ> There was a bug to introduce a quick toggle, but of course it is fixed now.
  70. # [09:32] <slee> ah
  71. # [09:32] <slee> Are there FFx screen reader user docs somehere?
  72. # [09:32] <@MarcoZ> slee: Yes, 2 finger swipe to scroll, single finger swipe to move from item to item, or touch on the screen in a more targeted fashion to highlight an item. The one with the box around it will always get activated once you double-tap.
  73. # [09:33] <@MarcoZ> This is like on Android or iOS.
  74. # [09:33] <@MarcoZ> slee: Nope, not yet, because we haven't made this an official user feature yet.
  75. # [09:33] <slee> what haven't the paent lawyers been in contact yet!? :)
  76. # [09:33] <slee> *patent
  77. # [09:33] <@MarcoZ> slee: Nope :-)
  78. # [09:33] <slee> Consistency is great
  79. # [09:34] <@MarcoZ> I don't think they will, because even Microsoft adopted this paradigm, so everyone does it the same way now, which is good.
  80. # [09:34] <slee> Right - I'll kick off a 1.3 build and respond to stop this one dead
  81. # [09:37] <slee> MarcoZ: I keep meaning to ask how you type so quick - or do you use speech input?
  82. # [09:42] <@MarcoZ> slee: I am a fast typist on a regular or notebook keyboard.
  83. # [09:43] <slee> I was thinkingg touch for some reason - prolly always seeing you with iPhone
  84. # [09:43] <slee> I'm rubbish typist - must make effort to learn properly
  85. # [09:44] <@MarcoZ> Nope, not using IRC on an iPhone or so, just on my regular work notebook I used during my Funka presentation.
  86. # [09:44] <@MarcoZ> slee: Think I'll talk to Chris David Mills to put some basic accessibility documentation on MDN for FF OS, too.
  87. # [09:47] <slee> MarcoZ: good idea!
  88. # [09:48] <slee> I'll put up a warning on Discourse TCP topic for now and then link to anything Chris puts up later
  89. # [09:48] <slee> build is chugging...........
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  91. # [09:53] <@MarcoZ> slee: BTW the bug where we introduced the screen reader quick toggle is https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=957674
  92. # [09:53] <@firebot> Bug 957674 nor, --, 1.4 S3 (14mar), yzenevich, RESO FIXED, Need an easy way to disable the screen reader
  93. # [09:54] <slee> MarcoZ: TVM
  94. # [09:54] <@MarcoZ> Note that this bug went through two iterations after we found that the first mode of interaction didn't work so well on some devices.
  95. # [09:54] <@MarcoZ> So this landed on 1.4.
  96. # [10:04] <slee> Yes I saw that.
  97. # [10:04] <slee> 2 finger scroll not working on my ZTE one. I guess is not multi touch :(
  98. # [10:05] <slee> not sure if tablet is multitouch. But any way single swipe is fine (i'm currently on FFxOS 2 while 1.3 is building)
  99. # [10:05] <slee> MarcoZ: aah faltfish - Screen: 10.1" capacitive multi-touch @ 1280x800
  100. # [10:06] <slee> *flatfish
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  102. # [10:22] <@firebot> m-wada@usa.com requested needinfo from myk@mozilla.org on bug 938303.
  103. # [10:23] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=938303 nor, --, ---, myk, ASSI, Can't disable cmd-q in Firefox on Mac OS X
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  105. # [10:36] <@MarcoZ> slee: Hm, I remember the ZTE Open having a problem with two finger swipes left and right, but worked for me when I turned it sideways and then swiped up and down in landscape. That would do what I needed.
  106. # [10:36] <@MarcoZ> But yeah the ZTE Open (without the C)'s screen is total crap.
  107. # [10:37] <slee> Hmm - i tried both directions before
  108. # [10:37] <@MarcoZ> slee: Hhmmm, yeah, like I said, I had trouble, too.
  109. # [10:37] <slee> is crap I want free upgrade to C - they only offered by £10 off :(
  110. # [10:38] <@MarcoZ> Maybe you need to put the fingers a bit further apart or whatever, it is not easily done on that device. :(
  111. # [10:38] <slee> Will try for a flame when go out on general availability
  112. # [10:38] <@MarcoZ> The Flame is a nice phone. :)
  113. # [10:38] * slee gives the One the v sign
  114. # [10:40] <slee> SO it seem really buggy - log press in settings list selects device below that touched.
  115. # [10:40] <slee> I can select "< Call Settings" but double click does nothing
  116. # [10:41] <slee> sigh
  117. # [10:43] <slee> my bad - is on heading 1 not back link.
  118. # [10:43] <slee> up down 2 finger does random shit :)
  119. # [11:02] <@MarcoZ> :(
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  121. # [11:48] <@MarcoZ> slee: I just added some more info to the general Developer Settings page for Firefox OS re the gestures and what needs to be done to turn the screen reader on and off.
  122. # [11:48] <@MarcoZ> I am just waiting for the updates to make it to the live site, seems to take a while.
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  125. # [12:03] <slee> MarcoZ: Oh cool - I just blogged - but waiting to prove it in 1.3 as build is slooooooooooooooow
  126. # [12:03] <slee> http://opendirective.net/blog/2014/05/help-i-bricked-my-firefox-os-1-3-device-by-enabling-the-accessibility-screen-reader/
  127. # [12:10] <@MarcoZ> slee: Cool! :-)
  128. # [12:15] <slee> MarcoZ: The one require swipe left / right. That MDN page says up/down. Was this what you meant by needing to turn it 90 degrees?
  129. # [12:15] <slee> one = ZTE One
  130. # [12:19] <@MarcoZ> OK, MDN seems to have some sort of review process, my changes don't show up yet: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Debugging/Developer_settings
  131. # [12:19] <@MarcoZ> slee: That's something I just corrected, but the edits don't show up yet.
  132. # [12:19] <slee> MarcoZ: :)
  133. # [12:20] <slee> but you are right 2 finger swipe requires up down and is really intermittent.
  134. # [12:20] <@MarcoZ> slee: In theory, 2 finger swipes work in all four directions, like regular scrolling/swiping with 1 finger when screen reader is off.
  135. # [12:21] <slee> of course! Iwould see left right when in a vertical list
  136. # [12:21] <slee> *wouldn't
  137. # [12:22] * slee still waiting for .config.sh to complete
  138. # [12:24] <@MarcoZ> slee: Heh it downloads the universe...
  139. # [12:33] <slee> MarcoZ: and a few parallel ones too!
  140. # [12:36] <@MarcoZ> slee: Yup! ;)
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  159. # [15:28] <@davidb> yzen, for anything related to wai mailing list membership this is a good contact http://www.w3.org/People/cooper/
  160. # [15:29] <@davidb> heyo!
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  162. # [15:39] <@davidb> surkov, want to chat in about an hour?
  163. # [15:39] <@surkov> it’s ok
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  169. # [15:56] <@yzen> davidb thanks i think i managed to sign up
  170. # [15:57] <@davidb> goood
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  181. # [16:15] <@MarcoZ> Heyo davidb, yzen, surkov!
  182. # [16:15] <@yzen> MarcoZ hi
  183. # [16:16] <@davidb> hi hi hi
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  185. # [16:18] <@surkov> hey, MarcoZ
  186. # [16:24] <@davidb> surkov, is TextRange::EmbeddedChildren testing implicitly?
  187. # [16:24] <@davidb> testing/tested
  188. # [16:25] <@davidb> ok "yes" :)
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  190. # [16:49] * @davidb refreshes himself on http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/xpcom/glue/nsCOMPtr.h#832
  191. # [16:49] <@davidb> man, so rusty
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  193. # [17:05] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Looking forward to seeing what you come up with w.r.t. the utility tray! :-)
  194. # [17:05] <@yzen> MarcoZ :)
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  198. # [17:18] <@davidb> surkov, where did that long list of EAttrs come from?
  199. # [17:18] <@surkov> davidb: UIA spec
  200. # [17:18] <@davidb> ok - google failed
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  205. # [17:28] * @MarcoZ tremendously enjoys some accessibility coaching over in #developers. :-)
  206. # [17:28] <@davidb> go MarcoZ!
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  208. # [17:34] <@MarcoZ> davidb: So if you hadn't noticed, I am taking this a11y review. :-D :-D :-D
  209. # [17:34] <@davidb> I noticed!
  210. # [17:34] * @davidb is pleased
  211. # [17:35] <@davidb> surkov, tbsaunde, burritos in 5 mins?
  212. # [17:35] <@surkov> sounds good
  213. # [17:36] <@davidb> (I'm going to the financial meeting at noon)
  214. # [17:38] * tbsaunde not in office doing laundry
  215. # [17:39] <@davidb> good because we don't have a washing machine
  216. # [17:39] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  217. # [17:40] <tbsaunde> davidb|afk: but a pita in every other way
  218. # [17:42] * @MarcoZ wants a Burrito, too!
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  221. # [17:52] <@yzen> MarcoZ have a sec?
  222. # [17:52] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Yup!
  223. # [17:53] <@yzen> im wondering what you'd find best practice when dealing with media playback stuff, do would you consider all of the controls a toolbar ?
  224. # [17:54] <@yzen> MarcoZ also those widgets have a block of markup that represents are meta data about the current track - e.g. album art, artist and track
  225. # [17:54] <@yzen> MarcoZ if toolbar is a good practice, do you think i can point to the metadata block with described by or you would expect to land on that block separately ?
  226. # [17:55] <@MarcoZ> yzen: Hm, yes, they would probably be tool bar items.
  227. # [17:55] <@MarcoZ> yzen: I would want to land on that block separately, to be able to review the bits individually.
  228. # [17:56] <@MarcoZ> Remember this is quite some information, the artist, the album, and possibly other stuff one would want to review at one's leisure.
  229. # [17:56] <@yzen> sounds good
  230. # [17:56] <@yzen> thanks MarcoZ :)
  231. # [17:57] <@MarcoZ> yzen: You're welcome! aria-describedby (or anything that lands in accessible.description) is *additional* information. In theory, things should even be clear without that. So this is definitely not a candidate for this secondary info.
  232. # [18:03] * davidb|afk is now known as davidb
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  237. # [18:41] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1014673 filed by marco.zehe@googlemail.com.
  238. # [18:41] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1014673 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Frequent loss of focus when navigating around web pages with NVDA
  239. # [18:49] * Quits: maxli (maxli@moz-4D28BA20.student.cs.uwaterloo.ca) (Quit: Leaving.)
  240. # [18:57] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
  241. # [19:17] <@firebot> CoolCmd@gmail.com changed the Component on bug 1014690 from Untriaged to Keyboard Navigation.
  242. # [19:18] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1014690 nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, Focus remains on <A> after deleting attribute "HREF"
  243. # [19:19] * Joins: maxli (maxli@moz-4D28BA20.student.cs.uwaterloo.ca)
  244. # [19:23] <@davidb> tbsaunde, should be able to start review later today/tonight
  245. # [19:28] * Gijs_away is now known as Gijs
  246. # [19:30] <tbsaunde> davidb: ack
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  253. # [19:48] <jwei> tbsaunde: ping
  254. # [19:48] <@firebot> marco.zehe@googlemail.com requested needinfo from jamie@nvaccess.or g on bug 1014673.
  255. # [19:48] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1014673 maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Frequent loss of focus when navigating around web pages with NVDA
  256. # [19:53] * agibson is now known as agibson|afk
  257. # [19:54] <@yzen> eeejay ping
  258. # [19:59] * Joins: ninjanoisy (Adium@moz-62518563.mtv2.mozilla.com)
  259. # [19:59] <@davidb> ninjanoisy hi! http://wiki.komodoopenlab.com/
  260. # [20:00] <@davidb> ninjanoisy http://gettecla.com/pages/tecla
  261. # [20:01] <@davidb> I want to give them the ability to make tecla work with ffos
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  265. # [20:07] <@davidb> ninjanoisy http://html5accessibility.com/
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  269. # [20:20] <@eeejay> yzen, yo
  270. # [20:20] <@yzen> eeejay im looking at notifications and wanted your opinion . i m adding aria-live to the notification toasters and they work nice
  271. # [20:21] <@eeejay> yzen, cool!
  272. # [20:21] <@yzen> eeejay one thing i was concerned about is the lack of focus, since in most cases those notifications are actually activatable
  273. # [20:23] <@yzen> do you think i should explicitly do that ?
  274. # [20:23] <@eeejay> yzen, put focus on it? no
  275. # [20:24] <@eeejay> yzen, if they want to activate it, they could go to the drawer and activate it from there.
  276. # [20:24] <@yzen> true
  277. # [20:24] <@yzen> alright
  278. # [20:26] * agibson is now known as agibson|afk
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  280. # [20:28] <@yzen> eeejay huh nice reply on 1011807
  281. # [20:28] <@eeejay> always glad to be an a11y expert
  282. # [20:39] <tbsaunde> jwei: pong
  283. # [20:39] <jwei> tbsaunde: Hey. Was just wondering about bug 1011736.
  284. # [20:39] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1011736 cri, --, ---, jwei, NEW, crash in mozilla::a11y::Accessible::Shutdown()
  285. # [20:40] <tbsaunde> jwei: I figured
  286. # [20:40] <tbsaunde> if you want to land your patch that's fine with me, I meant to r+ it this morning then laundry eat me
  287. # [20:41] <jwei> tbsaunde: Ah, okay. I agree that the additional run-time null check isn't really preferable, though.
  288. # [20:42] <tbsaunde> jwei: if you don't mind working more I'd be happy to see you do what I suggested ;)
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  290. # [20:45] <jwei> tbsaunde: I wouldn't mind doing the proper solution - just that I'm guessing the crash fix is relatively time-sensitive.
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  292. # [20:52] <tbsaunde> jwei: yeah, I think we should land something in the next day or two
  293. # [20:52] <tbsaunde> no presure to fix the follow up btw
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  295. # [20:58] <jwei> tbsaunde: Okay, then I'll land the simple fix after the Bugzilla r+. I'll take a look at the proper fix for a followup after that.
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  298. # [21:15] <@eeejay> yzen, what role are you giving the quick settings?
  299. # [21:16] <@yzen> eeejay toolbar
  300. # [21:16] <@eeejay> yzen, ah
  301. # [21:17] <@eeejay> yzen, ok. i think that as a rule, a control that launches another app should be a link. this may be an exception
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  303. # [21:17] <@yzen> eeejay do you mean a shortcut to setting ?
  304. # [21:17] <@eeejay> yzen, yeah
  305. # [21:18] * @eeejay needs to look at it. one sec
  306. # [21:18] <@yzen> eeejay there's also some complexity when it can be both, e.g. button to disable enable data or (if no SIM and such) a link to settings app
  307. # [21:19] <@eeejay> yzen, i know. that is why that section might need to be an exception to that rule
  308. # [21:19] <@yzen> eeejay ok
  309. # [21:19] <@eeejay> yzen, btw, you have a tarako?
  310. # [21:20] <@yzen> flame
  311. # [21:20] <@eeejay> yzen, cool. i got a tarako yesterday. when i have a minute, i'll build and test on that as well
  312. # [21:20] <@yzen> wow nice
  313. # [21:21] <@eeejay> looks almost identical to the inari
  314. # [21:21] <@eeejay> yzen, what bug were you and marco discussing the swipe stuff?
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  316. # [21:22] <@yzen> i dont think it was a particular one but these 2 have some wheel events: bug 1014761 and bug 1014771
  317. # [21:22] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1014761 nor, --, ---, yzenevich, NEW, Fix screen reader visibility of the utility tray.
  318. # [21:22] <@firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1014771 nor, --, ---, yzenevich, NEW, Make notifications in the utility tray accessible.
  319. # [21:28] <@yzen> eeejay these are all now, let me know if you something needs to be changed
  320. # [21:29] <@eeejay> yzen, you said you and marco had a thread?
  321. # [21:30] <@yzen> http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/accessibility/20140521#l-253
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The end :)