/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2009-11-07 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Nov 07 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  11. # [00:25] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8226] New: inline review is goddamn annoying <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Nov/0073.html> ** [Bug 8223] Won't this Doctype trigger Quirks Mode? <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Nov/0072.html>
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  18. # [00:33] <cardona507> here are the minutes from the <video> meeting http://www.w3.org/2009/11/06-video-minutes.html
  19. # [00:33] <pimpbot> Title: HTML WG face to face, Santa Clara - video session -- 06 Nov 2009 (at www.w3.org)
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  21. # [00:34] <annevk> Topic: MathML
  22. # [00:34] <annevk> Patrick Ion: I hope this is a non-issue
  23. # [00:34] <annevk> Patrick: we're grateful for the comments
  24. # [00:35] <annevk> Patrick: not sure there's much that amounts to problems for us
  25. # [00:35] <annevk> Patrick: the CSS color issue is because of backwards compatibility
  26. # [00:36] <annevk> AVK: Isn't the CSS color module a superset?
  27. # [00:36] <annevk> Tantek: I want to know!
  28. # [00:36] <annevk> Patrick: we'll look into it
  29. # [00:36] <annevk> Patrick: we reference Recs and not otherwise
  30. # [00:37] <annevk> Patrick: that's why we don't mention HTML5
  31. # [00:37] <annevk> Tantek: why would you need to mention HTML5?
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  34. # [00:39] <annevk> Patrick: there is some difficulty about embedding HTML in MathML
  35. # [00:39] <annevk> Patrick: it has been a principle to underspecify
  36. # [00:40] <annevk> AVK: I think in this specific case there was a request for better specification because it's not clear how the CSS and Math layout model interacted
  37. # [00:41] <TabAtkins> The answer is "not at all", which is why MathML is profiling a subset that can use CSS Layout.
  38. # [00:41] <annevk> Patrick: there has been a lot of switching between xlink:href and href
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  40. # [00:42] <annevk> Patrick: you can use both if you want; if there are two ways to markup links we have to admit that this is the case
  41. # [00:42] <annevk> Patrick: we are specifying or describing situations we do not really control
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  44. # [00:44] <TabAtkins> http://twitter.com/search?q=%23csspickuplines
  45. # [00:44] <pimpbot> Title: Twitter (at twitter.com)
  46. # [00:45] <annevk> MJS: Shelley and one other person replied to Paul Cotton's request for initial feedback on MathML
  47. # [00:45] <annevk> MJS: earlier today Shelley emailed comments (possibly collected from the list) to the Math WG without review from the HTML WG
  48. # [00:46] <annevk> MJS: you should not assume these comments have consensus with the HTML WG
  49. # [00:47] <annevk> Patrick: you can now send comments by November 11 to www-math
  50. # [00:47] <annevk> Patrick: mention "last call" in the subject line
  51. # [00:47] <annevk> Patrick: similarly for our other drafts
  52. # [00:48] <annevk> AVK: I'm interested in how you ended up with xlink:href and href?
  53. # [00:48] <annevk> Patrick: we tried to cover both faces?
  54. # [00:48] <annevk> AVK: which?
  55. # [00:48] <annevk> s/faces?/faces/
  56. # [00:55] <annevk> [Explanation of how xlink:href in text/html work followed.]
  57. # [00:55] <annevk> [Explanation of how XLink is not ideal followed as well and how Math probably needs to decide between Xlink and using plain attributes rather than keeping both.]
  58. # [00:55] <annevk> Topic: entities
  59. # [00:56] <PIon> http://www.w3.org/2003/entities/2007doc/
  60. # [00:56] <pimpbot> Title: XML Entity definitions for Characters (at www.w3.org)
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  63. # [01:01] <Hixie> html5 uses the 'html5' and 'mathml' sets from http://www.w3.org/2003/entities/2007xml/unicode.xml
  64. # [01:02] <Hixie> and adds http://whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/entities-legacy.inc
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  78. # [01:40] <paulc> log TAG discussion on authoring specs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/html-wg/20091106#l-140
  79. # [01:44] <BryanSullivan> q+
  80. # [01:45] <mjs> HTML5 is actually the first markup language in which I have written a correct document from scratch with no copy/paste
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  82. # [01:46] <paulc> q?
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  84. # [01:46] <annevk> q+ BryanSullivan
  85. # [01:46] * Zakim sees BryanSullivan on the speaker queue
  86. # [01:46] <paulc> rubys: this session may finish early
  87. # [01:46] <cardona507> tabatkins - did you have any slides or urls from your css gradients talk?
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  91. # [01:46] <paulc> rubys: we may get to the closing session early
  92. # [01:46] * MichaelC is this Lachlan's authoring guide? http://dev.w3.org/html5/html-author/
  93. # [01:47] * MikeSmith to MichaelC - yep
  94. # [01:47] * MichaelC thx
  95. # [01:48] <TabAtkins> cardona507: If you have a recent (as of yesterday, 6-11-09) nightly of Firefox, my demo is at www.xanthir.com/etc/gradient.html. Otherwise, no, as the session wasn't recorded. I gave the talk again earlier today in front of a video camera, and we'll be publishing the video near future.
  96. # [01:48] <cardona507> sweet - thanks - please send the video around the public html when you get it
  97. # [01:49] <TabAtkins> It'll show up on twitter and such. I'll ensure that it shows up on public-html too.
  98. # [01:49] <paulc> ack Bryan
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  100. # [01:49] * gsnedder1 resists the temptation to make some comment about that being what TabAtkins was doing with a girl and a video camera
  101. # [01:50] <TabAtkins> gsnedder1: A girl, a camera, and three other dudes. It was hawt.
  102. # [01:51] <cardona507> haha
  103. # [01:51] <BryanSullivan> q-
  104. # [01:51] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  105. # [01:52] <paulc> Wrap up section is starting
  106. # [01:52] <paulc> a) Philipe - licensing
  107. # [01:52] * MichaelC should we call in the other breakout?
  108. # [01:52] <paulc> b) Paul - AC/AB report
  109. # [01:53] <paulc> c) Michael - Accessibility TF
  110. # [01:53] <paulc> d) Meeting schedule
  111. # [01:53] <paulc> e) Beer
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  113. # [01:54] <MikeSmith> action-29?
  114. # [01:54] * trackbot getting information on ACTION-29
  115. # [01:54] <trackbot> ACTION-29 -- Philippe Le H├ęgaret to follow up on the idea of a free-software-compatible license for a note on HTML authoring -- due 2009-11-05 -- OPEN
  116. # [01:54] <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/29
  117. # [01:54] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-29 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
  118. # [01:55] * MichaelC is quite literal, assumed unicorns was a formal session to discuss blue-sky issues :)
  119. # [01:55] * annevk heh
  120. # [01:55] * annevk the 42. didn't give you enoug hint?
  121. # [01:55] * MichaelC oops, no, that went over my head :(
  122. # [01:56] <cardona507> e) +1
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  132. # [02:25] <MikeSmith> beer
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  138. # [02:26] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8224] Mention that it's possible for the Atom section to generate invalid Atom if there's not enough data (e.g. missing authors). <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Nov/0075.html> ** [Bug 8225] Make it clear that the Atom generation section is not the only such algorithm (e.g. hAtom is fine too). <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Nov/0074.html>
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  187. # [07:21] <JonathanJ> rrsagent, make minutes
  188. # [07:21] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-html-wg-minutes.html JonathanJ
  189. # [07:21] <pimpbot> Title: HTML WG face-to-face in Santa Clara -- 05 Nov 2009 (at www.w3.org)
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  212. # [10:42] <pimpbot> planet: How to parse onclick javascript event parameter using MSHTML? <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1692481/how-to-parse-onclick-javascript-event-parameter-using-mshtml>
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  251. # [20:53] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8230] New: It might be good with a comment in script's Content attributes section mentioning onload/onerror being defined in Global attributes (I've had the question come up several times about script.onload missing from html5). <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Nov/0077.html> ** [Bug 8228] New: The formatting of the example is very screwed up. Needs to be reformatted to be readable. <http://lists.w3.org/Ar
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  260. # [22:53] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8234] New: Can you clearify what you mean with the author link type, If i writes a paper, should I include an author link to my homepage then? <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Nov/0080.html> ** [Bug 8233] New: [gsnedders] "datagrid" parsing rules should be removed now the element is gone. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Nov/0079.html> ** [Bug 8232] New: [gs] End tag "body
  261. # [22:54] <gsnedder1> Yeah, get in there pimpbot, pimp ma bugs!
  262. # [22:57] * jgraham wonders why statements on behalf of the HTMLWG are needed at all
  263. # [22:58] <gsnedder1> Because most standards groups are 90% politics?
  264. # [22:58] * Joins: gavin (gavin@99.226.207.11)
  265. # [22:59] <jgraham> That isn't a sufficient axiom to derive the conclusion that group statements are needed
  266. # [23:00] <jgraham> What I would have liked to see in this case was:
  267. # [23:01] <jgraham> a) the HTMLWG were alerted (as part of a more general announcement) that the MathML people were looking for feedback on their spec
  268. # [23:01] <gsnedder1> The HTML WG chairs were on the chairs mailing list, who then forwarded the message to the entire group.
  269. # [23:01] <jgraham> b) People provided feedback CCing in the HTMLWG in cases where the issue had some overlap
  270. # [23:02] <jgraham> c) Followup and discussion from all concerned parties via email
  271. # [23:02] <gsnedder1> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2009JulSep/0072.html is where the request for review was
  272. # [23:04] <jgraham> Yeah so the HTMLWG chairs should replay and say that due to the structure of our group we cannot provide a single feedback statement or something
  273. # [23:04] <jgraham> s/single feedback statement/group position/
  274. # [23:05] <jgraham> (Which is better anyway because interactive discussion facilitates understanding on both sides making for a more useful review.)
  275. # [23:07] <jgraham> (sending a huge document out and expecting a single coherent of comments from some other group that identifies all the issues they would have if they fully understood everything sounds like a losing proposition)
  276. # [23:07] <gsnedder1> Getting consensus on anything from a huge groups seems virtually impossible
  277. # [23:09] <jgraham> It is impossible except for the meaning of consensus that is "we ok a vote and this option won"
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  279. # [23:09] <jgraham> Which is a bit like saying that Americans have consensus that the Democrats are the best political party
  280. # [23:09] <jgraham> s/ok/took/
  281. # [23:23] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8235] New: Given that Gecko and Webkit don't support them in XML, I think that named properties in HTMLDocument objects should be restricted to HTML documents, given that this feature is only included for backward compatibility and is horribly designed. <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Nov/0081.html>
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  285. # [23:53] <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 8236] New: 1) why a query is stored in the `search' attribute and a URL fragment is stored in the `fragment' attribute? The naming is a bit confusing. 2) Why the is no restrictions for the `port' attribute: an integer in a range [0-65535]; 3) The getter condition fo <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2009Nov/0082.html>
  286. # Session Close: Sun Nov 08 00:00:00 2009

The end :)