/irc-logs / mozilla / #developers / 2012-02-10 / end

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# Session Start: Fri Feb 10 00:00:00 2012
# Session Ident: #developers
# [00:00] <jhammel> bent: nice :)
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# [00:01] <darktrojan> awesome
# [00:01] <darktrojan> (what is it?)
# [00:02] <jhammel> does it matter? ;)
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# [00:03] <Waldo> absolutely nothing (say it again y'all)
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# [00:05] <josh> snorp, blassey: I have a fix for the Android click-to-play plugin bug.
# [00:05] <josh> Problem was that we don't give the new instance a data stream after canceling the first one for the click-to-play UI.
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# [00:09] <RyanVM> mattwoodrow++++++++++++
# [00:10] <mattwoodrow> :)
# [00:10] <josh> RyanVM: What did he do?
# [00:10] <mattwoodrow> assigned a bug to myself
# [00:10] <armenzg> !seen kev
# [00:10] <firebot> kev was last seen 34 minutes and 38 seconds ago, saying 'Google's rolling back the change they made, so searches without cookies should work in the next couple hours' in #planning.
# [00:11] <RyanVM> josh: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=539356#c37
# [00:11] <josh> nice
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# [00:15] <surender_> bent
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# [00:18] <snorp> josh: awesome stuff, thanks a lot
# [00:18] <josh> snorp: will post a patch in a few minutes
# [00:18] <snorp> great
# [00:18] <snorp> josh: I guess LoadObject was somehow triggering that before and now it doesn't?
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# [00:19] <josh> snorp: sort of, you'll see in the patch
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# [00:25] <Waldo> bz: I thought mozillazine was trying to get out of the business of hosting blogs; you have any reason to worry they might pull the rug out from under you?
# [00:27] <gavin> there was a security bug in the software they used that took a while to get fixed
# [00:27] <gavin> so some people moved off of it
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# [00:47] * @khuey removes himself from the CC list of 578828
# [00:47] <mcsmurf> firebot: Bug 578828
# [00:47] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=578828 enh, --, ---, nobody, NEW, Default to not allowing onbeforeunload dialogs
# [00:48] <mcsmurf> :)
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# [00:55] <jduell> So we have no way to tell mochitests to break/drop into a debugger when an ok() fails? meh
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# [01:09] <RyanVM> ruh roh
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# [01:09] <RyanVM> nsToolkitCompsModule.cpp
# [01:09] <RyanVM> c:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft SDKs\Windows\v7.0A\include\msoav.h(18) : error C2146: syntax error : missing ';' before identifier 'lpstg'
# [01:09] <RyanVM> c:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft SDKs\Windows\v7.0A\include\msoav.h(18) : error C4430: missing type specifier - int assumed. Note: C++ does not support default-int
# [01:09] <RyanVM> c:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft SDKs\Windows\v7.0A\include\msoav.h(18) : error C4430: missing type specifier - int assumed. Note: C++ does not support default-int
# [01:09] <RyanVM> c:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft SDKs\Windows\v7.0A\include\msoav.h(36) : error C2065: 'IOfficeAntiVirus' : undeclared identifier
# [01:09] <RyanVM> c:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft SDKs\Windows\v7.0A\include\msoav.h(36) : error C2065: 'IUnknown' : undeclared identifier
# [01:10] <RyanVM> c:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft SDKs\Windows\v7.0A\include\msoav.h(37) : error C2448: 'DECLARE_INTERFACE_' : function-style initializer appears to be a function definition
# [01:10] <RyanVM> someone done broke building on the win7 sdk?
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# [01:16] <jimm> working fine here
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# [01:18] <RyanVM> hrm
# [01:18] <RyanVM> that was a straight trunk pull
# [01:18] <RyanVM> i'll try clearing my objdir
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# [01:30] <RyanVM> jimm: more likely, it's due to something I have disabled on my build
# [01:30] <RyanVM> and not enough ifdefs
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# [01:42] <jimm> RyanVM: virus scanner interfaces in the download manager?
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# [01:48] <RyanVM> yeah, dunno
# [01:50] <Waldo> we run any virus scanner registered with Windows against all downloads as they complete, probably that
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# [02:02] <RyanVM> I do disable: ac_add_options --disable-maintenance-service
# [02:02] <RyanVM> ac_add_options --disable-parental-controls
# [02:02] <RyanVM> ac_add_options --disable-safe-browsing
# [02:02] <RyanVM> it died again
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# [02:07] <jimm> msoav.h(18) - LPSTORAGE lpstg;
# [02:07] <jimm> LPSTORAGE is in ObjIdl.h
# [02:08] <jimm> that's been around since win2k
# [02:08] <jimm> don't know
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# [02:09] <zwol> I don't know how to star this android-XUL J1 failure on aurora ("string-001.js | load failed: timed out waiting for reftest-wait to be removed")
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# [02:10] <philor> zwol: two ways: file it, or, retrigger and star it "these don't happen on the same test often enough to be worth filing"
# [02:10] <zwol> well, with no LDAP account it's hard for me to do 2)
# [02:10] <RyanVM> jimm: Neither do I. The one file that includes msoav.h hasn' changed in like 4 months. Likewise for nsToolkitCompsModule.cpp
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# [02:11] <RyanVM> jimm: I'll start commenting things out of my .mozconfig until I figure it out
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# [02:12] <philor> no LDAP? how did you manage to push?
# [02:12] <zwol> well, I have an SSH key in there somewhere
# [02:12] <zwol> but no password
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# [02:12] <zwol> and frankly I don't want one, because then I'd have to change it about as often as I'd use it
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# [02:12] <philor> nope, we non-employees never change them
# [02:12] <zwol> o rly.
# [02:13] <philor> rly
# [02:13] <philor> file a bug to get it reset to something you know, stick it in your browser's memory, and retrigger for life
# [02:13] <zwol> (also, you're doing all this starring as a volunteer? dude. I owe you a beer sometime.)
# [02:13] <jhammel> we all owe philor a beer
# [02:14] <nthomas> at this point we owe him several tankers worth
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# [02:14] <jhammel> unfortunately, if philor drank all of the beer he was owed, he would be too drunk to star
# [02:14] <darktrojan> he stars better when drunk
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# [02:22] <philor> and no, I don't want to explain how to star that R2 on the push above it
# [02:23] <philor> since the way to find the bug involves having loaded it often enough while it had honey badger in the summary so that "honey" in the addressbar still brings it up
# [02:23] <dholbert> honey badger don't care that you don't want to explain
# [02:23] <edmorley> lol
# [02:23] <edmorley> jmaher: xerf seems busted on the talos update https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?rev=fb81c9a433e4
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# [02:34] <jlebar> jwir3|away, Perhaps could do |try = push -f ssh://hg.mozilla.org/try && hg phase --force --draft "mq()"|
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# [02:59] <jmaher|afk> edmorley: I see that; We have some other related fixed, let me hurry those in;
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# [03:26] <mcpherrin> If I have an empty Location: header, that's invalid? Some website I'm using occasionally seems to have this; firefox errors (corrupt content). Dunno if it was a firefox update or a website problem that started causing it.
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# [03:27] <lsumar> is there somebody that can help with a question about the code in nsLayoutUtils.cpp?
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# [03:30] <mattwoodrow> lsumar: I can try
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# [03:51] <jduell> mcpherrin: yes, empty Location is now a hard error.
# [03:51] <jduell> and it's gonna stay that way
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# [03:52] <jduell> (I'd tell you why, but how do I know you're the real 'mcpherrin'? :)
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# [03:52] <jtcranmer> what is the jsapi equivalent for saying new Foo?
# [03:52] <jduell> bz: ping
# [03:52] <mcpherrin> jduell: Because I'm auth'd to nickserv? :P I can imagine reasons empty Locations would be bad...
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# [03:53] <mcpherrin> some dumb peoplesoft systems at waterloo are giving empty Locations occasionally, which is annoying since I need to use them :P
# [03:53] <jduell> Peoplesoft? Yikes, that's a big one to break
# [03:53] <jduell> Lemme look up the bug real quick
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# [03:56] <jduell> mcpherrin: see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=699502
# [03:56] <jduell> comment there if there's more to say--I gotta run for now
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# [04:04] * Waldo respectfully submits that the example at https://developer.mozilla.org/en/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Function#Example is insane
# [04:05] <jtcranmer> Waldo: most of that guide seems insane
# [04:06] <Waldo> quite possible
# [04:06] <Waldo> context for that page was https://bugs.ecmascript.org/show_bug.cgi?id=263 which was originally filed against us, complaining about the removal of arguments.callee in strict mode code, iirc
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# [04:26] <nmatsakis> apropos of nothing, any advice on a page to go to where one can find HTML/CSS examples for mobile phones? e.g., a sample web form that looks nice and modern-y, etc? Basically I'd like to experiment with making a web page for mobile phones but I suck at visual design.
# [04:26] <nmatsakis> in particular I need to make a form with a few text fields
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# [04:27] <RyanVM> jimm: Well, I've narrowed it down to disabling one of safe-browsing and parental-controls
# [04:27] <RyanVM> jimm: the latter seems more likely
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# [04:44] <darktrojan> dolske, are you about?
# [04:44] <@dolske> no, I'm a human!
# [04:44] <darktrojan> ahaha
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# [04:45] <@dolske> was there a followup to this? :)
# [04:45] <Unfocused> that's what an about would say
# [04:46] <darktrojan> yeah my brain is being slow
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# [05:00] <jbuck> nmatsakis: http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/base-css.html#forms ?
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# [05:00] <nmatsakis> jbuck: thanks
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# [05:16] * @bz reads article, can't believe numbers
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# [05:16] <@bz> I guess there must be operating costs....
# [05:16] * @bz wonders what those are
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# [05:16] <@khuey> what are we operating?
# [05:16] <@bz> nuclear reactors
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# [05:17] <@khuey> mmm
# [05:17] <@bz> These are the first licenses to be issued since the Three Mile Island incident in 1979. The pair of facilities will cost $14 billion and produce 2.2 GW of power
# [05:17] <@bz> quote and end-quote
# [05:17] <Unfocused> surely they would be able to split the costs?
# [05:17] <@bz> so I took that construction cost
# [05:17] <@bz> and divided by 2.2e6
# [05:17] <@bz> to get cost per kilowatt
# [05:17] <@khuey> right
# [05:18] <@bz> Then divided by 24 and 365
# [05:18] <@bz> to get cost per kilowatt hour if recouped over a year
# [05:18] <@bz> I get 72 cents
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# [05:18] <@khuey> well it's not recouped over a year ...
# [05:18] <@khuey> which is why your cost is so high
# [05:18] <@bz> precisely
# [05:19] <@bz> my electricity is in the 10-15 cent per kWh range
# [05:19] <@khuey> right
# [05:19] <@bz> which means these should recoup over 6 years
# [05:19] <@bz> which is insanely short
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# [05:19] <jhammel> ignoring operating cost
# [05:19] <@bz> right!
# [05:19] <@khuey> so, there's operating costs
# [05:19] <@bz> hence the question about operating costs
# [05:19] <@khuey> which actually aren't *that* high
# [05:19] * jhammel missed that part ;)
# [05:19] <jdm> yay, woo is working again
# [05:19] * @bz includes insurance premiums in operating costs... ;)
# [05:19] <@khuey> operating costs per kWh are lower for nuclear than about anything else
# [05:19] <@bz> right
# [05:19] <@khuey> bz: Price Anderson
# [05:20] <@bz> which is why electricity is cheap in France
# [05:20] <@khuey> insurance premiums aren't that high
# [05:20] * @bz bets
# [05:20] <@bz> huh
# [05:20] * @bz googles Price Anderson, ok
# [05:20] <@bz> so what's the catch? ;)
# [05:20] <@bz> assuming that $14e9 estimate is correct
# [05:20] <@khuey> bz: the maximum amount of insurance available on the private market is only 375 million / unit
# [05:20] <@khuey> which doesn't cost that much
# [05:20] <@khuey> in relative terms
# [05:21] <@khuey> so, in no particular order
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# [05:21] <@bz> as in, the policy will pay out $375e6?
# [05:21] <@khuey> right
# [05:21] <@bz> ok
# [05:21] <@khuey> there's the capacity factor
# [05:21] <@bz> that should be cheap
# [05:21] <@khuey> the reactor will be offline sometimes
# [05:21] <@bz> mmm
# [05:21] <@khuey> figure it's online maybe 85% of the time
# [05:21] <@khuey> that might be slightly on the low side
# [05:21] <@bz> I guess if they're listing peak power....
# [05:22] <@bz> ok
# [05:22] <@khuey> well, when reactors are on they run pretty much at 100%
# [05:22] * @bz kinda hopes 85% is low side....
# [05:22] * glob is now known as glob|away
# [05:22] <@khuey> but you have to turn them off to refuel
# [05:22] <@bz> right
# [05:22] <@bz> or whenever the water gets too warm or whatnot
# [05:22] <@khuey> well, not if you build your plant in the right place ;-)
# [05:22] <@bz> khuey: ;)
# [05:22] <@khuey> fwiw, 91% is the industry average for a capacity factor
# [05:22] <@khuey> so 85% is indeed low
# [05:22] <@bz> ok
# [05:22] <@bz> interesting
# [05:22] <@khuey> there's financing
# [05:23] <@khuey> borrowing 14 billion isn't cheap
# [05:23] * @bz would have expected higher, but....
# [05:23] <@bz> heh
# [05:23] <@bz> alright, fair
# [05:23] <@khuey> capital costs actually are the big killer
# [05:23] <@khuey> or at least they were for my reactor design in my senior design class
# [05:23] <@bz> capital costs being which?
# [05:23] <@bz> cost of capital?
# [05:23] <@bz> or of capital equipment?
# [05:23] <@khuey> cost of capital
# [05:23] <@bz> ok
# [05:24] <@bz> that's ... interesting
# [05:24] <@khuey> and the corresponding discount you have to have on future profits
# [05:24] <@bz> right
# [05:24] <@khuey> there's operating costs, which are fairly low
# [05:24] <@khuey> in theory you have to decommission the thing
# [05:24] <@khuey> but we kinda play that one fast and loose
# [05:24] <@bz> yes
# [05:24] * @bz noticed
# [05:24] <@bz> current decomissioning procedure worldwide seems to be "operate it till something happens"
# [05:25] <@khuey> heh
# [05:25] <@khuey> there are reactors that have been decommissioned
# [05:25] <@khuey> some very old ones in the US, some old soviet designs in eastern europe
# [05:25] <@bz> sure
# [05:25] <@khuey> but yeah
# [05:25] <@bz> they just don't make the news
# [05:25] <@khuey> I think that's more to do with demand for energy than not having anything else to do with them though
# [05:26] <@bz> right
# [05:26] <@bz> decomissioning is a money-loser
# [05:26] <@bz> since you lose the revenue stream _and_ have to pay to decomission
# [05:26] <@bz> ok
# [05:26] <@khuey> right
# [05:26] <@bz> The financing thing makes sense
# [05:26] <@khuey> so you don't do it until you have no other option
# [05:27] <@khuey> and since the NRC is more than content to extend licenses
# [05:27] <@bz> if you have a high enough rate, that really expands your payoff time
# [05:27] <@khuey> yeah
# [05:27] <@bz> what _is_ the cost of capital for projects like this?
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# [05:27] * @bz notes that right now is a really good time to be building reactors if that's one of the main costs!
# [05:27] <jbuck> looks like a couple billion per reactor
# [05:27] <@khuey> it's worth noting that Southern Company is getting 8 billion in federal loan guarantees too
# [05:27] <@bz> khuey: I mean ballpark cost of capital
# [05:28] <@bz> khuey: heh
# [05:28] <@khuey> so they should only be paying market interest on the last 6 billion
# [05:28] <@khuey> bz: not sure
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# [05:29] <@bz> well, what assumptions did you have to make in your senior project?
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# [05:29] * @bz is guessing <20%, >5%
# [05:29] <@bz> but that leaves a pretty wide range....
# [05:29] <@khuey> we treated it as an independent variable
# [05:30] <@bz> heh
# [05:30] <@khuey> but being viable at greater than 8% or so was pretty tough
# [05:30] <@khuey> iirc
# [05:30] <@bz> that seems appropriate
# [05:30] <@bz> ok
# [05:30] <@bz> I can see that
# [05:30] <@khuey> bz: you might find http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf02.html interesting
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# [05:31] <@bz> thanks
# [05:31] * @bz reads
# [05:31] <@khuey> "A striking indication of the impact of financing costs is given by Georgia Power, which said in mid 2008 that twin 1100 MWe AP1000 reactors would cost $9.6 billion if they could be financed progressively by ratepayers, or $14 billion if not. This gives $4363 or $6360 per kilowatt including all other owners costs."
# [05:31] <@khuey> so borrowing money costs 4.4 billion
# [05:31] <@khuey> for them
# [05:31] <@khuey> Georgia Power === Southern Company, btw
# [05:32] <@bz> ah
# [05:32] <@bz> so the $14 billion figure is including the cost of capital?
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# [05:32] <@khuey> seems like it
# [05:33] <@bz> on some sort of present-value basis, I guess
# [05:33] <@bz> (as in, borrowed 9.6, but listing NPV of that plus future interest payments)
# [05:33] <@khuey> right
# [05:34] <@khuey> the other fun variable is construction time
# [05:34] <@khuey> since that affects the NPV of your revenue stream
# [05:34] <@khuey> in our senior design project we had to design the reactor and then build it
# [05:34] <@bz> indeed
# [05:34] <@bz> hmm
# [05:34] <@khuey> the designing for the AP1000 is pretty much done
# [05:34] <@bz> one other thought I just had
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# [05:34] <@bz> the numbers I recall for cost of electricity are what _I_ pay
# [05:34] <@khuey> modulo the usual no plan survives contact with the enemy
# [05:34] <@bz> so 1) retail
# [05:34] <@bz> 2) includes distribution charges
# [05:34] <@khuey> 2) transmission
# [05:34] <@bz> right
# [05:35] <@bz> ok
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# [05:35] <@bz> and in fact transmision is like half the price, iirc
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# [05:35] <@khuey> I read somewhere that they're going to spend 1.5 billion building high voltage lines to transport this power to places that can consume it
# [05:35] <@khuey> but I can't find that source
# [05:35] <@bz> ok, so then we're talking 12 years plus financing....
# [05:35] <@khuey> right
# [05:35] <@bz> which is getting closer to what I was expecting
# [05:35] <@bz> good
# [05:35] <@khuey> it's much harder than it appears
# [05:35] <@bz> well
# [05:35] <@bz> I was expecting that!
# [05:36] <jhammel> heh
# [05:36] <@bz> see, the easier it turns out to be....
# [05:36] <@bz> the more annoyed I would be at the NRC
# [05:36] <@khuey> ha
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# [05:37] <@khuey> the new regulatory process helps a lot too
# [05:37] <@khuey> Southern just got what's called a combined license
# [05:37] <@khuey> you used to have to get separate licenses to build a plant and then to operate it
# [05:37] <@khuey> so you could spend all the money to build it and then not be allowed to turn it on
# [05:37] <@bz> yeah
# [05:37] <@khuey> imagine what that does to the cost of capital ;-)
# [05:37] * @bz did see that
# [05:38] <@bz> verily
# [05:38] <@bz> risk, what risk?
# [05:38] <@bz> btw, the funniest thing here, of course is...
# [05:38] <@bz> there are entities out there who have silly low costs of capital
# [05:39] <@bz> they just don't build things like this because it's seen as bad form
# [05:39] <jtcranmer> hg-git + rebase + git history rewriting = o_O
# [05:39] <@bz> and would be too hard for them to do
# [05:39] <@khuey> like governments?
# [05:39] <@bz> yes
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# [05:39] <@bz> USG cost of capital for a 30-year loan is...
# [05:39] * @bz checks
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# [05:40] <@khuey> after inflation?
# [05:40] <@khuey> it's probably negative
# [05:40] <jtcranmer> inflation is ~2% right now I think
# [05:40] <jhammel> there is that ;)
# [05:40] <@bz> oh, rates are up
# [05:41] <jtcranmer> I think real interest rates are positive for 10 and 30 yr
# [05:41] <@bz> 30 year bonds are all the way up to 3% now
# [05:41] <@bz> for the non-TIPS
# [05:41] <@khuey> ah
# [05:41] <@khuey> they were negative for a while
# [05:41] <@bz> yeah
# [05:41] <@khuey> or zeroish
# [05:41] <@bz> they were
# [05:41] <@bz> current 30-year TIPS are being sold as yielding "0% plus CPI"
# [05:41] <@bz> whatever CPI will be then
# [05:42] <jtcranmer> well, whose debt are you going to hold instead? Greece's?
# [05:42] <@bz> so cost of capital at least via 30-year TIPS is "exactly inflation"
# [05:42] <@bz> well, right
# [05:42] * bc|afk is now known as bc
# [05:42] <@khuey> Canada's!
# [05:42] <@bz> the only drawback is that USG building a nuclear power plant would involve...
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# [05:42] <@bz> <sigh>
# [05:42] <@bz> let's just not worry about it
# [05:43] * @bz is just trying to avoid reaing more python code
# [05:43] <@khuey> ha
# [05:43] * kwierso wonders whether mozilla is planning on building a web-controlled nuclear reactor
# [05:43] <jhammel> bz: wait...that is *more* depressing than the world financial situation?
# [05:43] <kwierso> POWER TO THE USER
# [05:44] * jhammel is reading python code precisely to avoid dealing with reality
# [05:44] <jhammel> and, ahem to help Mozilla ;)
# [05:44] <heycam> kwierso, we'd need to remove all traces of java code if so
# [05:44] <jhammel> ++
# [05:44] <@bz> jhammel: it's not depressing; just tiring
# [05:44] <@bz> jhammel: it's python code that writes C++ code to allow JS code to talk to more C++ code
# [05:44] <jhammel> ah....well that sentence is tiring of its own right ;)
# [05:45] <@bz> heh
# [05:45] <jhammel> pyxpcom? ;)
# [05:45] <@bz> jhammel: new dom bindings
# [05:45] * @khuey gets stabby
# [05:45] <@bz> jhammel: code generator
# [05:45] * @bz agrees we shouldn't have done it in perl
# [05:45] <jhammel> ++
# [05:46] <@bz> but....
# [05:46] <@bz> There Must Be a Better Way
# [05:46] <ewong> ruby?
# [05:46] <jhammel> ewong--
# [05:46] <@bz> perl's templating facilities are better....
# [05:46] <@bz> ewong: does it pass the build test?
# [05:46] <jhammel> bz: i'd ask you to point to the code but running talos tests i can't actually open a browser right now :/
# [05:46] <heycam> an xml serialization of webidl + an xslt to generate the c++
# [05:46] <@bz> ewong: as in the "we would require it for our build" test
# [05:46] * Quits: JonathanS (JonathanS@moz-FA436756.cfl.res.rr.com) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
# [05:46] <@bz> heycam: no cookie
# [05:46] <ewong> oh
# [05:46] <@khuey> the necko people want to require node.js to run our tests
# [05:47] <@bz> heycam: I mean... xlst is turing complete, so _doable_
# [05:47] <@bz> heycam: but we could just write it in brainfuck too, at that rate
# [05:47] <jhammel> or whitespace ;)
# [05:47] <@bz> khuey: heh
# [05:47] <@bz> khuey: they don't like our test server?
# [05:47] <@bz> jhammel: you don't need a browser
# [05:47] <@khuey> they don't want to make it support spdy
# [05:48] <@bz> khuey: ah
# [05:48] <jhammel> python has deent templating stuff...its just not built in
# [05:48] <@bz> khuey: that seems ... reasonable
# [05:48] <@khuey> and all the other things that go along with spdy
# [05:48] <jhammel> decent, that is
# [05:48] <@khuey> like being fast
# [05:48] * Joins: jduell (jduell@moz-2D9EDA98.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
# [05:48] <@bz> jhammel: we're using string.Template
# [05:48] <@khuey> it's not unreasonable
# [05:48] <jhammel> bz: well that's about all you get built in :/
# [05:48] <@bz> jhammel: https://hg.mozilla.org/users/jst_mozilla.com/dom-bindings/
# [05:48] <jhammel> and we have an adversion to using and third-party python library
# [05:48] <@bz> jhammel: the stuff is all in dom/bindings
# [05:49] * @khuey sighs
# [05:49] <@khuey> are people really willing to pay 2k/month for a studio here
# [05:49] <@bz> jhammel: wait, talos tests?
# [05:49] <@bz> khuey: um
# [05:49] <jhammel> bz: yes?
# [05:49] <@bz> khuey: did you not look at prices before accepting the offer?
# [05:50] <jhammel> khuey: here == SF?
# [05:50] <@bz> jhammel: I guess hg clone is just as bad as starting a browser then.....
# [05:50] <@khuey> jhammel: yes
# [05:50] <@khuey> bz: heh
# [05:50] <jhammel> khuey: you don't want to know what i pay....and neither do i
# [05:50] <@bz> khuey: the answer is "fuckyeah"
# [05:50] <jhammel> khuey: lets just say "more than manhattan"
# [05:50] <@khuey> I just don't understand how regular people can have enough money to afford these places
# [05:50] <jhammel> khuey: they can't
# [05:50] <@bz> khuey: they don't
# [05:50] <@khuey> I could blow 2k/month on housing ... but I have no desire to
# [05:50] <jhammel> it is SF's little secret
# [05:50] <@khuey> ah
# [05:50] <@khuey> well
# [05:50] <@khuey> that explains it
# [05:50] * glob|away is now known as glob
# [05:50] <@bz> heh
# [05:51] <@khuey> it all makes sense now
# [05:51] * @bz pays more than 2k/month for housing
# [05:51] <@bz> granted, it's not a studio
# [05:51] <@khuey> I imagine you have more than 500 sq ft
# [05:51] <@bz> about 3x that much
# [05:51] <jtcranmer> I pay... a quarter of that?
# [05:51] <jhammel> khuey: where are you looking?
# [05:51] <@khuey> jhammel: oh I'm not seriously looking at this place
# [05:51] * Quits: adm42 (quassel@p57A41720.dip.t-dialin.net) (Client exited)
# [05:52] <jhammel> heh
# [05:52] <@khuey> just remarking on one of the more ridiculous things I saw on craigslist
# [05:52] <@bz> khuey: there's a reason all the people live in San Jose instead! ;)
# [05:52] <@khuey> jhammel: I'm going to check out a place in the lower haight tomorrow morning
# [05:52] <@khuey> bz: I thought they just didn't like the fog
# [05:52] <jhammel> khuey: hopefully not a studio for $2k ;)
# [05:52] <@bz> khuey: that could be too
# [05:52] <@khuey> jhammel: nah, a 1 bedroom for 1.5
# [05:53] <jhammel> that's downright decent
# [05:53] <@khuey> yeah
# [05:53] <@bz> heh
# [05:53] <@khuey> I'm sure there's a catch though
# [05:53] <@khuey> like "separated from a den of crack dealers by a bed sheet"
# [05:53] <@bz> when I was in Chicago....
# [05:53] <jhammel> there always is
# [05:53] <@bz> we were paying about $900 for a 1 bedroom
# [05:53] <@bz> granted, it was not in amazing shape
# [05:53] <jhammel> khuey: i pay premium for an apartment overlooking prostitutes and crack dealers....
# [05:53] <@bz> but it wasn't terrible
# [05:53] <jhammel> and i'm damn glad to have it!
# [05:53] <@khuey> jhammel: hah
# [05:53] <@bz> and was close to the university
# [05:53] <kwierso> khuey should find a place with a big closet, so I could just move in there
# [05:54] <@khuey> bz: that's another thing
# [05:54] <@khuey> bz: it seems like everything near downtown is palacial
# [05:54] <@bz> (and had a dining room and living room and a decent kitchen, in addition to the bedroom)
# [05:54] <jduell> I get "free" rent in Seattle compared to the Bay Area
# [05:54] <@khuey> and hence totally unaffordable
# [05:54] <@khuey> jduell: I believe it
# [05:54] <aja> you could pitch a tent in Oakland
# [05:54] <@bz> khuey: I can believe that
# [05:54] <@bz> khuey: we had that problem in Brookline
# [05:54] <@bz> khuey: when we started looking to buy a house
# [05:55] <@bz> khuey: the housing options there were either condos or houses with at least 5 bedrooms
# [05:55] <@bz> khuey: which seemed excessive
# [05:55] <@bz> khuey: also expensive.... ;)
# [05:55] <@khuey> I bet
# [05:55] <@bz> if we'd had no kids we could maybe have afforded it
# [05:55] * Quits: mjschranz (mjschranz@750AEFD4.531FD64C.630E4E47.IP) (Client exited)
# [05:55] <@bz> actually, almost certainly
# [05:55] <@khuey> but then who would you put in the 5 rooms?
# [05:55] <@bz> precisely
# [05:56] <@bz> I mean.... whose idea was that?
# [05:56] <@bz> Emma's advisor bought there, actually
# [05:56] <@bz> the first house they saw come on the market for under a million
# [05:56] <@khuey> heh
# [05:56] <@bz> so for a while there he and his wife had a bedroom. And an office each.
# [05:56] <@khuey> kwierso: I'll let you know how big the closet is
# [05:56] <@bz> And their daughter had the other three bedrooms.
# [05:57] <@bz> She was 3
# [05:57] <@khuey> kwierso: but I'm going to call it a studio and charge you an exorbitant amont
# [05:57] <@khuey> bz: quite a princess
# [05:57] <@bz> At least now they have two kids, so it's not quite as silly.... ;)
# [05:57] <jhammel> khuey++
# [05:57] <@bz> khuey: I bet they would have gotten a 4-bedroom if they could have found one!
# [05:57] <@khuey> I wonder if there's some rule about having kids to fill the available rooms
# [05:58] <@bz> how so?
# [05:59] <@khuey> well if you have 6 spare bedrooms you might want to put them to use somehow
# [05:59] <jduell> bz: so I'm running into issues with websockets not getting notified when we do page navigation.
# [05:59] <@bz> khuey: ah
# [05:59] <@bz> khuey: so...
# [05:59] <@bz> khuey: yes, but there's other costs too
# [05:59] <@bz> jduell: as in no cancel on the channel?
# [05:59] <jduell> bz: We've been assuming that when you navigate away from a page that has websockets open, we'd hit nsWebSocket::Cancel (nsIRequest)
# [05:59] <jduell> but I'm not seeing it called
# [06:00] <@bz> jduell: is the nsIRequest in the loadgroup?
# [06:00] <jduell> And so if the server doesn't close the WS we merrily exist even after page navigation
# [06:00] <jduell> Yes. When do loadgroups get shut down?
# [06:00] <@bz> jduell: we cancel the loadgroup when we start a navigation
# [06:00] <@khuey> bz: mmm, probably
# [06:00] <@bz> jduell: so you should get a cancel then
# [06:00] <@bz> jduell: if you start your websocket _after_ that, of course, you're out of luck
# [06:01] <@bz> khuey: extra rooms can be used for workshops
# [06:01] <jduell> bz: where's the code that does the cancel, so I can try to track it from there?
# [06:01] <@bz> khuey: toy soldier collections
# [06:01] * Quits: @ehsan (ehsan@F0B20A8D.8458880F.57F33CED.IP) (Input/output error)
# [06:01] <jduell> bz: it may be the case that this only happens when you open a new websocket during the onclose() handler of an existing websocket
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# [06:02] <@khuey> bz: heh
# [06:02] <jduell> khuey: you can run a bitcoin server farm in the basement--it'll heat the rest of the house
# [06:02] <@bz> jduell: nsDocShell::InternalLoad calls nsDocShell::Stop()
# [06:02] <jduell> I actually have a roommate who's doing that :)
# [06:02] <@khuey> jduell: that was my plan to heat my apartment in SF
# [06:02] <@khuey> more or less
# [06:02] <@bz> jduell: which lands in nsDocLoader::Stop
# [06:02] <@bz> jduell: which does:
# [06:02] <@bz> if (mLoadGroup)
# [06:02] <@bz> rv = mLoadGroup->Cancel(NS_BINDING_ABORTED);
# [06:02] <@bz> jduell: I bet that's it
# [06:03] <@bz> jduell: your onclose happens when the websocket is stopped, and if you just respawn...
# [06:03] <@bz> jduell: nothing will make it better
# [06:03] <jduell> bz: so how do I stop this from happening?
# [06:03] <@bz> jduell: I actually have a proposal for fixing that sort of thing globally
# [06:03] <@bz> jduell: right now?
# [06:03] <@bz> jduell: I don't quite know.
# [06:03] * Joins: ctopper (craig@C3495DA.BA3DBA56.AE2B2F80.IP)
# [06:03] <@bz> jduell: want to hear my proposal? ;)
# [06:03] <jduell> bz: sure
# [06:03] <@bz> jduell: so right now the loadgroup is attached to the docshell
# [06:04] <@bz> jduell: it would make somewhat more sense if there were actually a loadgroup attached to each document
# [06:04] * @khuey pull --rebases
# [06:04] <@bz> jduell: and possibly a loadgroup on the docshell just for the new loads in the docshell
# [06:04] * Quits: jet (junglecode@moz-79F891EE.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: jet)
# [06:04] <@bz> jduell: which would then be moved into the new document's loadgroup once it got set up
# [06:05] <@khuey> philor: is it safe to land on inbound?
# [06:05] * @khuey sees that you've been ejecting people
# [06:05] <@bz> jduell: then whenever we really navigate away from a document we could just cancel() its loadgroup one last time
# [06:05] <philor> khuey: do you want to see browser-chrome run?
# [06:05] <@bz> jduell: to kill off any stragglers
# [06:05] <philor> billm says I probably got the wrong thing for the b-c crashes, so it'll be safer after one more
# [06:05] <@bz> jduell: (I wonder how many websites that would break....)
# [06:05] <jduell> bz: isn't there some way we could just mark a loadgroup as cancelled, so that if you add any channels to it after that, it just cancels them?
# [06:06] <@khuey> philor: k, I'l lwait
# [06:06] <@bz> jduell: you could
# [06:06] <@bz> jduell: but we can't do that right now, right?
# [06:06] <philor> khuey: and if you want to see Android tests, kats needs to figure out if that's just needs-clobber, or needs-backout
# [06:06] <@bz> jduell: if we had per-document loadgroups it would work....
# [06:07] <jduell> bz: I'm fuzzy on the difference between docshells and documents. Why wouldn't it work? Is the loadgroup gone by then?
# [06:07] <@bz> jduell: docshell is the thing that corresponds to a window
# [06:07] * Joins: faramarz (Adium@moz-CD61C00E.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [06:07] <@bz> jduell: the document being navigated from and the document being navigated to live in the same docshell
# [06:08] <@bz> jduell: hence right now they use the _same_ loadgroup
# [06:08] <jduell> bz: does the docshell keep the same loadgroup for different documents?
# [06:08] <@bz> jduell: yes
# [06:08] <@bz> jduell: precisely
# [06:08] <jduell> crap
# [06:08] * Joins: JonathanS (JonathanS@moz-FA436756.cfl.res.rr.com)
# [06:08] * Quits: dmb (dmb@moz-3565FEE9.da4.org) (Ping timeout)
# [06:08] <@bz> jduell: hence my proposal to stop doing that...
# [06:08] * Quits: micahg (micahg@moz-61BD5084.c3-0.arm-ubr1.chi-arm.il.cable.rcn.com) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
# [06:09] <@bz> jduell: but that's not a quick-fix
# [06:09] <@khuey> philor: I don't care about android ;-)
# [06:09] <zwol> before i waste another hour looking for something, can anyone offhand think of a good place to look for gigantic files (like, takes more than ten minutes to download at 10Mbps) that are on a server that won't care if I pound on it, and - critically - have stable URLs without lots of DRM crap in the query parameters?
# [06:09] <@bz> jduell: a quick-fix for websockets might be to keep track of all the live ones for an inner window
# [06:09] * Joins: dmb (dmb@moz-3565FEE9.da4.org)
# [06:09] <jduell> bz: there's gotta be some way to stop this. We know logically at this point that the websocket onclose() is because of a cancel, can't we keep track of the loadgroup that's being cancelled
# [06:09] <@bz> jduell: and killing them all off when the inner window stops being the current inner
# [06:09] * philor knows that feeling well
# [06:09] <@bz> jduell: cancel is async
# [06:10] <@bz> jduell: by the time onclose happens, we're way past canceling the loadgroup
# [06:10] <@khuey> zwol: how about the windows DVD ISOs?
# [06:10] <@bz> So you want files larger than 600MB or so?
# [06:10] <zwol> bz: yes
# [06:11] <zwol> khuey: might work *looks*
# [06:11] * Joins: sfink (chatzilla@moz-C15A718.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
# [06:11] * @bz was gonna suggest xcode, but that might have login reqs
# [06:11] <zwol> bz: I was poking at Youtube, but, well, see "have stable URLs &c"
# [06:11] <jhammel> or linux ISOs, if 600MB is fine
# [06:11] <@bz> yeah
# [06:11] <@bz> right
# [06:11] <@khuey> zwol: http://www.mydigitallife.info/windows-7-iso-x86-and-x64-official-direct-download-links-ultimate-professional-and-home-premium/
# [06:11] <jduell> zwol: people.mozilla.org?
# [06:11] <@khuey> jhammel: well, linux mirrors might care ;-)
# [06:11] <@bz> next question was about linux isos
# [06:11] <@khuey> but nobody cares about MS
# [06:11] * Joins: micahg (micahg@moz-61BD5084.c3-0.arm-ubr1.chi-arm.il.cable.rcn.com)
# [06:12] <@bz> but there's the caring thing
# [06:12] <philor> khuey: okay, now your only non-Android exposure is Waldo, should be good
# [06:12] <jhammel> zwol: or i can put up some files for you...if you would like
# [06:12] <zwol> jduell: I don't have upload rights on there anymore
# [06:12] * @bz proposes a special Firefox build
# [06:12] <@bz> I'll just --enable-space-wastage
# [06:12] <jhammel> lol
# [06:12] <philor> because I've backed everybody else out clear back to an m-c merge :(
# [06:12] <zwol> also, I imagine Mozilla's servers have better things to do than help me test my kludge
# [06:13] <@khuey> philor: ok
# [06:13] <@bz> you could upload a Linux ISO to facebook
# [06:13] * @khuey rebuilds locally to make sure his push isn't total crap
# [06:13] <@bz> they have server infrastructure
# [06:13] <@bz> they can handle it
# [06:13] <zwol> heh
# [06:13] <mcpherrin> bz: they have a linux mirror :P
# [06:13] <@bz> (I mean, so does twitter, but they carefully prevented this form of DoS)
# [06:13] <zwol> I'd be here all night waiting for the upload to finish :)
# [06:14] <mcpherrin> mirror.facebook.net :P
# [06:14] * Joins: bbondy (bbondy@moz-28CF6D1C.home.cgocable.net)
# [06:14] <@bz> And now we learn the _real_ reason for the 140byte limit
# [06:14] <jhammel> zwol: i can put a 444M file up for you right now
# [06:14] <jhammel> not the fastest server, but....
# [06:15] <zwol> jhammel: no thanks
# [06:15] * @bz mutters about sqlite.js
# [06:16] <jhammel> bz: is that > 600m ? :P
# [06:16] <zwol> looks like Facebook's mirror will actually do quite nicely
# [06:16] <@bz> jhammel: no, it's just a concept that's insane
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# [06:16] * ChanServ sets mode: +o ehsan
# [06:16] <@bz> Though http://people.mozilla.org/~eakhgari/demo.html is apparently 136MB
# [06:16] <@bz> of JS stuff
# [06:17] * Quits: not_gavin (gavin@D18F6DDB.6A393516.2321E71E.IP) (Ping timeout)
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# [06:17] <@bz> sqlite.js is just 2.4MB after compression
# [06:17] <zwol> bz: when I was hacking on the CSS parser I found a webpage with very nearly that much text in a <style> tag
# [06:18] <@bz> zwol: heh
# [06:18] <tbsaunde> bz: would you like libuxl.js better? if that's what I gues it is
# [06:18] <aja> 15 minute reflows!
# [06:18] <@bz> tbsaunde: libxul.js would be very difficult
# [06:18] * Quits: alex (alex@moz-BD8D0A09.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Client exited)
# [06:19] <@bz> tbsaunde: if nothing else because libxul is not exactly all C/C++
# [06:19] <tbsaunde> bz: yeah
# [06:19] <tbsaunde> bz: I didn't know about the non c++ / C part though
# [06:20] <@bz> tbsaunde: well, xptcall....
# [06:20] <@bz> tbsaunde: also we use compiler intrinsics and whatnot
# [06:20] <@bz> in fact, I suspect if you name it we use it
# [06:21] <tbsaunde> bz: yeah, not sure how I forgot that
# [06:21] <jhammel> fortran!
# [06:21] <@khuey> would you need xptcall in a libxul.js? ;-)
# [06:21] <@bz> no self-modifying code other than the jits, I think
# [06:21] <@bz> khuey: if you do a straight port, then yes
# [06:21] <@bz> khuey: since you're have js objects that live on the emscripten heap....
# [06:21] <tbsaunde> well, compiler intrinsics might working depending on how llvm deals with them ...
# [06:22] * mcote is now known as mcote|afk
# [06:23] <@bz> maybe
# [06:23] <Jesse> zwol: 127.0.0.1
# [06:23] <tbsaunde> either way it would be terrible
# [06:23] <@bz> oh, we have assembly code in nspr too
# [06:24] <@bz> how does LLVM deal with this?
# [06:24] <@bz> 45 # PRInt32 __PR_Darwin_x86_AtomicIncrement(PRInt32 *val);
# [06:24] <@bz> 50 .text
# [06:24] <@bz> 51 .globl __PR_Darwin_x86_AtomicIncrement
# [06:24] <@bz> 52 .private_extern __PR_Darwin_x86_AtomicIncrement
# [06:24] <@bz> 53 .align 4
# [06:24] <@bz> 54 __PR_Darwin_x86_AtomicIncrement:
# [06:24] <@bz> 55 movl 4(%esp), %ecx
# [06:24] <@bz> 56 movl $1, %eax
# [06:24] <@bz> 57 lock
# [06:24] <@bz> 58 xaddl %eax, (%ecx)
# [06:24] <@bz> 59 incl %eax
# [06:24] <@bz> 60 ret
# [06:24] <@bz> hey, we make it _look_ like a C function!
# [06:25] <@bz> which reminds me
# [06:25] <tbsaunde> well, that's kind of handy for stack walking
# [06:25] <@bz> emscripten can't do threaded code
# [06:25] <@khuey> nspr isn't in libxul.js!
# [06:25] <tbsaunde> but I would tend to think not worth the few extra opps
# [06:25] * @bz is pretty sure we use threads sometimes
# [06:25] <tbsaunde> hehe
# [06:25] <@khuey> bz: why not?
# [06:25] <@bz> on pages with a few videos we might use a few hundred
# [06:26] <@bz> khuey: just doesn't have a way of dealing right now
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# [06:26] <@bz> khuey: would need to do scheduling or whatnot
# [06:26] <@khuey> right
# [06:26] <@khuey> doesn't sound hard though
# [06:26] <@khuey> just silly
# [06:27] <tbsaunde> khuey: well, if you do everything on the main thread I gues
# [06:27] <tbsaunde> if you want to use workers shared mutable state in js sounds interesting
# [06:27] <@bz> all a matter of priorities
# [06:27] <sfink> valgrind manages it
# [06:27] <@bz> emscripten doesn't have a huge developer team
# [06:27] * Joins: brendan (brendaneic@moz-A286C218.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [06:28] <@khuey> tbsaunde: yeah there would be no workers here
# [06:28] <njn> sfink: valgrind manages what?
# [06:28] <@khuey> at least not in my conceptually simple implementation
# [06:28] * @khuey posits that njn has valgrind on highlight
# [06:28] <tbsaunde> khuey: yeah, but there when your premption
# [06:28] <sfink> Threads. By serializing execution.
# [06:29] * njn doesn't know what highlight is
# [06:29] * mattwoodrow is now known as mattwoodrow|away
# [06:30] * kwierso posits that khuey meant "stalk word list"?
# [06:30] <@bz> njn: your irc client notifying you when the word is mentioned
# [06:30] <njn> ah
# [06:30] <njn> khuey is correct
# [06:31] <@khuey> :-D
# [06:32] <Callek> dcamp: ping?
# [06:32] <sstangl> a user is reporting to me that firefox 10 is writing 50 kb/s to disk continuously. "Resource monitor" says that the target is webappstore.sqlite-journal. Is this known?
# [06:32] <njn> khuey: I have one for "memshrink" too
# [06:32] <Callek> dcamp: any guidance on fixing https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=725872 ?
# [06:32] <Callek> dcamp: regression from https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=673470
# [06:33] <@khuey> sstangl: that means a web page is using localStorage
# [06:33] <sstangl> khuey: 'webappstore' means 'storage space for webapps', not 'the web app store', right?
# [06:33] <@khuey> right
# [06:35] * Waldo sees an impressive backscroll of interesting highly-offtopic nuclear power discussion
# [06:35] <@bz> google uses localstorage
# [06:35] <Waldo> :-)
# [06:35] * Quits: jst (jst@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com) (Input/output error)
# [06:35] <@bz> so if they write to it continuously....
# [06:35] <@bz> waldo: ;)
# [06:35] <@bz> waldo: that page khuey linked to is a good read
# [06:35] * Joins: jst (jst@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com)
# [06:37] * Waldo sees "as long as carbon emissions are cost-free" and makes a Pigovian smile
# [06:37] <@khuey> philor: do we have any bugs on file about intermittent crashes in workers?
# [06:37] * Joins: janv (varga@moz-C1261AFF.flarion.as5628.telecom.sk)
# [06:37] <philor> khuey: there's the shutdown one
# [06:38] <@khuey> philor: right
# [06:38] <@khuey> I was wondering if there was an actual crash running the testsuite
# [06:38] <dholbert> khuey, lol I just saw your message without seeing who wrote it, and I was like "khuey's totally working on those!"
# [06:38] <philor> there's been a couple of crashes I've declined to file recently, in talos
# [06:38] <@khuey> dholbert: :-D
# [06:38] <dholbert> (like about to respond with that, to whoever asked)
# [06:38] <dholbert> (but it was you!)
# [06:38] <@khuey> philor: btw I think the stuff I just pushed to inbound fixes the shutdown hang
# [06:39] <@khuey> bent and I managed to get it in a replay vm and tracked it down this morning
# [06:39] <Waldo> replay vm <3
# [06:39] * philor stares at it like a present on Christmas Eve
# [06:39] <@khuey> Waldo: srsly
# [06:39] <@khuey> Waldo: I think we killed all of the intermittent oranges in workers in one day
# [06:39] <Waldo> nice
# [06:40] <Waldo> I think I ordered a Windows machine shortly after VMware killed r&r, and/or there was user error
# [06:40] <njn> bz: are nsSimpleURI::{mScheme,mPath,mRef} shared?
# [06:40] <@bz> too bad vmware is discontinuing it
# [06:40] * @bz is pissed off about all the toys going away
# [06:40] <@bz> shark, r&r....
# [06:40] * Parts: faramarz (Adium@moz-CD61C00E.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [06:40] <@khuey> bz: it still works on the stuff we have!
# [06:41] * Waldo can totally understand why they're doing it, although he tends to think it probably could be made effective from their point of view with some more effort
# [06:41] <@khuey> and we can leave a machine around running windows 7 for a very long time
# [06:41] <@khuey> unlike, say, snow leopard
# [06:41] <@bz> waldo: why are they doing it?
# [06:41] <@bz> khuey: yeah, indeed
# [06:41] <@khuey> yay Microsoft
# [06:41] * dholbert is now known as dholbert|afk
# [06:41] <@dolske> would it be possible to implement R&R for just JS or Rust?
# [06:41] <@bz> btw
# [06:41] <@bz> http://www.infoworld.com/d/applications/google-pay-users-track-their-movements-online-186030
# [06:42] * Quits: diogogmt (kvirc@moz-4D628198.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
# [06:42] * Joins: micahg (micahg@moz-61BD5084.c3-0.arm-ubr1.chi-arm.il.cable.rcn.com)
# [06:42] <@bz> is obviously what metrics should do... ;)
# [06:42] <@khuey> dolske: we had an intern work on a generic record and replay system
# [06:42] <@khuey> for c++
# [06:42] <@khuey> roc can tell you more
# [06:42] <@khuey> bz: hah
# [06:42] <njn> khuey: I bet that project got a long way :P
# [06:42] <cjones> it did
# [06:42] <jhammel> bz: sell out bigtime? ;)
# [06:42] <cjones> it recorded and replayed firefox
# [06:43] <@dolske> ah, just wondering if a language we essentially have full implementation-control over makes a domain-specific r&r easier.
# [06:43] <jhammel> don't suppose there's been any plans of resurrecting it?
# [06:43] <@khuey> jhammel: I think he's coming back this summer
# [06:43] <@khuey> njn: it got quite far
# [06:43] <jhammel> khuey: 'twould be nice...one of our top requests in automation
# [06:43] <@dolske> was it faster than the vmware flavor?
# [06:43] <@khuey> dolske: than vmware? idk
# [06:44] <@khuey> it's much faster than valgrind though
# [06:44] <@khuey> and hence roc's old chronicle thing
# [06:44] <cjones> it's apples to orange comparison
# [06:44] <cjones> but it had low overhead
# [06:44] <@bz> dolske: it
# [06:44] <@khuey> jhammel: yeah, a world in which we automatically recorded all our test runs would be amazing
# [06:44] <@bz> dolske: the question is how much we need to model gecko to r&r js
# [06:44] * @khuey pictures releng not liking the disk space demands of that
# [06:44] <@bz> dolske: for pure JS stuff with no dom/layout interaction, would be pretty easy, I think
# [06:44] <Waldo> bz: why killing it? because it's a heap of code that very few people used, that I've heard claims was a deathmarch to write, and it probably was their E4X...or tracejit...or sync XHR...or...
# [06:44] <jhammel> khuey: well, you record all runs, but immediately discard runs without errors
# [06:45] <@bz> waldo: heh
# [06:45] <@khuey> jhammel: we have lots of runs with errors ;-)
# [06:45] <jhammel> that i don't deny ;)
# [06:45] <Waldo> bz: or mutation events
# [06:45] * Waldo knew he was forgetting one!
# [06:45] <cjones> https://github.com/andreasgal/rr
# [06:45] <@bz> dolske: I think the really hard part in some ways is delivering all the right events with the right timing....
# [06:45] <njn> bz: are nsSimpleURI::{mScheme,mPath,mRef} shared?
# [06:46] * njn suspects so
# [06:46] <@bz> njn: they can be
# [06:46] <cjones> bz, that part was solved
# [06:46] <cjones> in the intern's project
# [06:46] <@bz> cjones: I'd certainly hope so, if it got far!
# [06:46] * Quits: jhammel (jhammel@moz-14240F1C.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: leaving)
# [06:46] <cjones> well, you only need really high precision for edge cases
# [06:46] <@bz> cjones: just saying that for r&r of pure JS that would be the only hard part
# [06:46] <@bz> cjones: true
# [06:46] <@bz> though...
# [06:47] <@bz> to properly r&r JS you have to either model the jit
# [06:47] <@bz> or assume that it's deterministic
# [06:47] <Waldo> philor: thanks muchly for not backing me out :-)
# [06:47] <philor> khuey: bug 715818 and the one-time bug 684743
# [06:47] <@bz> which it's not
# [06:47] <cjones> hmm, i don't follow
# [06:47] <@bz> which part?
# [06:47] <cjones> what does "modeling the JIT" mean?
# [06:47] <philor> Waldo: just you wait, you haven't run 10.6 opt yet :)
# [06:47] <cjones> there are inputs to the system
# [06:47] <@bz> well
# [06:48] <cjones> some of which are nondeterministic
# [06:48] <@bz> yes
# [06:48] <cjones> those are recorded
# [06:48] <@bz> yes
# [06:48] <@bz> yes
# [06:48] <@bz> the point being that "the system" in this case has to be the js code and our jit
# [06:48] <cjones> oic
# [06:48] <cjones> you're talking about recording just the VM
# [06:48] <@bz> and the inputs have to include whatever cache eviction stuff the jit does, say
# [06:48] <@bz> yeah
# [06:48] <cjones> gotcha
# [06:48] <@bz> just recording the JS itself is not good enough
# [06:48] * Joins: bretr (bret_recka@moz-EC82158.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [06:48] <@bz> for a lot of things
# [06:48] <cjones> the intern project did the whole shebang, with 10-15% overhead IIRC
# [06:49] <@bz> (would obviously be enough to catch bugs in _pages_, but not necessarily in our jit)
# [06:49] <@bz> cjones: wow
# [06:49] <@bz> cjones: I want
# [06:49] <@khuey> philor: thanks
# [06:49] <@bz> cjones: cross-platform?
# [06:49] <cjones> i don't know what perf VMWare got, but 10-15% is competitive with academic projects i know about
# [06:49] <cjones> nope
# [06:49] <cjones> linux only
# [06:49] <@bz> ok
# [06:49] <@bz> I can live with that
# [06:49] <cjones> but vmware was windows only, so ...
# [06:49] <@bz> 10-15% perf hit is nothing
# [06:50] <@bz> that's "unplug my laptop" territory
# [06:50] <cjones> heh
# [06:50] <@bz> seriously
# [06:50] <cjones> yep
# [06:50] * Waldo would take Linux-only in a heartbeat, of course
# [06:50] <cjones> bz, 12% slowdown on sunspider
# [06:50] <@bz> does it also run in a VM?
# [06:50] <cjones> yes, it would
# [06:51] <@bz> ok
# [06:51] <@bz> which one?
# [06:51] <@bz> or did he build a VM too?
# [06:51] <cjones> shouldn't matter in theory
# [06:51] <cjones> AFAIK i know it wasn't tested in a VM
# [06:51] <cjones> er s/i know//
# [06:52] <@bz> hmm
# [06:52] * Quits: surkov (surkov@36D639C1.44A4068D.222B27F0.IP) (Ping timeout)
# [06:52] * @khuey grumbles
# [06:52] <@bz> so what we have so far is just recording all inputs, basically?
# [06:52] <@bz> and being able to replay them somehow?
# [06:52] * Quits: bretr (bret_recka@moz-EC82158.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: bretr)
# [06:52] <cjones> yes, it uses ptrace to monitor inputs to the system
# [06:53] <@khuey> it's lame when I want to blog but I have to either leave out a big chunk of the story or wait for an sg bug to get fixed
# [06:53] * Quits: nrc (nrc@538BABFE.A073F3E.97BBD552.IP) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 11.0/20120201153158])
# [06:53] <jtcranmer> khuey: try having to wait until you publish a paper
# [06:53] <cjones> and some other linux-specific access to perf counters to schedule precise exceptions
# [06:53] <philor> ttaubert: ping
# [06:53] <cjones> hmm, *that* might not work in a VM
# [06:54] <cjones> no fundamental reason why not, just the VM would need to implement that
# [06:54] <jtcranmer> worst case scenario, you lock up the kernel in the VM
# [06:54] <jtcranmer> been there, done that
# [06:54] * Quits: slowpoke (slowpoke@moz-AE67AB45.gigabit.perfect-privacy.com) (Ping timeout)
# [06:54] * Joins: slowpoke (slowpoke@moz-AE67AB45.gigabit.perfect-privacy.com)
# [06:55] <@dolske> ooc, how much r&r time would, say, 512GB give you?
# [06:55] <@khuey> with vmware?
# [06:55] <njn> dolske: 2 weeks in the Bahamas, I'd guess
# [06:56] <@dolske> for a 15% hit, running the browser full-time with a 512GB loop would be interesting
# [06:56] <@dolske> njn: <3
# [06:56] <@khuey> 512 GB is probably enough for a few days in VMWare
# [06:56] <@dolske> khuey: just post an md5. *cough*
# [06:56] <@khuey> how well it handles recordings that large, idk
# [06:56] <njn> dolske: yes, 2 < 3
# [06:57] * njn is on a roll
# [06:57] * Quits: eflores (eflores@538BABFE.A073F3E.97BBD552.IP) (Quit: Bye)
# [06:57] <Waldo> I'm on a horse
# [06:57] <@khuey> I'm on a boat
# [06:58] <jtcranmer> when you said that, you immediately reminded me of Pokemon
# [06:58] * jtcranmer blames AMV Hell n
# [06:58] * Quits: lsumar (lsumar@538BABFE.A073F3E.97BBD552.IP) (Ping timeout)
# [06:58] <njn> I'm on fire
# [06:58] * Quits: aja (chatzilla@FE01A14B.D3D1D2A7.7880DB15.IP) (Client exited)
# [06:58] * Joins: surkov (surkov@94877EB3.B3F96E9C.3AF1D72D.IP)
# [06:59] <@dolske> I'm in a gadda da vida, bay-bee...
# [06:59] * jtcranmer dumps a bucket of water on njn
# [06:59] <njn> thank you
# [06:59] <jtcranmer> njn: I should have asked first, was this a grease fire?
# [06:59] <njn> ooh, good question
# [06:59] <njn> lemme check
# [07:00] <njn> yes!
# [07:00] <njn> my house is now a giant fireball
# [07:00] <jtcranmer> oops
# [07:00] <njn> but my internet connection is still working
# [07:00] <njn> so s'all good
# [07:00] <jtcranmer> try some... is it baking soda or baking powder?
# [07:00] <Waldo> you can make one from the other, plus some stuff, so either probably works
# [07:00] <jtcranmer> I can never remember which one is nonflammable and which one is inflammable
# [07:00] <@dolske> quick, throw something inflammible on njn!
# [07:01] <jtcranmer> ah, it's baking soda
# [07:01] <jtcranmer> because it releases CO₂
# [07:01] <SeoZ> hello
# [07:02] <jtcranmer> now that actually makes sense
# [07:02] <njn> hello!
# [07:02] <jtcranmer> SeoZ: are you on fire too?
# [07:02] * Joins: igor (igor@169CEE78.E37E53F7.1DAC7E2F.IP)
# [07:02] <bent> khuey, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=614146#c526
# [07:02] <@dolske> jtcranmer: you and your pyrophosphates.
# [07:02] <SeoZ> jtcranmer: sure
# [07:03] <SeoZ> i got small embedding gecko sample.
# [07:03] <SeoZ> i managed to build it.
# [07:03] <SeoZ> but it segvs
# [07:03] <SeoZ> when i run it.
# [07:03] <SeoZ> http://yourpaste.net/10507/
# [07:03] <SeoZ> here is the code.
# [07:04] <SeoZ> sigh.
# [07:04] <@khuey> bent: I landed 20 minutes ago
# [07:04] <SeoZ> spend much time even getting to this step.
# [07:04] <philor> yeah, that was a before
# [07:04] <bent> oh ok
# [07:04] <SeoZ> anybody has an idea?
# [07:04] <mwu> SeoZ: have you tried running it in gdb?
# [07:04] <SeoZ> mwu: hello again :)
# [07:05] <SeoZ> it just dies at XRE_InitEmbedding2()
# [07:05] <mwu> where in XRE_InitEmbedding2?
# [07:05] <SeoZ> when i first got this code, it was XRE_InitEmbedding() but i failed to compile that.
# [07:05] * Quits: harth (harth@moz-C03D0C61.vlan426.asr1.sfo1.gblx.net) (Input/output error)
# [07:05] <SeoZ> so i replaced that with XRE_InitEmbedding()
# [07:05] <SeoZ> and my gdb doesn't help that much.
# [07:06] <SeoZ> (gdb) bt
# [07:06] <SeoZ> #0 0x00000000 in ?? ()
# [07:06] <SeoZ> #1 0x08048ea5 in main (argc=1, argv=0xbfffeb44) at test.c:62
# [07:06] <@bz> njn: stranger things have happened wrt internet connections!
# [07:06] <SeoZ> is there any solid simple code that inits gecko with XRE_InitEmbedding2()?
# [07:06] <@bz> njn: like the first whistler summit....
# [07:06] <@bz> speaking of which, is there a summit planned for this summer?
# [07:07] <heycam> it seems like the plan is not to have a summit, but to have a bunch of mozcamps around the place
# [07:07] <jtcranmer> glad to know I'm not the only one wondeirng about the answer to that question
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# [07:07] * heycam only just missed out on the whistler summit, so is slightly bummed to know there won't be one giant summit event
# [07:07] <Waldo> bz: ^
# [07:08] <Waldo> apparently the name of the game is smaller gatherings
# [07:08] * jtcranmer is bummed too; it was nice to see everybody at once
# [07:08] * Quits: jduell (jduell@moz-2D9EDA98.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout)
# [07:08] <Waldo> I totally understand why, but yeah
# [07:09] <glob> i'm bummed too; i got a lot of excellent bugzilla feedback while mingling.. hard to justify "i want to go to a mozcamp just to mingle"
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# [07:11] <@bz> waldo: ok
# [07:11] <@bz> waldo: I knew that was the plan for corporation stuff
# [07:12] <@bz> waldo: I guess for project stuff too?
# [07:12] <Waldo> bz: mozcamps, smaller gatherings, etc.
# [07:12] <Waldo> bz: yeah
# [07:12] <@khuey> well the plan for corporation stuff was "the only time everyone gets together is at the summit"
# [07:12] <@khuey> and now that there's no summit ...
# [07:12] * Quits: lmandel (lmandel@moz-113D7D7C.cable.teksavvy.com) (Quit: lmandel)
# [07:13] <mwu> SeoZ: have you verified that XRE_InitEmbedding2 isn't null?
# [07:13] <heycam> khuey, does that mean no all hands either?
# [07:13] <mwu> break before that call and check
# [07:13] <mwu> and if isn't null, try stepping into the call
# [07:13] <@khuey> heycam: the plan was not to have any more all hands
# [07:13] <@khuey> but that plan assumed the existence of a summit
# [07:13] <heycam> khuey, oh, then I missed the last one ;_;
# [07:13] <@khuey> so who knows
# [07:14] <@bz> we can have a platform summit
# [07:14] <@bz> then a platforming summit
# [07:15] <@bz> (subtly different)
# [07:15] <SeoZ> oh.. XRE_InitEmbedding2 is null
# [07:15] <SeoZ> mwu: am i missing something? or missing a lot?
# [07:15] <heycam> was… whistler chosen because it's a mountain? summit?
# [07:15] * heycam is slow
# [07:16] <@khuey> whistler was chosen because it's the closest suitable venue to mountain view that is not inside the united states
# [07:17] <glob> is the issue with it being inside the US to do with needing a different visa to do work?
# [07:17] <@dolske> wonder if we're big enough to charter a cruise ship.
# [07:17] <heycam> dolske++ no visa issues then
# [07:17] <@dolske> glob: aiui, it's just esier for people to travel to .ca than .us.
# [07:17] <heycam> (if we arrive by helicopter)
# [07:18] <@dolske> good news: having a summit, bad news: in antartica.
# [07:18] <@khuey> glob: immigration in general
# [07:19] <@khuey> heycam: helicopter from AUS might be tough
# [07:19] <mwu> SeoZ: it doesn't make sense since it should've given you an error earlier
# [07:19] <heycam> khuey, that very much depends on where the cruise ship is!
# [07:19] * Joins: pnemsak (Miranda@moz-3D67D819.rainside.sk)
# [07:20] * kwierso awaits the day we have a moon base to hold a summit at
# [07:20] <SeoZ> mwu: oh.. well.. something is wrong.
# [07:20] <mwu> SeoZ: where is XRE_InitEmbedding2Type defined?
# [07:20] <@bz> http://www.cruise-ship-charter.com/
# [07:20] <@bz> says 100 to 3300 people
# [07:21] <@bz> we're in that range!
# [07:21] <mwu> SeoZ: hm I guess you didn't define it yourself
# [07:21] <heycam> ha
# [07:21] <mwu> mxr probably just isn't smart enough to find it
# [07:21] <biesi> we could cruise from AUS via asia and europe to the US and pick up people along the way
# [07:21] * Quits: cadecairos (cadecairos@moz-632B4208.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout)
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# [07:21] <SeoZ> mwu: well, http://yourpaste.net/10507/ is all i have.
# [07:21] <heycam> biesi, that is an excellent idea.
# [07:21] <@bz> problem is they want 18-24 month advance warning
# [07:21] <@bz> do _you_ know what headcount will be in 18 months?
# [07:21] * @bz sure doesn't
# [07:21] * Quits: jgilbert (jgilbert@moz-BBE3ABD.mv.mozilla.com) (Ping timeout)
# [07:22] * glob guesses more than 3
# [07:22] <@bz> heh
# [07:22] <@bz> Q: What does a cruise ship charter cost?
# [07:22] <@bz> A: This will depend on numerous factors. However, just to give you an idea, you will not be able to charter the smallest cruise ship (100 passengers) for under $60,000 per day.
# [07:22] <glob> wow
# [07:22] <kwierso> ...
# [07:22] <derf> That's pretty reasonable.
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# [07:22] <@bz> indeed
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# [07:23] <@bz> considering that this includes room
# [07:23] <@bz> and maybe board
# [07:23] <kwierso> hopefully at least deck
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# [07:23] <derf> Double-hulled VLCC's go for a lot more than that, IIRC.
# [07:23] <@bz> "When you charter a cruise ship, you b
# [07:24] <@bz> er...
# [07:24] <kwierso> I b all the time
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# [07:24] <@bz> When you charter a cruise ship, you "own" the ship. You can select the itinerary, choose the entertainment and schedule conferences and events throughout the ship. You can even fly your own flag and have your logo appear on the menus, in-room stationary and the ship's newsletter, with the daily program
# [07:24] <@bz> stupid non-ASCII quotes
# [07:24] <@bz> we don't have a flag
# [07:24] <@bz> we need to fix that
# [07:25] <@khuey> might be able to get it cheaper if we don't drive it anywhere
# [07:25] <heycam> wow, our very own logo on the ship's newsletter
# [07:25] <@bz> if it's internal consumption only, I vote dino-head
# [07:25] * kwierso hopes this ship will be powered by mozilla's new nuke plant
# [07:25] <@bz> "You will be surprised about the range of individual needs and requests cruise ship charters are able to accommodate. "
# [07:25] <@bz> kwierso: see earlier discussion. We'd need about $5e9 in capital
# [07:26] <@bz> "Cruise ship charters are all-inclusive.
# [07:26] <@bz> Included in the fare is the food (even complimentary room service), entertainment, complimentary use of meeting rooms, with state-of-the-art multi-media technology, and spa facilities. Some ships also include alcoholic and non-alcoholic beverages and complimentary in-suite mini-bars. "
# [07:26] <@bz> So yes, includes board
# [07:26] <@bz> so.....
# [07:26] <@bz> Compare to something like the last all-hands
# [07:26] <heycam> this is sounding better by the minute
# [07:26] <@bz> we had hotel space
# [07:26] <derf> bz: 5:1 leverage (given media estimates of our next 3 years' income) is very reasonable.
# [07:26] <@bz> couldn't have been under $200 a night, I bet
# [07:26] <@bz> derf: heh
# [07:26] <Waldo> bz: off-season, it must be less
# [07:26] <@bz> hmm
# [07:26] <@bz> maybe
# [07:27] <@bz> we had the food
# [07:27] <@bz> couldn't have been less than $50/person/day
# [07:27] <@bz> I suspect
# [07:27] <derf> That was some great food.
# [07:27] <mwu> SeoZ: I would try breaking and stepping through XPCOMGlueLoadXULFunctions and make sure things are working right
# [07:27] <@bz> we had the actual convention center rental
# [07:27] <mwu> it's a relatively simple function to check
# [07:27] <@bz> the buses
# [07:27] <@bz> various entertainment stuff
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# [07:27] <@bz> did we average >$600/person/day? Could be
# [07:28] <@bz> certainly we ended up in the general ballpark.....
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# [07:28] <@bz> (I'd bet money it was > $400 per person per day)
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# [07:29] <@bz> hmm
# [07:29] <@bz> I guess San Jose Mariott might be as low as 130/night
# [07:29] <@bz> even retail
# [07:29] <@bz> so maybe I'd lose my $400 bet. ;)
# [07:29] * @khuey wanders off for the night
# [07:30] <derf> Oh, I thought we were talking about the summit.
# [07:30] * khuey is now known as khuey|away
# [07:30] <@bz> I was talking about the last all-hands
# [07:30] <@bz> the summit was probably more expensive
# [07:30] <derf> Yes, I was willing to believe > $400/person for the summit.
# [07:30] <glob> april's all-hands was probably more expensive per-person
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# [07:31] <@bz> ok
# [07:31] <@bz> it's so bedtime
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# [07:32] <derf> Good night, East Coast.
# [07:32] * kwierso puts the central coast to bed as well
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# [07:38] <SeoZ> mwu: ok.. i'm not that familiar with this code, so have no idea how to break it down.. do you have any suggestion or document for that?
# [07:39] <SeoZ> mwu: finally, i want to know how to use embedding api.
# [07:39] <SeoZ> mwu: 1. gecko initialize 2. using RenderDocument() API.
# [07:39] <mwu> SeoZ: sorry, I'm not familiar with this code
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# [07:40] <mwu> maybe dougt is
# [07:40] <mwu> I only have general suggestions on how to debug it
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# [07:43] <SeoZ> mwu: oh.. that's ok. how can i debug it?
# [07:44] <SeoZ> mwu: i need to step into XPCOMGlueLoadXUL?
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# [07:44] <SeoZ> mwu: i need to ask dougt more about the code then.
# [07:45] <mwu> yeah. you might be able to either break 'XPCOMGlueLoadXUL<tab> or break on the line before the call and step into it
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# [08:03] <jdm> aw man, no summit?
# [08:03] <jdm> I was really looking forward to being able to finally attend one
# [08:04] <jdm> I'll just have to do it the hard and and got visit every mozillian in person by myself
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# [08:06] <tbsaunde> == jdm
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# [08:07] <kwierso> well, at least I got to make it to the last all hands...
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# [08:22] <SeoZ> dougt: ping
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# [08:37] <mcpherrin> I'm seeing 3 favicon requests for a single pageload. Is that a bug? known? (Alternatively: Where would I file that...?)
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# [08:39] <tbsaunde> is bugzilla slow for anyone else?
# [08:39] <tbsaunde> perhapes s/slow/not going/
# [08:39] <glob> tbsaunde, wfm
# [08:39] <glob> tbsaunde, load across the servers looks fine too
# [08:40] <kwierso> tbsaunde: seems to be running faster than usual for me
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# [08:41] <glob> kwierso, i tweaked some settings yesterday
# [08:42] <jdm> mcpherrin: that would be filed somewhere in the firefox product, I expect
# [08:42] <kwierso> glob++
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# [08:56] <glazou> bonjour
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# [09:52] <gcp> taras: ping
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# [10:09] <darktrojan> hsivonen, I've finally written a test for bug 713810, should I post it in that bug or start a new one?
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# [10:28] <darktrojan> actually I might just hold off putting it anywhere
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# [11:04] <ewong> if I type about:rights in the location bar, which XUL file does it load?
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# [11:05] <darktrojan> go to view source, it'll show i nthe title bar
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# [11:06] <Ms2ger> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/browser/components/about/AboutRedirector.cpp
# [11:06] <Ms2ger> ewong, ^
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# [11:07] <darktrojan> toolkit/content/aboutRights.xhtml
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# [11:11] <ewong> Ms2ger, darktrojan thanks!
# [11:11] <Ms2ger> Np
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# [11:13] * Ms2ger lands
# [11:13] <darktrojan> you were flying?
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# [11:14] <darktrojan> levitating?
# [11:14] <Ms2ger> Developing?
# [11:14] <darktrojan> not as cool
# [11:14] <Octayn> darktrojan: no, it's way cooler
# [11:15] <darktrojan> orly
# [11:15] <Ms2ger> Ya wai
# [11:15] <darktrojan> any fool can develop, but levitating...
# [11:15] <Octayn> Well since no one can levitate..
# [11:16] <darktrojan> also better air circulation would make it actually cooler
# [11:16] <darktrojan> on that note I want a levitating laptop
# [11:16] <kanru> how do I force gc?
# [11:16] <Ms2ger> m.d.planning is much more fun to read if you ignore ESR and metrics collection
# [11:16] <darktrojan> about:memory has a GC button
# [11:17] <darktrojan> and the meeting notifications
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# [11:20] <kanru> darktrojan: if I want to call from code?
# [11:21] <darktrojan> dunno, but you could look at the source of that page to find out how they do it
# [11:21] <kanru> ok..
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# [11:23] <darktrojan> about:memory is much better with collapsable sections
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# [11:23] <Octayn> When did that land?
# [11:23] <darktrojan> last week I think
# [11:24] <Octayn> nice
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# [11:51] <darktrojan> what does it mean when I'm composing an email in thunderbird and the address is red?
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# [11:54] <glazou> darktrojan: that you need to pay $5 to dmose to see your message sent ;-)
# [11:54] <darktrojan> :( free internet my ass
# [11:56] <Archaeopteryx> darktrojan: To? not in your address book, iirc
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# [11:56] <darktrojan> that's what I thought, but they are
# [11:56] <darktrojan> maybe it's broken
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# [12:33] <Octayn> Is there telemetry data about number of people who have the warning off for when someone views a page https and it loads a non-https resource?
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# [12:37] <Archaeopteryx> Octayn: better ask in #metrics
# [12:37] <Octayn> Archaeopteryx: thanks!
# [12:39] <NeilAway> ooh, that must be the cheesiest recursive get service call ever
# [12:40] <Ms2ger> ?
# [12:42] <past> edmorley: when do we tag failures on tbpl with "r"?
# [12:43] <NeilAway> Ms2ger: something on my PC is chewing up the CPU (not sure what, might be my a/v)
# [12:44] <NeilAway> Ms2ger: unfortunately this triggered the slow script warning trying to start up my debug build
# [12:44] <NeilAway> Ms2ger: unfortunately this triggered the slow script warning trying to display the slow script warning
# [12:44] <Ms2ger> Hah
# [12:44] <Ms2ger> past, when we've given up on android
# [12:45] <past> what does the "r" stand for? Random?
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# [12:45] * darktrojan wonders if dwitte's "not reading bugmail" extends to "not giving sr+ because of not reading bugmail"
# [12:45] <Callek> "r" stands for "retried"
# [12:45] <past> ah
# [12:45] <darktrojan> or rabbit
# [12:45] <darktrojan> probably not in this case though
# [12:45] <Callek> as in "what the heck is this, its not filed but looks random -- lets find out"
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# [12:46] <past> makes sense, but I like rabbit better
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# [12:48] <darktrojan> gah
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# [12:48] <darktrojan> mozillians is getting on my nerves
# [12:50] <darktrojan> it makes this ex-webdev cringe
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# [12:52] <Ms2ger> A summit on a cruise ship? Sounds good to me
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# [12:52] <darktrojan> as long as it's not going near an island
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# [12:53] <Ms2ger> "Mozilla shuts down its Firefox browser, as most developers drowned in a cruise ship accident"
# [12:54] <NeilAway> Ms2ger: line 331 of XPCOMUtils.jsm if you're interested ;-)
# [12:54] <darktrojan> that would be as close to the hypothetical "moco hit by a bus" as we could get
# [12:54] <Ms2ger> I'm not :)
# [12:55] <Ms2ger> darktrojan, through really, we'd have to shut it down if just bz was hit by a bus...
# [12:55] <darktrojan> oh yeah :/
# [12:55] <darktrojan> why haven't we locked him away in a room yet?
# [12:55] <edmorley> past: sorry was afk - yeah r for retried, as in Android tests are flaky and will be until bug 690311 and friends are resolved, which we've been told may be Q2 \o/
# [12:56] <darktrojan> Ms2ger, where are you reading about summits and cruise ships? (surely these things are mutually exclusive)
# [12:56] <Ms2ger> #developers backscroll
# [12:57] <Ms2ger> http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/developers/20120210#l-1370
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# [13:00] <darktrojan> yeah, I'm there
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# [13:00] <darktrojan> antarctica summit? I'm halfway there
# [13:00] <darktrojan> let's do it
# [13:01] <darktrojan> I wouldn't even need a passport, depending on which base it's at
# [13:01] <Ms2ger> http://mozilla-antarctica.org/
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# [13:01] * NeilAway reads scrollback and wonders how many tweets it would take to upload an ISO
# [13:02] <darktrojan> base64'd?
# [13:03] <darktrojan> 700mb / 140b * 4 / 3
# [13:03] <Callek> NeilAway: I don't know, why don't you try with the MSVC2010 Pro (w/key) version
# [13:03] <darktrojan> roughly
# [13:03] <Callek> the DVD-format iso
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# [13:08] <Ms2ger> "Eliminate ***all*** Unicode handling deficiencies"
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# [13:11] <edmorley> Ms2ger: less reading, more starring your push mr lazy ;-P
# [13:12] <Ms2ger> Bah, leaks
# [13:12] <NeilAway> bah, that means I won't get to play Rock Band again :s
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# [13:12] <Ms2ger> edmorley, code's compi^W^W tbpl's loading!
# [13:12] <edmorley> ha
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# [13:13] <Ms2ger> https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getLeakAnalysis.php?id=9236437
# [13:13] <Ms2ger> Hah
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# [13:14] <edmorley> ooh it's working again now :-)
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# [13:16] <Ms2ger> glob|away, ping
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# [13:28] <dao> glazou_errand: would it make sense to try getting testsuites like css3test.com to punish browsers for nonstandard properties and properties that shouldn't be prefixed anymore?
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# [13:29] <Ms2ger> dao, I love how "The CSS3 Test" tests CSS4 stuff
# [13:29] <NeilAway> Ms2ger: hey, my original unrepsonsive script dialog has finally opened :-)
# [13:29] <Ms2ger> NeilAway, \o/
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# [13:30] <Ms2ger> Cheaters
# [13:30] <Ms2ger> WebKit claims to support CSS3 background-repeat, but its LYING
# [13:30] <Ms2ger> Hah
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# [13:31] <dao> css3 is just a buzzword here. people don't know what's part of it
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# [13:31] * edmorley wonders how many more Ms2ger editor cleanups there will have to be before we can stop making fun it of
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# [13:31] <edmorley> s/it of/of it/ even
# [13:31] <Ms2ger> More than I wish to think of
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# [13:32] * Ms2ger cleans up quirks instead
# [13:33] <NeilAway> Ms2ger: it blames line 35 of text.xml for some reason
# [13:34] <Ms2ger> edmorley, bah, landing onto my unstarred orange :)
# [13:34] <Ms2ger> But it's Android, so, *shrug*
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# [13:34] <edmorley> Ms2ger: it wasn't when I pushed ;-)
# [13:35] <edmorley> (the tree equivalent of: "the light was green when I pulled out officer, honest!"
# [13:35] <edmorley> )
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# [13:36] <Ms2ger> edmorley, pff, you're the officer :)
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# [13:41] <Ms2ger> Looks like jmaher|afk gets to look after the nightlies
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# [13:42] <Wiesel> Hey guys. Is there any way to debug JavaScript XPCOM components?
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# [13:48] <ejpbruel> Wiesel: using gdb?
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# [13:49] <ejpbruel> Wiesel: what are you trying to debug, exactly?
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# [13:59] <cers> if I were to sweet-talk someone into mentoring me a bit in implementing some gecko css stuff, any ideas as to whom that someone might be? :-)
# [14:00] <Ms2ger> dbaron?
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# [14:01] <cers> Ms2ger: noted - I guess I will send him an email :-)
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# [14:03] <Wiesel> ejpbruel, well I have an XPCOM component and would like to create an XTF element with it
# [14:03] <glazou_errand> nick glazou
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# [14:03] <Wiesel> unfortunately that doesn't work as the createElement method is not called and I would love to know why
# [14:04] <ejpbruel> Wiesel: sorry, i dont know too much about that. you might try asking khuey.
# [14:04] <glazou> dao: not really I'm afraid
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# [14:05] <Wiesel> ejpbruel, ok. Thanks anyhow
# [14:06] <gcp> btw, why is the "Tools" Menu not in the menu under the firefox button on windows?
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# [14:08] <lurking> because all the tools under 'tools' already exist in different parts of the Firefox button ?
# [14:09] <gcp> that's just not true
# [14:11] <gcp> plugins are missing. so is page info.
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# [14:12] <gcp> View->Page style is also one of those things that got the shaft
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# [14:12] <gcp> so is zoom
# [14:14] <lurking> zom, page style are under 'view' not 'tools' - and yes they are not in the menu button
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# [14:37] <edmorley> I presume there isn't a way to tell in which group an access denied bug lies?
# [14:37] <Ms2ger> Not that I know of
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# [14:38] <Ms2ger> Besides asking timeless
# [14:38] <edmorley> I'll just resort to pinging the changeset author
# [14:39] <NeilAway> Ms2ger: darn, now I've hit the JS assert you get when you nest slow script warnings
# [14:39] <Ms2ger> NeilAway, not a good day for you, is it? :)
# [14:40] <NeilAway> Ms2ger: well, at least I've patched sMaxChromeScriptTime to INT64_MAX
# [14:40] <NeilAway> well, sMaxChromeSomethingOrOther
# [14:41] <Callek> edmorley: the idea on why not is that sometimes the mere group names can be a leak thats a problem
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# [14:42] <edmorley> yeah indeed
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# [14:46] * Ms2ger wonders
# [14:46] <edmorley> Quick, duck for cover! :P
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# [14:47] <bolg> Ms2ger: pong
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# [14:47] <Ms2ger> Hi, er, oh, glob
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# [14:49] <Ms2ger> bolg, so if I use the search box on b.m.o/, the text box on the search results page has my query with ;list_id=2291437 appended
# [14:49] <Ms2ger> (Something else I learned today: searching for "foo" gives 1845 results)
# [14:51] <bolg> yup, the listid makes the next/prev bug in list stuff work (used to be in a cookie pre bugzilla 4)
# [14:51] <Ms2ger> Yeah, that's not new
# [14:51] <Ms2ger> Only it was in the URL instead of the <input>
# [14:52] <bolg> ohh
# [14:52] * bolg is sleepy
# [14:53] <bolg> pls file a bug, bmo product
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# [14:53] <Ms2ger> bolg, General?
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# [14:54] <bolg> yes please
# [14:55] <edmorley> bha, why do I have to get the new random orange on my push... booo
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# [14:56] <Ms2ger> edmorley, :)
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# [14:57] <bolg> Ms2ger: thanks
# [14:57] <Ms2ger> Np
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# [15:13] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: ping?
# [15:13] <Ms2ger> Hi
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# [15:14] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: Hey, with that patch that you requested feedback? on...
# [15:14] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: what were the try server oranges?
# [15:14] <Ms2ger> Yes
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# [15:16] <Ms2ger> https://tbpl.mozilla.org/php/getParsedLog.php?id=9208654&tree=Try
# [15:16] <Ms2ger> Was one
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# [15:22] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: looking now.
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# [15:34] <no_gravity> Hello from Germany! I seems Thunderbird fails to connect to my imap server without giving any indication of it. I start Thunderbird, it asks me for my password but then just displays the cached messages. Is this a bug?
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# [15:36] * mrbkap still doesn't agree with Ms2ger's use of JSObject& :/
# [15:37] <Ms2ger> There's a reason toObject() returns that
# [15:37] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: I know, but all of the public APIs still take JSObject*
# [15:37] <mounir> mrbkap: and?
# [15:37] * mounir agrees with Ms2ger
# [15:38] <Ms2ger> Uh-oh
# [15:38] <Ms2ger> mrbkap, you must be correct
# [15:38] <mrbkap> hah
# [15:38] <mrbkap> Thanks mounir!
# [15:38] <mrbkap> For me, at this point, using JSObject& and &obj everywhere is extra punctuation.
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# [15:39] <kutsurak> edmorley: ping
# [15:39] <mrbkap> Until we switch the API to take JSObject&
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# [15:41] <Ms2ger> mrbkap, otoh, these all assert that they get a non-null object, and if you have a JSObject&, you don't need to reason about that
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# [15:41] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: fwiw, you need to check the result of xpc_qsXPCOMObjectToJsval
# [15:41] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: that's not the bug, though.
# [15:41] <Ms2ger> I blame bjacob
# [15:42] <mrbkap> I also have a preference for opaque types being pointers.
# [15:42] <mounir> mrbkap: but after you will say that we can't change the api to use JSObject& because all consumers are using JSObject*...
# [15:42] <mrbkap> But that's certainly from all the time I spent in the JS engine when it was still C.
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# [15:43] <mrbkap> mounir: I'm really not that petty...
# [15:43] <mrbkap> I promise my goal is not to stop C++ progress.
# [15:43] <bjacob> Ms2ger: still fallout from my initial crappy patch?
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# [15:43] <bjacob> Ms2ger: mrbkap: thanks for working on this anyway, it's super important for us in webgl!
# [15:44] <mounir> mrbkap: you are not? I must be confusing with another french-speaking bearded american :)
# [15:44] <Ms2ger> bjacob, I can't say it's all that important over here :)
# [15:44] <mrbkap> oof :(
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# [15:44] <Ms2ger> "oof"
# [15:45] <Ms2ger> Well, that already proves you're French
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# [15:45] <bjacob> Ms2ger: it's required by webgl conformance tests so it's important to me :)
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# [15:45] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: no it doesn't... if I were French, I'd spell it "ouf" and use it as "you're totally ouf"
# [15:45] <bjacob> mrbkap: nice, fast learner
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# [15:46] <bjacob> mrbkap: you chirede vegra
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# [15:47] <Ms2ger> Kids, be nice
# [15:47] <bjacob> Ms2ger: that meant "you rock hard"
# [15:48] <mounir> in a language no one speak
# [15:48] <bjacob> well, no one past age 19
# [15:48] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: do you know if this crash happens regularly?
# [15:49] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: i.e. is it possible to get it in a debugger?
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# [15:50] <Ms2ger> Often enough on try https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=da3f5e4f8156
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# [15:56] <Ms2ger> khuey, are you planning to backout the border-image bug?
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# [15:58] <@khuey> yes
# [15:58] <Ms2ger> Good
# [15:59] <edmorley> kutsurak: hi :-)
# [16:00] * @khuey grumbles
# [16:00] <@khuey> apparently there are multiple worker shutdown hangs
# [16:00] <kutsurak> edmorley: hey... :)
# [16:01] <kutsurak> I was wondering how to send a patch at the try server but it seems like I did it without breaking anything important :)
# [16:01] <edmorley> kutsurak: cool :-)
# [16:01] <edmorley> yeah just spotted https://tbpl.mozilla.org/?tree=Try&rev=6c114e3b8c55 in bugmail
# [16:01] <Ms2ger> edmorley, you've got a bug 694772
# [16:02] <edmorley> Ms2ger: ah thank you :-)
# [16:02] <edmorley> kutsurak: looks good
# [16:02] <kutsurak> great :) thanks.
# [16:02] * Ms2ger fights LaTeX some more
# [16:03] <kutsurak> I'll have to leave for a while, if something comes up, I'll bother you later... :)
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# [16:04] <edmorley> kutsurak: catch you later :-)
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# [16:14] <cers> khuey: wait, is there a border-image bug in nightly? because I was trying to get one to work the other day for a project and eventually gave up.
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# [16:14] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: so, I've read through the patch and I don't see anything obvious that would cause the crash.
# [16:14] <@khuey> cers: not that I know of
# [16:14] <@khuey> cers: the syntax changed though
# [16:14] <Ms2ger> Me neither :(
# [16:14] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: That being said, I don't fully understand the qsgen.py changes.
# [16:14] <Ms2ger> Mm
# [16:14] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: So, I'm going to try to reproduce the crash and see if anything jumps out at me in the debugger.
# [16:14] <cers> khuey: ahh - I guess that might have been it
# [16:15] <Ms2ger> Custom quickstubs for jsval attributes are broken without those changes
# [16:15] <josh> roc: Bug 725917 raises an interesting question, I'm still wondering if my choice to change our behavior was a good one. Can you weigh in?
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# [16:41] <bjacob> am i the only one to find the big "powered by mozilla" on http://dxr.mozilla.org/mozilla/ to be silly?
# [16:42] <bjacob> i'd rather have a more explanatory "mozilla source code search"
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# [16:43] <bjacob> uh, it's also broken atm
# [16:43] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/2d409ed569e0 - Joel Maher - Bug 725716 - [xperf fix] upload a new talos.zip. r=armenzg
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# [16:47] <timeless> edmorley: there are some evil way sto figure out which group is protecting a bug
# [16:48] <timeless> but generally, no you can't. the easiest way is to ask Asa or Gerv
# [16:48] <timeless> as they're in most groups and can just look
# [16:48] <timeless> (historically I'd ask Reed, but i don't think he has that hat anymore)
# [16:49] <edmorley> timeless: thank you :-)
# [16:49] <timeless> yw
# [16:49] <@khuey> what's the bug?
# [16:49] <edmorley> pm
# [16:50] <timeless> if you are willing to guess it's a MoCo related group, then any moco person (esp khuey ) would work
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# [16:50] <@khuey> yeah it's a MoCo bug
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# [16:50] * @khuey fixes that
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# [16:51] <@khuey> alright it's open
# [16:51] <edmorley> khuey: great, thanks :-)
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# [16:52] <@khuey> edmorley: you have sg bug access, right?
# [16:52] <edmorley> yeah
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# [16:53] <@khuey> ok, if you can't see it it's almost certainly some form of MoCo-confidential then
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# [16:56] <edmorley> and hopefully time will fix that :-)
# [16:56] <@khuey> heh
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# [16:57] <timeless> khuey: not true
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# [16:57] <timeless> it could be legal or marketing or it
# [16:58] <timeless> although i suppose "some form of" is hand-wavy :)
# [16:58] <timeless> edmorley: hopefully asking someone will fix individual bugs
# [16:58] <timeless> we haven't really established any way to age bugs into the public eye
# [16:58] <@khuey> timeless: well, the likelihood of code getting checked in from legal, marketing, netscape-confidential, etc is extremely low
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# [16:59] <timeless> i think we've had some from legal :)
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# [16:59] <timeless> and if you include the web sites then marketing is covered
# [16:59] <timeless> but i'll give you netscape-confi for people who don't go spelunking :)
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# [16:59] * timeless sighs
# [16:59] <timeless> now where my misplaced app go?
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# [17:01] <@smaug> tn: ping
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# [17:09] <mbrubeck> What's with this random "configure: error: Breakpad tools do not support compiling on WINNT while targeting WINNT" build failure on Win64 on inbound?
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# [17:10] <mbrubeck> Doesn't seem to be a problem with the slave: https://build.mozilla.org/buildapi/recent/w64-ix-slave18
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# [17:12] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: still there?
# [17:12] <Ms2ger> Yep
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# [17:13] <nemo> so, if I do a quick n dirty. for(var i=0;i<elements.length;i++) elements[i].onclick = function() { }; - does Firefox make elements.length copies of function() or just one?
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# [17:13] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: So I'm pretty sure that the bug in the patch is that we're calling PreserveWrapper on an ImageData object before *it* has an object itself.
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# [17:13] <nemo> just wondering if it is better to use a named function if the length is really long
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# [17:13] <Ms2ger> Ah?
# [17:15] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: I'm not entirely sure what happens after that, though.
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# [17:17] <mrbkap> Yeah.
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# [17:18] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: So, on creation of the ImageData object, we call PreserveWrapper.
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# [17:18] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: That sets a bit on the WrapperCache.
# [17:18] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: Then, later, we wrap the C++ object into JS.
# [17:19] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: Which sets the wrapper cache's wrapper.
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# [17:19] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: But that clears the fact that we've already preserved the wrapper.
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# [17:19] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: Which make nsContentUtils::ReleaseWrapper a no-op.
# [17:20] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: and we never remove the ImageData from the list of preserved wrappers, leading to the crash.
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# [17:20] <Ms2ger> Aha
# [17:20] <taras> gcp: sup
# [17:20] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: I'm not sure how best to fix this.
# [17:20] <Ms2ger> taras, still freezing
# [17:21] <Ms2ger> mrbkap, if you don't, I sure hope you don't expect *me* to figure it out :)
# [17:21] <gcp> taras: bug 726002
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# [17:22] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: Well, I don't want to fix it :)
# [17:22] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: I suspect the easiest thing to do would be to separate the rooting of mData from construction.
# [17:23] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: So in order to construct an ImageData object, you create the C++ thing, wrap it in JS and *then* set mData on it.
# [17:23] <taras> gcp: i'm not really sure what you are asking
# [17:23] <Ms2ger> Mhmm
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# [17:23] <taras> Ms2ger: ?
# [17:23] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: And its setting mData which calls nsContentUtils::PreserveWrapper.
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# [17:23] <mrbkap> its -> it
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# [17:23] <Ms2ger> it -> it's?
# [17:23] <mrbkap> er, yes.
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# [17:24] <gcp> taras: jlebar already commented :P
# [17:24] <Ms2ger> oof
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# [17:25] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: Does that make sense, either way?
# [17:25] <timeless> nemo: did you try using === on two of them?
# [17:25] <Ms2ger> Er
# [17:25] <Ms2ger> If you mean whether I understood it well enough to write the patch, yes
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# [17:26] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: Yeah, cool.
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# [17:26] <Ms2ger> Hmm
# [17:27] <nemo> timeless: well, I assumed that would return different results. I was just curious if internally, such an optimisation was performed
# [17:27] <Ms2ger> mrbkap, while I have your attention...
# [17:27] <nemo> timeless: oh. fine. lemme check :-p
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# [17:27] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: ?
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# [17:27] <timeless> better than me, i'd have to run gecko :)
# [17:27] <Ms2ger> When I set tmp->mData to null inside unlink, do I have to nsContentUtils::ReleaseWrapper?
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# [17:28] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: I don't know off the top of my head.
# [17:28] <Ms2ger> Alright, thanks
# [17:29] <nemo> timeless: === does indeed return false, but I kinda expected that :)
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# [17:30] <Ms2ger> mrbkap, hmm, so how do I wrap the C++ thing in JS?
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# [17:31] <jlebar> gcp, Does that seem sensible?
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# [17:32] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: That's the big call to qsXPCOMObjectToJsval.
# [17:32] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: Basically, that call has to happen before the call to nsContentUtils::PreserveWrapper.
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# [17:33] <Ms2ger> mrbkap, and if I'm in nsCanvasRenderingContext2D::GetImageData?
# [17:33] <gcp> jlebar: I'm not dying of enthousiasm to go that route.
# [17:33] * mrbkap looks.
# [17:34] <jlebar> gcp, Well, that's good. :)
# [17:34] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: that's... unfortunate.
# [17:35] <Ms2ger> XPCOM? Yeah, it is
# [17:35] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: I'm *so* tempted to just say to wrap it manually right there.
# [17:35] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: And then let XPCOM re-fetch the JS object as we return from the method.
# [17:35] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: but that is *so* ugly...
# [17:35] <gcp> jlebar: I added another proposal in the bug.
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# [17:36] <jlebar> gcp, I see. Commenting now. :)
# [17:36] <Ms2ger> mrbkap, as in, wrap it and then just return the C++ object?
# [17:37] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: Yes.
# [17:37] <Ms2ger> :/
# [17:37] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: but let me think a little.
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# [17:37] <Ms2ger> Think as long as you like, I'm not going to be finished fighting LaTeX just yet :)
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# [17:39] <lachsen> Hi there. We are currently trying to develop an extension here. I managed to get the extension run on other machines with Firefox 9... but my current laptop wih Firefox 10 always displayes the extension as disabled... and I can't find the reason...
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# [17:41] <lachsen> Can anybody think of a reason? I don't get any error message in the Error Console...
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# [17:43] <Wiesel> lachsen, What happens if you try to start Firefox from within a normal console? Any messages there?
# [17:44] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: the cleanest solution I can think of is to do the rooting in a PostCreate hook in nsDOMClassInfo.
# [17:45] <Ms2ger> Clean and nsDOMClassInfo in one sentence?
# [17:45] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: clean*est*
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# [17:45] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: it's all relative.
# [17:45] <Ms2ger> Mm
# [17:46] <Ms2ger> So with Canvas 2D coming up next for the new DOM bindings, I'm not sure that's a good idea
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# [17:47] <lachsen> @Wiesel: I simply don't get any output from the console...
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# [17:48] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: actually, are you sure you need that call to PreserveWrapper?
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# [17:48] <Ms2ger> No
# [17:48] <Ms2ger> khuey told me to
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# [17:50] <mrbkap> khuey: ping?
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# [17:51] <@khuey> hmm?
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# [17:51] <@khuey> what did I do this time?
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# [17:52] <Ms2ger> khuey, make me call PreserveWrapper in the ImageData patch
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# [17:52] <@khuey> uh
# [17:52] <@khuey> I'd have to look at my IRC logs to see why
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# [17:53] <@khuey> and I'm about to head off to go look at an apartment
# [17:53] <jhammel> khuey: good luck!
# [17:53] <@khuey> jhammel: heh, thanks
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# [17:55] <maslet02> hello
# [17:55] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: I'd ask bent or peterv, all else failing.
# [17:55] <maslet02> have a question about the sessionStorage.setItem function in firefox 3.6 til 8
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# [17:55] <maslet02> I'm writing unit tests for a javascript module that uses sessionsStorage.setItem
# [17:55] <Ms2ger> Mhmm
# [17:56] <waschtl> http://memecreator.net/y-u-no/generated.php?imgid=4654
# [17:56] <maslet02> I've overwritten sessionStorage.setItem with my own function so I can assert that my JS is calling setItem correctly
# [17:56] <maslet02> problem is when I do this...
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# [17:56] <maslet02> window.sessionStorage.setItem = function(a,b) { ... }
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# [17:56] <maslet02> setItem is then turned into a string
# [17:56] <maslet02> is that expected behaviour? Mocking setItem works in webkit
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# [17:57] <waschtl> just to be more specific, i'm having trouble building the current trunk of mozilla-central on ubuntu 11.10
# [17:57] <Ms2ger> mrbkap, so how about I do the wrapper dance in C++...
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# [17:57] <waschtl> using the instructions at https://developer.mozilla.org/En/Simple_Firefox_build
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# [17:57] <gcp> jlebar: I'm thinking what I'd hope to see in those OOM-telemetry
# [17:58] <gcp> jlebar: ideally, people with almost no free RAM getting a normal sized update
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# [17:58] <gcp> jlebar: what I'm afraid to see: plenty free RAM, normal size prefixset update, and still OOM
# [17:58] <Ms2ger> waschtl, put the error on pastebin.mozilla.org, please
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# [17:58] <waschtl> Ms2ger: got it
# [17:58] <jlebar> gcp, So how are you going to observe that it's a normal-sized update?
# [17:59] <gcp> jlebar: because that's what the current data suggest
# [17:59] <waschtl> Ms2ger: just a sec
# [17:59] <jlebar> gcp, The current telemetry data?
# [17:59] <gcp> jlebar: the patch moves the telemetry update on the size of the prefixset just before OOM-ing
# [17:59] <gcp> jlebar: so, if we have a telemetry entry with OOM, look at the telemetry for prefixset update
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# [17:59] <jlebar> gcp, But there may be many prefixset updates for that one telemetry ping, no?
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# [18:00] <jlebar> gcp, You'll I guess have to look to see whether any of those prefixset updates was abnormal.
# [18:00] <gcp> I'd just get the average through telemetry, eh?
# [18:00] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: Yeah, try that for now, I guess.
# [18:00] <gcp> and we can't distinguish users
# [18:00] <jlebar> gcp, Well, no...
# [18:01] <jlebar> gcp, Can't distinguish users, that's true.
# [18:01] <jlebar> gcp, You'd look at all telemetry pings which have an OOM and then look at their individual (non-averaged) prefixset update sizes.
# [18:01] <gcp> but you just made the point that one ping can have several updates?
# [18:01] <jlebar> gcp, But if I did five prefixset updates and OOM'ed on the last one, I don't think you could tell which update caused the OOM. That might still be OK.
# [18:02] <jlebar> You could see all the update sizes, individually, not averaged.
# [18:02] <jlebar> But without temporal data.
# [18:02] <gcp> ok
# [18:02] <gcp> if they're all similar, the size can't be the problem :P
# [18:02] <jlebar> Also, we do not have the capability to see this using any of our tools, so you'd have to get metrics to run this analysis for you.
# [18:03] <gcp> I understood that, yes.
# [18:03] <jlebar> Cool.
# [18:03] <gcp> What do you think about this, really? Better than making builds crash again and backing that out?
# [18:03] <maslet02> hi
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# [18:04] <jlebar> gcp, If you think it's low-volume enough that we'd need the analysis on aurora or beta, then going with telemetry seems safer.
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# [18:04] <jlebar> gcp, If it happened all the time on Nightly, I'd just make it crash.
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# [18:06] <waschtl> Ms2ger: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1481749
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# [18:08] <jlebar> mak, fwiw, my wife saw a back-from-idle hang on Aurora this morning. I wasn't able to get you a stack before she force-closed it; sorry. :(
# [18:08] <Ms2ger> Eh
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# [18:08] <mak> jlebar: the patch is not yet in Aurora, fwiw
# [18:08] <jlebar> mak, But I thought you were saying that the patch is not necessary to fix hangs in Aurora?
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# [18:09] <mak> jlebar: I hope I never said that, since it would be a lie!
# [18:09] <gcp> jlebar: well, I just replaced all this code on nightly :P
# [18:09] <gcp> jlebar: hence the bug we're commenting in
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# [18:09] <jlebar> mak, It might be worth clarifying in bug 723044; it sounds to me like you're saying that the fix is only for "data coherence reasons" in comment 7.
# [18:10] <mak> jlebar: damn english language :p ok
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# [18:10] <Ms2ger> waschtl, that looks weird
# [18:10] <Ms2ger> Maybe khuey|away can help you once he bought that house
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# [18:11] <waschtl> Ms2ger: that explains why i couldn't find anything on google
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# [18:12] <jlebar> gcp, In the patch you posted, it looks like mCompletions is an infallible TArray.
# [18:12] <jlebar> gcp, Is that expected?
# [18:12] <waschtl> Ms2ger: it was on a completely fresh ubuntu
# [18:12] <gcp> jlebar: unfortunately yes. I rewrote all this code before I was aware of the OOM issues in the prefixset handling.
# [18:13] <jlebar> gcp, But you don't want to make it fallible in this patch?
# [18:13] <gcp> jlebar: if we're "lucky", it'll start OOM-ing and we'll get traces.
# [18:13] <gcp> jlebar: only the path with the prefixset update, because that will cause the peak memory usage. redoing all the other code might be quite some work to deal with the error conditions.
# [18:13] <jlebar> okay.
# [18:14] <jlebar> gcp, Another question: This AddCompleteArray& comes in.
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# [18:14] <jlebar> gcp, What happens if we delete elements from it?
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# [18:14] <jlebar> gcp, Do we need those arrays after we've added their hashes to the relevant arrays?
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# [18:15] <gcp> jlebar: afaik, the next thing in the caller is to free them
# [18:15] <jlebar> gcp, So we could go through and remove elements from them.
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# [18:15] <jlebar> gcp, If you did that right -- it's tricky with TArray, but we could modify TArray to help you -- you could realloc() the arrays smaller as you build your new arrays.
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# [18:16] <waschtl> Ms2ger: thanks for the pointer - i think i'll post my issue to dev-builds mailing list, so that khuey|away will know how to answer when i'm away
# [18:16] <jlebar> gcp, Does that make sense?
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# [18:17] <gcp> jlebar: sounds fairly complicated
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# [18:17] <jlebar> gcp, Should be pretty easy.
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# [18:17] <jlebar> gcp, You're just removing from one array as you add to another.
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# [18:17] <jlebar> gcp, And occasionally calling ShrinkCapacity()
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# [18:17] <gcp> jlebar: my assumption is still that this code is having entirely normal RAM usage, and that the OOM is caused by something else
# [18:18] <jlebar> gcp, What does "entirely normal" mean?
# [18:18] <gcp> jlebar: <10M
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# [18:18] * jlebar cannot think of too many places in our code where we allocate 10M of contiguous memory.
# [18:18] <jlebar> Images...
# [18:19] <mrbkap> jlebar: relatedly: canvas.
# [18:19] <gcp> jlebar: maybe fixing it so the "array" is filled from AddPrefixes is possible. that's a very local optimization
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# [18:19] <gcp> jlebar: and I guess that is what you meant
# [18:20] <jlebar> gcp, /me is not sure; does not actually know this code. :)
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# [18:20] <jlebar> gcp, What do you mean, exactly?
# [18:21] <gcp> jlebar: array is essentially a direct copy of AddPrefixes
# [18:21] <gcp> jlebar: so yeah, in fact the memory usage there can be reduced by clearing addprefixes the moment array is constructed
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# [18:21] <jlebar> gcp, I mean, it's map(AddPrefixes, hash)
# [18:21] <gcp> jlebar: or even more by shrinking it
# [18:21] <jesup> jlebar: I'd have to check, we might allocate >10MB for video frames (if the resolution is large)
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# [18:22] <jlebar> gcp, It's a matter of doing the algorithm effectively "in-place".
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# [18:22] <jlebar> gcp, Not allocating any new memory.
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# [18:23] <jlebar> gcp, Or at least, working within a fixed set of memory.
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# [18:24] <mrbkap> bent: ping?
# [18:24] <bent> mrbkap, hi
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# [18:24] <mrbkap> bent: hey, so I was reading through Ms2ger's patch earlier...
# [18:25] <bent> which?
# [18:25] <mrbkap> bent: if he wants to keep a jsval alive, does he have to call PreserveWrapper on the containing object?
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# [18:25] <bent> preserve wrapper isn't really what you want in most cases i think
# [18:25] <@bsmedberg> is the 1.9.2 branch deceased yet?
# [18:25] <bent> but not sure what we're trying to do
# [18:25] <bent> need more context
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# [18:26] <mrbkap> bent: the patch is bug 550309
# [18:26] <mrbkap> bent: he has an object "ImageData" with a jsval array of data.
# [18:26] <mrbkap> bent: and he wants to keep that jsval alive for the lifetime of the outer object.
# [18:26] <mrbkap> bent: in other words, he wants a trace hook.
# [18:26] <bent> right
# [18:26] <bent> ok
# [18:27] <bent> so the thing about preservewrapper is that it pins the wrapper
# [18:27] <bent> which is not what he wants here
# [18:27] <mrbkap> bent: Right.
# [18:27] <bent> he wants a trace hook
# [18:27] <bent> so CC macros with a Trace method
# [18:27] <bent> is the right way
# [18:27] * Ms2ger grumbles at khuey|away
# [18:28] <bent> it's a tough call, almost
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# [18:28] <bent> because you have to do lots of manual work for something that is close to what you want
# [18:28] <bent> er
# [18:28] <bent> lots of manual work to do it right, when a simple thing with little manula work is almost what you want
# [18:29] <Ms2ger> I have no idea what you mean :)
# [18:29] <jhammel> Ms2ger: for spending that much on an apartment? i know, right?
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# [18:29] <bent> but preservewrapper can hold a window alive, so don't do it unless you have to
# [18:29] <Ms2ger> khuey told me I had to
# [18:29] <bent> (expandos are really the only have-to i think)
# [18:29] * bear-afk is now known as bear
# [18:29] <bent> (peterv would be able to say for sure)
# [18:30] <Ms2ger> Well, that would involve be managing to pin down peterv :)
# [18:30] <bent> yeah, looks like friday night has already started for him
# [18:30] <bent> mrbkap, all that make sense?
# [18:31] <mrbkap> bent: Yes, except that I don't understand how the Trace method gets called without the PreserveWrapper call.
# [18:31] <bent> via CC
# [18:32] <Ms2ger> So I was going to document what was needed in my case, but I'm so lost I've given up on that
# [18:32] <Ms2ger> Sorry sheppy :)
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# [18:33] <bent> moral of the story is that any DOM thing holding raw JS things needs CC+Trace
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# [18:33] <mrbkap> bent: so if Ms2ger already has CC macros with a Trace and Unlink hook, he's set?
# [18:33] * Ms2ger looks at his code
# [18:33] <bent> yes
# [18:33] <Ms2ger> And NS_IMPL_CYCLE_COLLECTION_TRAVERSE_SCRIPT_OBJECTS?
# [18:33] <bent> just make sure to trace it
# [18:33] <evilpie> since this week firefox sometimes just doesn't load new sites or refreshes like if my internet is down :/
# [18:34] <evilpie> how could i debug that=
# [18:34] <bent> Ms2ger, depends... does this thing inherit wrappercache already?
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# [18:34] <Ms2ger> I made it so because of khuey
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# [18:34] <bent> oh
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# [18:34] <jlebar> gcp, You're only allocating 10mb in total?
# [18:34] <Callek> bbondy: soooo, out of curiosity does the win8 work require new toolchain setups?
# [18:35] <jlebar> gcp, How big are these arrays?
# [18:35] <gcp> jlebar: max 500k entries per list. completion is 0 most of the time.
# [18:35] * Callek is not whom will be setting it up, just trying to figure out out in rough thinking as to how it may affect SeaMonkey
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# [18:35] <gcp> jlebar: addprefixes is hence 8bytes*500k
# [18:35] <bent> Ms2ger, ok, so, looking at your patch...
# [18:35] <bent> Ms2ger, i'd remove the wrapper cache bits
# [18:35] <bbondy> Callek: I'm sure that will come eventually ya
# [18:35] <gcp> jlebar: the copy is 4bytes*500k, constructing the prefixset about the same
# [18:35] <Ms2ger> Alright
# [18:35] <bent> Ms2ger, keep the CC+trace
# [18:35] <bent> and yes
# [18:35] <gcp> jlebar: that's 8M max, unless I missed a copy somewhere
# [18:35] <bent> Ms2ger, you need NS_IMPL_CYCLE_COLLECTION_TRAVERSE_SCRIPT_OBJECTS
# [18:35] <jlebar> gcp, mm, okay.
# [18:36] <jlebar> gcp, You'll agree, it's kind of a lot of temporary data to hold on to.
# [18:36] <Callek> bbondy: so initially no new toolchains required, (as in, w7SDK is enough, no need for a special win8 SDK of some sort)
# [18:36] <jlebar> gcp, But I dunno...maybe it's just Windows running out of RAM and you have nothing to worry about.
# [18:36] * gcp looks at his 6Gb RAM machine
# [18:36] <bent> Ms2ger, also, you need to call unmarkgray() on your object before handing it out
# [18:36] <Ms2ger> bent, so NS_WRAPPERCACHE_INTERFACE_MAP_ENTRY and the Release/PreserveWrapper are all that should go in ImageData.cpp?
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# [18:36] <gcp> jlebar: I think there are some quick wins, so I'll add a follow-up patch.
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# [18:37] <Ms2ger> xpc_UnmarkGrayObject?
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# [18:37] <bbondy> Callek: We'll need the newer SDK but at first we will be doing prototyping and just need source control
# [18:37] <Callek> bbondy: also I'm curious if you need/want/whatever win8 test-machines specced/created as a testbed (again just brainstorming and in no means a person to decide direction or do any of this work -- at least yet)
# [18:37] <evilpie> since this week firefox has strange connectivity problems
# [18:37] <bent> Ms2ger, i think so
# [18:37] <evilpie> sites just load forevery whithout showing up, gmail warns me about a lost connection
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# [18:37] <bent> Ms2ger, yes
# [18:37] <evilpie> how could i debug that?
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# [18:37] <Callek> sounds reasonable
# [18:37] <bent> Ms2ger, oh, and , public nsWrapperCache
# [18:37] <bbondy> Callek: This hasn't bene planned out at all yet but I assume we'll have a project created soon to go over this and other related things.
# [18:37] <Ms2ger> Well, duh :)
# [18:38] <Callek> bbondy: fwiw my *gut* feeling [as an outsider] is if the project is expected to be temporary (even if a long-life temporary) a twig is better than a project branch
# [18:38] <bent> Ms2ger, and then your Root/Unroot
# [18:38] <Ms2ger> Yeah
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# [18:38] <Callek> bbondy: if the project is a future-still-used project branch thats another story
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# [18:38] <Ms2ger> mrbkap, so I can keep setting mData in the constructor, right?
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# [18:39] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: Yes.
# [18:39] <Ms2ger> \o/
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# [18:39] <bbondy> It could be a branch alive for a couple years for example so not sure what's best
# [18:39] <bbondy> I just know I get emails about giving my twig back all the time :)
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# [18:39] <bbondy> that I'm using for silent update
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# [18:39] <bent> bbondy, when does the auto-apply update thing land?
# [18:40] <bbondy> bent: land where
# [18:40] <bent> m-c?
# [18:40] <bbondy> bent: It's on nightly and aurora
# [18:40] <bent> oh really?
# [18:40] <bbondy> bent: do you mean the uac thing? ya
# [18:40] <bent> no no
# [18:40] <bent> the
# [18:40] <bbondy> oh
# [18:40] <bbondy> background update?
# [18:40] <bent> ehsan's auto-
# [18:40] <bent> yeah
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# [18:40] <bbondy> ah ok
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# [18:40] <bbondy> I would guesstimate 2-4weeks.
# [18:41] <bent> cool
# [18:41] <bent> you guys are kickig ass
# [18:41] <bbondy> it's been done for a while but it's in queue to be reviewed
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# [18:41] <bbondy> thx :)
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# [18:42] <bent> we need more reviewers :-/
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# [18:42] <Ms2ger> bent, mrbkap, thanks!
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# [18:42] <bent> np
# [18:42] <Ms2ger> khuey|away, I hate you :)
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# [18:43] <bent> bbondy, oh, you took bug 551427
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# [18:43] <mrbkap> np
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# [18:43] <bent> bbondy, i actually got a hang report on that once, it was in nsLocalFile::Close()
# [18:43] <bent> er
# [18:43] <bbondy> I had it thrust upon me :P but I would probably have taken it anyway :)
# [18:43] <bent> something about buffered file output stream ::close()
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# [18:44] <bent> just fyi
# [18:44] <bbondy> ok
# [18:44] <bbondy> so flushing probably
# [18:44] <bent> yeah
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# [18:44] <bent> always seems to happen on bigger files
# [18:44] <bent> try with a linux.iso or something
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# [18:45] <bbondy> ya I downloaded a mozilla video file once before and seen it
# [18:45] <bbondy> but it's not consistent
# [18:46] <mccr8> hrm. the refcount balancer link on the dev wiki seems dead.
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# [19:02] <philor> khuey|away: you're going to have to deal with your CC crash on beta, because I've got no clue whether that's you or not
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# [19:06] <@bsmedberg> configure: warning: Cannot build gnomevfs without required libraries. Removing gnomevfs from MOZ_EXTENSIONS.
# [19:06] * @bsmedberg hackles
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# [19:09] <kwierso> bbondy: hrm, I saw the update progress bar for the first time in a while this morning applying today's nightly update... not sure if it was something on my end or what
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# [19:09] <philor> wasn't someone supposed to remove everything from MOZ_EXTENSIONS several years ago?
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# [19:10] <philor> I did all the easy stuff, I thought surely someone would then want to do the hard bits
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# [19:11] <derf> Has anyone ever wanted to do the hard bits of anything?
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# [19:11] <rnewman> that's what she… oh wait.
# [19:12] <bbondy> kwierso: That's intentional, that will be gone when background updates is released
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# [19:13] <kwierso> bbondy: oh? I haven't seen them for at least a few weeks. something change recently?
# [19:13] <bbondy> yup landed a patch for an indeterminate progress bar when applying updates
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# [19:13] <kwierso> ah
# [19:13] <bbondy> so there is some kind of visual queue for what happens
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# [19:14] <jhammel> bbondy: cue, i think
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# [19:14] <kwierso> ^
# [19:14] <jhammel> unless you're thinking of supermarket lines
# [19:14] <bbondy> oops ya
# [19:14] <bbondy> programming on my mind :)
# [19:14] <jhammel> heh
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# [19:16] <@ehsan> bent: basically when reviews are done
# [19:16] <bent> \o/
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# [19:18] <jyeo> paul: hi paul, i am trying to fix bug 706755
# [19:18] <jyeo> paul: but the changes i make to the source are not reflected in ff
# [19:19] <jyeo> paul: am i doing something wrong here?
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# [19:19] <paul> jyeo: hi!
# [19:20] <paul> jyeo: I am not 100% that what I suggested will work.
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# [19:20] <paul> jyeo: can you attach a patch to the bug and flag it for feedback (f?)?
# [19:21] <paul> jyeo: I will take a look
# [19:21] <jyeo> paul: okay
# [19:21] <jyeo> paul: i'm messing around with the browser/devtools/webconsole
# [19:21] <jyeo> paul: browser/devtools/webconsole/HUDService.jsm
# [19:22] <jyeo> is that the right source file?
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# [19:22] <paul> jyeo: which file in browser/devtools/webconsole?
# [19:22] <jyeo> paul: browser/devtools/webconsole/HUDService.jsm
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# [19:24] <msucan> jyeo: do you run make after each change?
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# [19:26] <jyeo> msucan: yes. i cd to my obj-dir/browser to make
# [19:27] <msucan> then, that's weird...
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# [19:29] <paul> jyeo: maybe the method I suggested doesn't work. Maybe you're doing something wrong. The best way to know it is to look at the patch
# [19:29] <ddahl> bent: if you have a moment it would be v. helpful to get some commentary from you on bug 440046 (getRandomValues)
# [19:30] <paul> jyeo: do you know how to create a patch from your code?
# [19:30] <bent> ddahl, ok, i'll look
# [19:30] <jyeo> paul: yes
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# [19:34] <philor> oh, yay, another test that causes Windows slaves to disconnect, those are my favorite
# [19:38] <edmorley> philor: quickCheckAPI-B2.html ?
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# [19:53] <philor> edmorley: which, oddly, doesn't seem to have changed since October
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# [19:55] <mak> philor: any idea how I may have a feed test accessing mochi.test:8888 failing on try (timeout on fetch) but passing on all platforms locally?
# [19:56] <mak> philor: I can't figure out what differs :(
# [19:56] <philor> mak: the only thing that occurs to me is that you probably aren't doing packaged tests locally, something that's not getting shipped?
# [19:57] <mak> philor: it's not a new test, it's an existing one, modified
# [19:57] <philor> huh
# [19:59] <mak> and it's not timing out on Win!
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# [20:07] <zwol> Is there a canned helper routine somewhere that will walk up the docshell tree until it finds one with a pres context?
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# [20:12] <gavin> why would you want to do that?
# [20:13] <bhearsum> what hash function do i want to use if i'm optimizing for speed? md5?
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# [20:14] <gcp> if you don't need any security, that's a decent pick yes
# [20:15] <bhearsum> yeah, security isn't an issue
# [20:15] <bhearsum> i could live with a tiny amount of collisions, too
# [20:15] <Callek> virus-scan hash-colision-avoidance
# [20:15] <jhammel> ah, then just `return 0` :P
# [20:15] <Callek> if I am reading between the lines
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# [20:16] <bhearsum> Callek: yes, this is for https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=699579
# [20:16] <Callek> (though it occurs to me that very few paying attention knew what I was referring to)
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# [20:17] <zwol> gavin: was that in reply to me? I need a pres context to convert device pixels to CSS pixels with, but I only have a docshell.
# [20:17] <zwol> gavin: and as far as I can tell, it is not guaranteed to have a pres context.
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# [20:18] <gcp> wait a minute
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# [20:18] <gcp> so if you get a virus that is able to match md5's on whatever it infects, you're screwed?
# [20:18] <bhearsum> er, no
# [20:18] <bhearsum> we've got a large set of files that we scan
# [20:18] <Callek> bhearsum: I'd think md5 would be fastest, and incase you don't know or forgot there is a python |hashlib| module by default
# [20:19] <bhearsum> and tons of binaries that are duplicated throughout all of our builds
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# [20:19] <Callek> gcp: the hashing is just to skip repeat file-hashes, so we only scan changed stuff
# [20:19] <bhearsum> so we don't want to scan the same file twice, because it's a severe waste of time
# [20:19] <Callek> gcp: optimizing so we don't repeat teh same work 30 times
# [20:19] <bhearsum> hrm. maybe we are subject to hash collision issues
# [20:19] <gcp> yes, but I don't see how that avoids what I just said.
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# [20:20] <bhearsum> well, all of the files that we'd be skipping are inside of signed packages
# [20:20] <bhearsum> so there's that
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# [20:20] <Callek> and yea, we do sha512sum the signed packages as well :-)
# [20:20] <Callek> (and publish those sums)
# [20:20] <bhearsum> nobody checks them though
# [20:21] <bhearsum> so i don't really think that helps...
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# [20:21] <Callek> bhearsum: I'd argue against nobody, but "statistically irrelevant" sure, but as you said the signing of the whole package helps a lot anyway
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# [20:21] <bhearsum> yes, if you want to split hairs
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# [20:22] <Callek> (basically I think if we removed them it would take a while for *any* complaints about that to bubble up through the channels)
# [20:23] <gcp> complaints? hahaha
# [20:23] <Callek> anyway, back to issue at hand, if possible (but unlikely) collisions are not a problem to you, md5sum is what I'd recommend
# [20:23] <bhearsum> anyways, md5 certainly seems like the fastest if we can live with collisions
# [20:23] <gcp> blake512sum :P
# [20:23] * bhearsum is going to run some tests, and take the debate to the bug
# [20:24] <bhearsum> gcp: thanks for pointing out the collision issue - much appreciated!
# [20:25] <Callek> bhearsum: also of worthy note, is that the collision issue would only be within one virus-scan run, since we only intend[ed] to cache for one run anyway
# [20:25] * @bsmedberg is going through a do; configure; sudoyuminstallsomething-devel; while true loop
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# [20:28] <WG9s> bsmedberg: if this is on an 64-bit system and you want to do 32-bit builds also you need to repeat for the i686 versions.
# [20:28] <gcp> Standard8: ping
# [20:28] <Standard8> gcp: pong
# [20:28] <gcp> Standard8: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=725872
# [20:28] <gcp> Standard8: there is nothing thunderbird specific when you run this xpcshell test, right?
# [20:29] <Standard8> gcp: afaik no, but...
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# [20:29] <Standard8> gcp: and the weird thing that would indicate not, is that its just on linux 32 bit
# [20:29] <gcp> Standard8: is the gcc and opt flags identical to firefox?
# [20:30] <Standard8> I've not verified thos
# [20:30] <Standard8> e
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# [20:30] <Standard8> but I would expect so for non-pgo builds (if FF are doing pgo there)
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# [20:31] <Standard8> gcp: I can find out the gcc version for the TB ones, but not the FF ones
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# [20:33] <Callek> Standard8: Firefox is using gcc 4.5-0moz3 iirc, I can check with puppet investigation if it helps you
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# [20:34] <Standard8> gcp: looks like we're using 4.1.2
# [20:35] <Callek> Standard8: http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/mozilla/build/unix/mozconfig.linux#1
# [20:35] <Callek> Standard8: also note that |gcc --version| is not what you want
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# [20:35] <Callek> Standard8: check your mozconfig and what is installed in /tools
# [20:35] <Callek> (iirc 4.1.2 won't even compile trunk right now)
# [20:35] <gcp> /usr/bin/ccache /tools/gcc-4.5/bin/g++ -o Classifier.o
# [20:35] <gcp> from the buildlog
# [20:36] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/6b5537115a23 - Philipp von Weitershausen - Bug 725901 - RIL: Data call fixes. r=qDot DONTBUILD because NPOTB
# [20:36] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/88d42cd1d51f - Philipp von Weitershausen - Bug 725137 - RIL: process registration state + GPRS registration state. r=qDot
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# [20:36] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/c91af3511873 - Fernando Jiménez - Bug 724994 - Silence RIL signal strength logcat messages; r=qDot
# [20:36] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/40da5acfe838 - José Antonio Olivera Ortega - Bug 725599 - B2G telephony: speakerEnabled does not work; r=philikon
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# [20:36] <Standard8> Callek: ok, good point, we've got 4.5.1 on there
# [20:36] <Standard8> gcp ^^^
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# [20:37] <glandium> is it me or after an upgrade, firefox shows the addons upgrade dialog, shows the ui, and then restarts?
# [20:39] <kwierso> glandium: eh?
# [20:39] <WG9s> Isn't that intended behaviour?
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# [20:40] <kwierso> upgrading from what to what?
# [20:40] <WG9s> Oh i see shows the UI then restarts.
# [20:40] <gcp> Standard8: hmm, GCC versions are very close, and compilation options too.
# [20:40] <WG9s> that is not intended.
# [20:40] <WG9s> I misread the first time.
# [20:40] <Standard8> gcp: did I mention the linux 32 builders are VMs?
# [20:40] <gcp> I dont see how that should matter.
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# [20:41] <gcp> actually, thunderbird compiles with "-fno-tree-vrp"
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# [20:41] <Standard8> gcp: potentially slow disk i/o, maybe slower running the test. Depends if there's anything with special wrt timings there
# [20:42] <gcp> possible but unlikely. would exepect some orange on ff then as well
# [20:42] <Standard8> yeah, could be more intermittent
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# [20:43] <gcp> the test where it fails also has no time-dependencies
# [20:43] <glandium> kwierso: iirc it happened when i upgraded from 11.0a2 to 11.0b1, and now from 11.0b1 to 12.0a2
# [20:43] <jtcranmer> Standard8: disables value range propagation
# [20:43] <gcp> the reason I'm looking at this is that IIRC GCC miscompiled a part of urlclassifier at some point
# [20:44] <gcp> this is consistent with that is happening here
# [20:44] <gcp> I had a pass on my local machine with 4.5.2 that failed on try
# [20:44] <Callek> gcp: ahh if thats so, I wonder if any of the gcc patches we applied and are running with made it to Standard8's/TB's boxes http://hg.mozilla.org/build/rpm-sources/filelog/375e5b96d2f9/gcc45/centos5-i686/gcc45.spec
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# [20:46] <gcp> Callek: there's a patch for vrp in there :P
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# [20:47] <Callek> gcp: so I noticed ;-)
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# [20:49] <glandium> WG9s: i'll try to find with which version this started before filing a bug
# [20:50] <gcp> Standard8: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=669410#c67
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# [20:53] <@bsmedberg> hrm, /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lstdc++
# [20:54] <@bsmedberg> or pthread, or -lm or -lc
# [20:54] <bhearsum> that sounds, uh, bad
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# [20:55] <Callek> sounds like a drive suddenly got unmounted
# [20:55] <Callek> or fsck'ed while it was mounted
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# [20:55] <WG9s> bsmedberg: like i said if this is 64-bit linux you have to make sure to have all the 32-bit devel packages loaded
# [20:55] <WG9s> if you are trying to do a 32-bit build
# [20:55] <@bsmedberg> I'm not doing 32-bit builds for now at least
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# [20:56] <@bsmedberg> but ah!
# [20:57] <@bsmedberg> -Wl,-rpath-link,/usr/local/lib
# [20:57] <@bsmedberg> wtf
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# [20:58] <WG9s> and then I add the following to my mozconfig to do 32-bit builds (this is under fedora so with other distros your mileage might vary)
# [20:58] <WG9s> export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/usr/lib/pkgconfig
# [20:58] <WG9s> export CC='gcc -m32'
# [20:58] <Standard8> gcp: hmm, I guess there's no way we could do a test without recompiling gcc?
# [20:58] <WG9s> export CXX='c++ -m32'
# [20:58] <WG9s> export CFLAGS='-pipe'+export CXXFLAGS='-pipe'
# [20:58] <WG9s> ac_add_options --host=i686-pc-linux-gnu+ac_add_options --target=i686-pc-linux-gnu+ac_add_options --x-libraries=/usr/lib
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# [20:58] <gcp> Standard8: disable optimization for that part of the code?
# [20:59] <WG9s> Oops some of those should have been on seperate lines whre the + signs are.
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# [21:00] <Standard8> gcp: this would be the url classifier?
# [21:03] <@bsmedberg> ah, the -static is bothering it
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# [21:03] <@bsmedberg> this is making dump_syms... hrm
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# [21:12] <tn> smaug, pong
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# [21:15] <Callek> Standard8: you could get a new gcc precompiled rpm from Moz Releng in theory iirc
# [21:15] <Callek> with those fixes like is in use
# [21:15] * Callek looks at what version he has backed up locally
# [21:15] <@smaug> tn: do you happen to know if something has changed in linux scroll handling lately
# [21:16] <@smaug> I know you changed synth mouse event handling
# [21:16] <@smaug> tn: but scrolling feels really a lot faster than before
# [21:16] <Callek> Standard8: I have gcc45_0moz2-4.5.2-0moz2.i686.rpm and its 64 version
# [21:16] <Callek> Standard8: if that helps you I can scp it to my surf home and chmod it 666 for you
# [21:17] <Callek> (easiest way to transfer it I think)
# [21:17] <@smaug> (and scrolling is by far better than in other browsers on this machine)
# [21:17] <Standard8> Callek: nope, 'cause I don't have the right perms for all that stuff, and I'd prefer to confirm before playing around with machines
# [21:17] <mconley> !seen thunder
# [21:17] <firebot> thunder was last seen 20 weeks, 2 hours, 55 minutes and 53 seconds ago, changing nick to lloyd.
# [21:17] <Callek> Standard8: fair
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# [21:19] <tn> smaug, hmm, stopping the synth mouse moves while scrolling could be it, but no other browser ever did it (we were the only ones). i'm not sure what else
# [21:19] <Callek> Standard8: just to be clear though, that rpm installs to its own unique /tools/ dir, and would be turned on by a mozconfig change
# [21:20] <Callek> Standard8: so its not as invasive as it might seem at first glance
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# [21:23] <sicking> mounir: i think i just made you sad :(
# [21:23] <Ms2ger> sicking++
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# [21:23] <mconley> !seen rags
# [21:23] <firebot> rags was last seen 9 weeks, 1 day, 22 hours, 48 minutes and 8 seconds ago, saying 'telliott: I was going to suggest zombies, but then that's more undead than dead' in #sync.
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# [21:30] <evilpie> did i miss the zombie outbreak?
# [21:30] <jhammel> :shrug: i dunno...i do crave brains...
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# [21:41] <lurking_work> 10.0.1 coming out today ?
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# [21:42] <Callek> lurking_work: yes
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# [21:42] <Callek> lurking_work: patience-young-grasshopper :-)
# [21:43] <lurking_work> thought so... just don't see it yet .... hehe
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# [21:43] <philor> ehsan: profiling branch broke on Wednesday
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# [21:43] <philor> which has made starring it the last couple of days quite easy :)
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# [21:44] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/04b311e4bc94 - Olli Pettay - Bug 725768 - BBP for ObjectHolders, r=mccr8
# [21:44] <firebot> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/b3073c517d21 - Olli Pettay - Bug 725867 - Optimize anon content in BBP, f=mccr8,r=jst
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# [21:48] <biesi> smaug, what does BBP stand for?
# [21:48] <Ms2ger> Black Bit Propagation
# [21:48] <Ms2ger> Where have you been?
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# [21:48] <jhammel> nah, its Big Beautiful Piglet
# [21:49] <@smaug> bah
# [21:49] <@bz> Big Black Pointers
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# [21:50] <biesi> big beautiful pointers?
# [21:50] <@ehsan> philor: crap!
# [21:50] <Ms2ger> ehsan, ... is what we produce
# [21:50] <@ehsan> hehe
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# [21:51] <Ms2ger> Editor in particular!
# [21:51] <Ms2ger> (Daily editor jibe: check)
# [21:51] <@ehsan> :P
# [21:51] <@ehsan> I don't even mind that!
# [21:51] <@khuey> bz: o.O
# [21:51] <edmorley> !seen raccettura
# [21:51] <firebot> raccettura was last seen 5 weeks, 16 hours, 13 minutes and 18 seconds ago, saying 'tan: You're the 2nd person to recognize me on reddit and tell me :-D' in #firefox.
# [21:52] <@bz> khuey: ?
# [21:52] <@ehsan> nice
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# [21:52] <@ehsan> hg repo corruption
# [21:52] <@ehsan> again
# [21:52] <edmorley> disk?
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# [21:53] <@ehsan> no
# [21:53] <nemo> huh. first time a legit page has ever done this for me
# [21:53] <nemo> http://www.iphonedevsdk.com/forum/iphone-sdk-development/54784-icon-dimensions-0-x-0-dont-meet-size-requirements.html
# [21:53] <nemo> (blocked as attack)
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# [21:53] <nemo> weird.
# [21:53] <@ehsan> I have a cronjob which updates the profiling branch
# [21:53] <nemo> maybe some ad on the page
# [21:53] <nemo> at some point in the past...
# [21:53] <@ehsan> it pulls from m-c and merges and pushes to profiling
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# [21:53] <@ehsan> I've seen hg repo corruptions on that setup twice so far
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# [21:56] <bent> ehsan, is that why i have no update today?
# [21:56] <@ehsan> bent: yeah sorry about that
# [21:57] <@ehsan> I don't have a notification system in place
# [21:57] <bent> i'll live, no worries
# [21:57] <Ms2ger> ehsan, did you file http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/editor/libeditor/html/nsHTMLEditor.cpp?mark=4350-4350,4365-4365#4344 ?
# [21:58] <@ehsan> Ms2ger: no
# [21:58] <@ehsan> Ms2ger: that link is not valid any more btw ;)
# [21:58] <Ms2ger> Must have been restored from cache, then
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# [22:03] <@ehsan> alright, the profiling branch should be fixed now
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# [22:11] <eflores> I have a bug where an assertion failure is happening; I want to write a test that just checks for that -- what kind of test do I need?
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# [22:11] <edmorley> philor|away: thank you for marking that M1 crash of mine
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# [22:11] <eflores> I was thinking I could just have a reftest that equals itself, but that's probably stupid...
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# [22:13] <dholbert> eflores, you want to add a crashtest
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# [22:14] <dholbert> eflores, it's the same as a reftest (similar manifest files called "crashtests.list"), except it doesn't do any pixel-comparisons. It's exactly targeted at your situation
# [22:14] <dholbert> eflores, see e.g. http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/layout/generic/crashtests/crashtests.list
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# [22:15] <eflores> Ah, sweet
# [22:15] <eflores> Thanks dholbert
# [22:15] <dholbert> eflores, np
# [22:15] <dholbert> eflores, you can use "reftest-wait" in crashtests, too, if you need to
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# [22:16] <dholbert> (e.g. if you need to be sure some script gets run before we consider the test passed & move on)
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# [22:21] <firebot> Check-in: http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/445e1040bfcf - Olli Pettay - Bug 725446 - BBP for ContentList, f=mccr8,r=jst
# [22:21] <@ehsan> edmorley: I was landing bug 722777 just right now and I saw that it doesn't apply!
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# [22:21] <edmorley> ehsan: :-)
# [22:22] <edmorley> am trying to keep on top of the checkin-neededs list, it had gotten a bit large over the last week or two
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# [22:22] <@ehsan> I just saw that bug because I was CCed on it ;)
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# [22:33] <josh> bsmedberg: Do you have any objection to disabling non-plugin-process unloading of any plugin, even with the unloadASAP pref set? I don't think we ever want to do that, I don't even want it offered as an option.
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# [22:34] <josh> I'd adjust my unload strategy patch to make that true, and the unloadASAP pref would only apply to OOPP.
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# [22:35] * NeilZZZ sighs
# [22:36] <NeilZZZ> MDN's editor is child's play compared to struggling with BrowserID
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# [22:38] <@bsmedberg> josh: yeah, that's fine
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# [22:38] <josh> great, doing it now
# [22:38] <biesi> NeilZZZ, browserid on MDN worked for me after I reloaded MDN after confirming the browserid prompt
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# [22:40] <NeilZZZ> biesi: well a) you have to click twice on MDN just to start logging in b) it opens a popup c) there are far too many steps
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# [22:40] <jhammel> NeilZZZ: you forgot d) there are far too many steps ;)
# [22:40] <biesi> NeilZZZ, I agree
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# [22:40] <NeilZZZ> jhammel: there were more steps, I reduced it to 3 to avoid flooding
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# [22:55] <NeilZZZ> sheppy: how does webkit features relate to chrome/safari in compatibility tables?
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# [22:56] <sheppy> NeilZZZ: Our new compatibility tables have separate columns for Safari and Chrome.
# [22:56] <sheppy> We haven't finished migrating to them yet, but progress is continuing.
# [22:56] <NeilZZZ> sheppy: I know, but all I have is the date that the feature landed in webkit
# [22:57] <sheppy> NeilZZZ: Ah. That I have no idea how to come up with.
# [22:57] <sheppy> We're largely relying on community (plus our friends at Google) to handle that correlation for us.
# [22:57] <sheppy> We often have folks in #devmo from Google that might be able to help, but there aren't any at the moment that I can see.
# [22:58] <sheppy> Well, kathyw is there, but grendel does more of the heavy lifting I think. :)
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# [23:02] <mwu> neat, my tab bar doesn't scroll anymore
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# [23:03] <mwu> hmm 6 day old nightly
# [23:03] <mwu> Timestamp: 2/10/12 4:55:15 PM
# [23:03] <mwu> Error: uncaught exception: [Exception... "Component returned failure code: 0x80040111 (NS_ERROR_NOT_AVAILABLE) [nsIDOMWindow.mozRequestAnimationFrame]" nsresult: "0x80040111 (NS_ERROR_NOT_AVAILABLE)" location: "JS frame :: chrome://global/content/bindings/scrollbox.xml :: scrollAnim_start :: line 283" data: no]
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# [23:06] <jlebar> What C++ class backs <xul::browser>?
# [23:07] <taras> what the heck is autoland?
# [23:07] <@smaug> jlebar: nsXULElement
# [23:07] <@khuey> jlebar: what does that even mean?
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# [23:07] <jhammel> taras: autoland on try from bugzilla, someday m-c maybe
# [23:07] <jlebar> smaug, thanks. khuey, what do you mean what do I mean?
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# [23:08] <derf> jhammel: To be quickly followed by autobackout.
# [23:08] <jhammel> taras: though lsblakk knows more and has a blog post somewhere about it
# [23:08] <jhammel> derf: next we just need to do autowritemybug
# [23:08] <dholbert> taras, https://wiki.mozilla.org/Build:Autoland
# [23:08] <derf> I'm still waiting for autowritemypatch.
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# [23:08] <jhammel> though hopefully not autocopygoogle
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# [23:11] <lsblakk> taras: crashopensource.blogspot.com/2012/02/autolanding-your-patches-to-try-via.html
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# [23:11] <taras> thanks everybody
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# [23:14] <dholbert> lsblakk, how does it verify that the patch author and/or reviewer have try pushing rights?
# [23:15] <dholbert> or is that not required?
# [23:15] <lsblakk> that is required, IT wrote us an LDAP cross-checking tool
# [23:15] <bent> neat
# [23:15] <lsblakk> so we can confirm based on your bugzilla username
# [23:15] <dholbert> lsblakk, hmm, so your bugmail must be the same as your hg.mozilla.org login?
# [23:15] <lsblakk> nope
# [23:16] <dholbert> does ldap already know my bugzilla email address?
# [23:16] <lsblakk> i think it does...either that or magic
# [23:16] <dholbert> heh
# [23:16] <lsblakk> but i think it does cause that lets you be in certain groups?
# [23:17] <dholbert> oh, maybe (like IT requests and other MoCo-confidential bugs) -- makes sense
# [23:17] <biesi> I didn't think those used ldap?
# [23:18] <biesi> but maybe my information is outdated, as often ;)
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# [23:18] <jhammel> well, if they store it in ldap itself you can always do a query ;)
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# [23:19] <jhammel> if not, my bet is on magic
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# [23:19] <kwierso> always bet on magic
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# [23:19] <jhammel> if its good enough for Harry Potter and the GOP, its good enough for me
# [23:21] <@khuey> moco employees can set their bugmail address in the phonebook
# [23:21] <kwierso> khuey's stealing our magic :(
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# [23:22] <jhammel> khuey: is phonebook ldap-stored? i know its ldap-accessed...
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# [23:23] <jhammel> kwierso: khuey will do that....he is the Dementor or Ron Paul of my mixed analogy
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# [23:25] <@khuey> lol
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# [23:59] <aja> is there some kind of bookmarks file cleanup tool ? what a mess
# Session Close: Sat Feb 11 00:00:00 2012

The end :)