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- # Session Start: Fri Feb 12 00:00:00 2010
- # Session Ident: #microformats
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- # [06:43] <boblet> for dtend implied date, is this part of hCalendar now? the “could” language makes me wonder if it’s a proposal…
- # [06:43] <boblet> http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern#hCalendar_dtend_implied_date
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- # [07:38] <@tantek> boblet - yes it's been incorporated into hCalendar
- # [07:39] * @tantek takes a look at vcp
- # [07:39] <@tantek> oh the *implied* date
- # [07:40] <@tantek> that's part of vcp - thus if an implementation implements hCalendar + vcp, they are expected to support that
- # [07:40] <@tantek> originally I misread what you said and was talking about the dtend-inclusive issue resolution, which has been incorporated into hCalendar
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- # [08:11] <boblet> tantek: aah, that makes sense. thanks
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- # [08:36] <boblet> strange. it seems Operator supports value-class pattern and implied dtend, but for <span class="dtend">21:00</span> I get “dtend=2010-02-1721”
- # [08:39] <boblet> full code: <span class="dtstart"><abbr class="value" title="2010-02-17">2010年02月17日</abbr> <span class="value">19:00</span></span>時から<span class="dtend">21:00</span>時まで
- # [08:55] <@tantek> boblet, try putting the 21:00 inside a <span class="value">
- # [08:55] <@tantek> e.g.
- # [08:55] <@tantek> <span class="dtend"><span class="value">21:00</span></span>
- # [08:57] <boblet> yep, that fixes it, but the vcp wiki page mentions this
- # [08:57] <boblet> I see on closer reading it’s a “hCalendar processors could…”
- # [08:58] <boblet> so I guess Operator hasn’t implemented that part
- # [08:58] <@tantek> boblet, likely because the test case checks the code as I wrote it
- # [08:58] <boblet> heh, there’s always another test case to write :)
- # [08:59] <@tantek> because <span class="dtend"><span class="value">21:00</span></span> uses the vcp explicitly
- # [08:59] <boblet> tantek: I don’t envy you in that job
- # [08:59] <boblet> cool—I’ll use the verbose way
- # [08:59] <@tantek> whereas <span class="dtend">21:00</span> does not use vcp, and will have to await hCalendar 1.1
- # [09:00] <@tantek> supporting just <span class="dtend"><span class="value">21:00</span></span> to begin with was the more conservative path to take
- # [09:00] <boblet> so hCalendar + vpc is kind of an addition to hCalendar 1.0?
- # [09:00] <@tantek> well there are two additions
- # [09:01] <boblet> (I assumed a newer version of the spec)
- # [09:01] <@tantek> vcp
- # [09:01] <@tantek> and the implied dtend date (without requiring vcp)
- # [09:02] <boblet> actually given how static uF were for a looong time, I’m pleasantly surprised by the nice changes I’m finding (vpc, inclusive dtend etc)
- # [09:03] <boblet> will hCalendar 1.1 be coming soon? or is it waiting on HTML5?
- # [09:03] <@tantek> it's not waiting on HTML5
- # [09:05] <@tantek> it's mostly the editor (me in this case) going through all the resolved issues and brainstorming bits and incorporating them into a new draft
- # [09:06] <boblet> so no <time datetime=""> huh
- # [09:08] <boblet> how ill-advised would it be to write something like:
- # [09:08] <boblet> <time class="dtstart" datetime="2010-02-17T19:00:00+0900"><abbr class="value" title="2010-02-17">2010年2月17日</abbr>、<abbr class="value" title="19:00:00+0900">19時</abbr></time>
- # [09:09] <boblet> Operator parses this correctly, ignoring datetime but picking up values
- # [09:09] <boblet> but I wonder if it’d be bad once <time> is officially supported
- # [09:14] <@tantek> it's fine for FF since it parses the <time> element
- # [09:14] <@tantek> but not for all browsers
- # [09:14] <@tantek> e.g. not sure if Safari parses the <time> element
- # [09:14] <@tantek> and certainly not sure if hCalendar consuming tools parse the <time> element
- # [09:14] <@tantek> for example, H2VX does not, because it uses Tidy, and Tidy strips out the <time> element
- # [09:15] <@tantek> the safer, more "bulletproof" method would be to put a <span class="dtstart"> immediately inside the <time> element.
- # [09:25] <boblet> tantek: thanks for giving me some things to think about. I’m gonna experiment a little
- # [09:26] <@tantek> I'm writing up the detail re dtend implied into hCalendar brainstorming so it doesn't get lost.
- # [09:27] <boblet> one final q—the conversation that led to XFN was at SxSW 2003, right? it was first mentioned on your blog Nov 2003
- # [09:28] <@tantek> yes
- # [09:28] <@tantek> more on that here
- # [09:28] <boblet> (doing a uF and Microdata talk, and wanting to include a little history overview)
- # [09:28] <@tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/history
- # [09:29] <boblet> doh—how did I miss that
- # [09:32] <@tantek> also, captured now in hCalendar brainstorming
- # [09:32] <@tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-brainstorming#implied_dtend
- # [09:33] <boblet> nice :)
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- # [09:37] <@tantek> hello teleject
- # [09:38] <teleject> Hey
- # [09:38] <@tantek> greetings teleject
- # [09:38] <teleject> Hi, Tantek!
- # [09:39] <teleject> I was wondering if you could help me with a question on microformats.
- # [09:39] <teleject> I want to add business hours to an hcard.
- # [09:39] <teleject> And would like to know what would be a recommended direction for coding it.
- # [09:39] <teleject> business hours would include M-F
- # [09:39] <teleject> as well as weekends
- # [09:39] <teleject> and maybe include holidays
- # [09:39] <@tantek> this is a very good question
- # [09:40] <@tantek> obviously the business itself should be marked up as an hCard
- # [09:40] <teleject> (Holidays might be easier to add since they are specific.)
- # [09:40] <teleject> Right.
- # [09:40] <@tantek> so you *could* mark up the business hours as hCalendar events
- # [09:40] <@tantek> it's the best we have at the moment
- # [09:40] <teleject> Ah
- # [09:40] <teleject> I'm going to throw this potential grenade out there
- # [09:40] <@tantek> as in the "event" would be "open for business" or "open" or "serving customers" etc.
- # [09:41] <@tantek> and the hours would simply be a repeating event
- # [09:41] <teleject> Would the HTML5 element be something to look into?
- # [09:41] <@tantek> and the location would be the hCard
- # [09:41] <@tantek> looks like your HTML got trimmed
- # [09:41] <@tantek> I saw "Would the HTML5 element"
- # [09:41] <@tantek> try using [] instead
- # [09:41] <teleject> HTML5 time element
- # [09:41] <@tantek> e.g. [time]
- # [09:41] <@tantek> heh
- # [09:41] <@tantek> yes
- # [09:42] <@tantek> we were just discussing that earlier
- # [09:42] <teleject> really?
- # [09:42] <@tantek> the challenge is that today's browser, user agents, search engines don't support [time] very well
- # [09:42] <teleject> Right.
- # [09:42] <@tantek> yes - here are the handy logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/microformats/20100212
- # [09:43] <@tantek> teleject, check out the log starting here: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/microformats/20100212#l-73
- # [09:44] <teleject> I will....
- # [09:44] <@tantek> cool
- # [09:44] <@tantek> off to bed for me
- # [09:44] <teleject> I have a general question
- # [09:45] <teleject> okay...
- # [09:45] <teleject> I will look this over
- # [09:45] <teleject> if anything, I will probably go with mixing microformats
- # [09:45] <teleject> Have a good night!
- # [09:45] <@tantek> yes - compound microformats work well!
- # [09:46] <teleject> thanks for your time as always!
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- # [09:50] <boblet> I’m off too. Thanks again for your help Tantek. I’ll ping you with the preso next week (although it’ll be in Japanese :/)
- # [09:50] <boblet> l8r
- # [09:50] <@tantek> boblet - a Japanese preso on microformats sounds cool!
- # [09:51] <@tantek> be sure to add it to http://microformats.org/wiki/presentations
- # [09:51] <@tantek> and list your talk on the events page too: http://microformats.org/wiki/events
- # [09:51] <boblet> uF is fine, I’ve used them enough. It’s the Microdata part that worries me
- # [09:51] <boblet> well, that and the Japanese part :D
- # [09:52] <boblet> will add links to the event, & slides when I have some
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- # [17:41] <mwunsch> Dates and Times are hard :-\
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The end :)