/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-09-13 / end

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  44. # [01:17] <Hixie> heh, i hadn't thought about the referer for the actual script of the worker
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  54. # [01:36] <deane> Hixie: Have you been involved with the mime-type registration(s) or has the w3c taken care of that area?
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  58. # [01:45] <deane> Hixie: It's just that a long time ago you were having a conversation with someone about the syntax for XHTML served as text/html not being XHTML but being HTML (and I agree with you on that btw). This particular person didn't agree with you and you said something like, "don't worry it will all become clear when we update the mime-type registrations." It just made me think that you were going...
  59. # [01:45] <deane> ...to do something at this update time and I just wondered if you had done it? Does that make sense? :)
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  114. # [04:03] <othermaciej> Hixie: do you know offhand which Web Apps WG specs were factored out of WHATWG's HTML spec?
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  117. # [04:13] <Hixie> othermaciej: should be a list of them in the whatwg faq, but i can never recall the exact list
  118. # [04:14] <othermaciej> Hixie: is your "should be" meant to say "is" or "ought to be but is not"
  119. # [04:14] <othermaciej> or that you are uncertain?
  120. # [04:14] <othermaciej> ah, I found the list
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  123. # [04:20] <Hixie> othermaciej: ought to, not sure if it's up to date
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  190. # [08:20] <annevk> some stuff migrated back recently
  191. # [08:22] <othermaciej> what stuff?
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  241. # [08:55] <annevk> othermaciej: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/
  242. # [08:57] <othermaciej> neat to see those things, I was specifically wondering about factored out pieces of the WHATWG's "HTML Living Standard" spec, and it seems like the things on that page are separate items
  243. # [08:57] <othermaciej> or are they intended to be folded into HTML LS?
  244. # [08:58] <annevk> ah no
  245. # [08:58] <annevk> it's just that XHR once was split out and moved to the W3C and now it's back
  246. # [08:59] <annevk> but yeah, not in the same place
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  248. # [08:59] <othermaciej> was XHR once one of the big monolithic thing formerly known as Web Apps 1.0?
  249. # [08:59] <annevk> yeah
  250. # [09:00] <othermaciej> I'd forgotten that
  251. # [09:00] <othermaciej> do you remember when it got split?
  252. # [09:00] <annevk> 2006
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  254. # [09:00] <othermaciej> thanks
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  291. # [10:01] * smaug____ wonders which ancient bugzilla version w3 uses
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  294. # [10:04] <jgraham> Bugzilla 3.6.2
  295. # [10:05] <annevk> why are Safari's password dialogs synchronous?
  296. # [10:05] <annevk> so annoying
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  298. # [10:05] <jgraham> You mean modal?
  299. # [10:06] <annevk> I suppose
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  304. # [10:09] <zcorpan> deane: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/iana.html#text/html
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  310. # [10:16] <[tm]> if John Daggett comes back around, please ask him to re-ping me
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  314. # [10:16] <[tm]> I'm in Budapest and don't have IRC access from my PC
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  323. # [10:30] <zcorpan> Hixie: the quirks mode spec is part of WHATCG. should it be listed under specs/ as well?
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  326. # [10:38] <annevk> DOM Parsing should maybe be listed too
  327. # [10:39] <annevk> zcorpan: you want to put it on github and get quirks.spec.whatwg.org ?
  328. # [10:39] <zcorpan> Hixie: so we don't want to support dropping directories at all because it's a can of worms of security problems and various complexities
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  330. # [10:40] <zcorpan> annevk: maybe, yeah. what's the procedure assuming i want to keep the CLA in sync?
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  333. # [10:41] <annevk> dunno, I guess then you'd have to push to both
  334. # [10:42] <zcorpan> do you only maintain the *.spec.whatwg.org specs now?
  335. # [10:42] <annevk> yup
  336. # [10:42] <zcorpan> ok
  337. # [10:43] <annevk> I can't join the W3C as I don't agree with the Agreement
  338. # [10:43] <annevk> but I still like editing
  339. # [10:43] <zcorpan> right
  340. # [10:43] <zcorpan> you should have a license for your specs such that forking is allowed but only for a fee going straight to your pocket :-)
  341. # [10:44] <odinho> If the forking entity is a big standards organization that starts with W and ends with 3C.
  342. # [10:44] <annevk> I was actually thinking of something like that, to get some money, but I didn't really like that model
  343. # [10:45] <annevk> I'll stick to Public Domain and find some other source of income in due course
  344. # [10:45] <zcorpan> so what's your business plan?
  345. # [10:45] <zcorpan> ok
  346. # [10:45] <zcorpan> flipping burgers?
  347. # [10:45] <annevk> vacation :)
  348. # [10:45] <SimonSapin> annevk: what part of the Agreement don’t you agree with?
  349. # [10:46] <annevk> the part that basically gives the W3C exclusive right to my creative work
  350. # [10:46] <smaug____> oh, hmm, need to get AryehGregor and Ms2ger (where is he btw) actively merge Anne's whatwg DOM to W3 DOM
  351. # [10:46] <annevk> smaug____: vacation
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  355. # [10:48] <smaug____> oh, vacation
  356. # [10:48] <smaug____> odd
  357. # [10:49] <smaug____> that is at least 2nd time this year
  358. # [10:49] <smaug____> he is getting old
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  360. # [10:51] <smaug____> annevk: so do you have a list of non-w3c specs you're editing now?
  361. # [10:51] <annevk> smaug____: whatwg.org/specs
  362. # [10:53] <smaug____> annevk: have you discussed with Art or perhaps AryehGregor/Ms2ger how to coordinate spec editing
  363. # [10:53] <annevk> just Ms2ger
  364. # [10:53] <smaug____> and what did he say?
  365. # [10:53] <annevk> talked with Art too
  366. # [10:53] <annevk> smaug____: nothing much
  367. # [10:54] * smaug____ would like to just know which spec to follow
  368. # [10:54] <annevk> smaug____: this setup works for him too
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  382. # [11:15] <jgraham> So, does anyone know what the rules are for sharing resources in a document?
  383. # [11:15] <jgraham> e.g. if I have <img src=a><img src=a><img src=a> it seems like a should be loaded only once
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  385. # [11:16] <jgraham> but <script src=a></script><script src=a></script><script src=a></script> might be 3 loads?
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  389. # [11:19] <annevk> they can all be shared
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  392. # [11:22] <annevk> jgraham: fetch describes those "rules" fwiw
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  397. # [11:27] <jgraham> annevk: Apparently (and I quote) "we know that scripts aren't shared"
  398. # [11:28] <jgraham> I haven't done the experiment, but if I trust bratell it seems like the rules are more complicated than "share everything"
  399. # [11:28] <annevk> jgraham: you mean they always force a new HTTP request somehow?
  400. # [11:28] <jgraham> Well I don't know about "always"
  401. # [11:28] <jgraham> But at least in some circumstances, yes
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  403. # [11:30] <jgraham> (speculative theories included "cache until the load event", "never cache scripts", "only cache images" and "only cache resources that are referenced by an element currently in the document")
  404. # [11:30] <jgraham> But since this is observable with e.g. cookies (not to mention race conditions), it is a compat issue
  405. # [11:32] <annevk> well of course
  406. # [11:33] <annevk> sounds like fetch needs another flag
  407. # [11:33] <annevk> unless scripts is already special cased
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  424. # [12:05] <annevk> Hixie: I think I fixed the Referer stuff now, review would be appreciated
  425. # [12:05] <annevk> sicking: ^^
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  456. # [13:06] <smaug____> hmm, when did workers lose close event
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  459. # [13:11] <zcorpan> close event?
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  468. # [13:16] <zcorpan> sometime between http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-workers-20090423/ and http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-workers-20091029/
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  471. # [13:21] <zcorpan> smaug____: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2009May/0406.html
  472. # [13:21] <smaug____> I wonder how many implementations still have it
  473. # [13:21] <smaug____> at least one
  474. # [13:22] * smaug____ hasn't really followed all the worker discussions
  475. # [13:22] <smaug____> at least not at that time
  476. # [13:22] <smaug____> zcorpan: thanks!
  477. # [13:23] <zcorpan> http://html5.org/r/3143
  478. # [13:23] <zcorpan> opera doesn't have it
  479. # [13:23] <zcorpan> i think it was removed before we started implementing
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  482. # [13:25] <zcorpan> what's the status for shared workers in gecko?
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  486. # [13:35] <smaug____> zcorpan: I guess someone is starting to implement them
  487. # [13:37] <zcorpan> ok
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  539. # [14:07] <cheron> Why is there no possibility to communicate between all open tabs of my domain in HTML5?
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  542. # [14:07] <annevk> you can via localStorage I think
  543. # [14:09] <cheron> annevk: yes, badoo.com does it like this, but there are no efforts to provide a seperate API for that?
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  545. # [14:09] <annevk> come to think of it, I guess SharedWorker allows for it too
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  547. # [14:10] <annevk> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=14689#c27 spam?
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  550. # [14:12] <cheron> so there is no need for an explicit api?
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  553. # [14:14] <darobin> I have a dim memory of using postMessage for that, but I'm not sure it ever became true
  554. # [14:14] <annevk> cheron: depends on whether there are a) use cases and b) nothing to address a
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  556. # [14:15] <darobin> I recall one of the use cases being on YouTube having only the tab with page visibility play the music, and automatically tell the others to mute
  557. # [14:20] <annevk> zcorpan: http://xhr.spec.whatwg.org/#same-origin-request-steps and scroll up a notch; that makes data URLs work the way you want right?
  558. # [14:21] <annevk> zcorpan: do you remember if there was a thread or bug report for that?
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  560. # [14:21] <annevk> darobin: you can do that via sharedWorkers and localStorage
  561. # [14:21] <annevk> (I think)
  562. # [14:22] <darobin> annevk: yeah, as far as I know that's how most people do it — it's not something I've had a reason to try so far
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  616. # [14:46] <annevk> hsivonen: http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Talk:Main_Page third box might be for you?
  617. # [14:46] <zcorpan> annevk: how does that deal with redirects to not-same-origin?
  618. # [14:47] <annevk> zcorpan: this is before redirects
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  620. # [14:48] <annevk> zcorpan: I attempted to support it the same way as is done for workers
  621. # [14:48] <annevk> zcorpan: by checking the moment you supply the URL, rather than checking throughout the request
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  623. # [14:49] <annevk> (well not actually when you supply the URL, but close to it)
  624. # [14:49] <zcorpan> workers don't support cross-origin at all, right?
  625. # [14:49] <annevk> right
  626. # [14:49] <annevk> but data URLs go together with the initial same origin check
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  628. # [14:50] <annevk> so if it's same-origin and then a redirect to a data URL, it will fail
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  630. # [14:50] <zcorpan> <img> and <track> support first requesting a same-origin url and then redirecting to a not-same-origin url and have it switch to the cross-origin branch
  631. # [14:51] <zcorpan> hmm, i haven't thought much about redirects to data:
  632. # [14:51] <annevk> well sure, XHR does too
  633. # [14:51] <annevk> but that has nothing to do with data URL support
  634. # [14:51] <annevk> are you not commenting on the data URL part?
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  640. # [14:54] <zcorpan> right, sorry, i was commenting about non-data-URL same-origin redirecting to not-same-origin
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  645. # [14:56] <zcorpan> does "and the rules listed at the end of this section." take care of that?
  646. # [14:56] <annevk> http://xhr.spec.whatwg.org/#same-origin-request-event-rules does
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  648. # [14:57] <annevk> just updated to take 308 into account
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  651. # [14:58] <zcorpan> ah, ok
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  654. # [14:59] <zcorpan> then it's good, assuming it doesn't have the same bugs i reported on "potentially cors-enabled fetch" in html :-)
  655. # [15:00] <annevk> would have to read those bugs to be sure
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  657. # [15:01] <annevk> but if this still has major holes, I'd worry about user security
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  659. # [15:01] <zcorpan> what do browsers do when redirecting to data: ?
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  661. # [15:02] <annevk> I don't think all browsers support data: to begin with
  662. # [15:02] <annevk> you know what's an interesting edge case
  663. # [15:02] <annevk> a redirect to a blob URL
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  674. # [15:05] <zcorpan> yeah. i hope that shouldn't work :-)
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  683. # [15:08] <annevk> I think it should given the current definitions
  684. # [15:09] <annevk> unless maybe its oneTimeOnly or whatever it's called flag is set
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  689. # [15:11] <darobin> there's no reason a redirect to a blob uri shouldn't work
  690. # [15:11] <darobin> though how useful exactly that's another question :)
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  721. # [15:41] <annevk> anyone familiar with the domain-related code of URLs?
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  724. # [15:41] <annevk> in particular what I'm wondering about is how much happens during parsing
  725. # [15:41] <annevk> and when (and if) invalid characters turn the URL invalid
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  740. # [16:00] <annevk> TIL domain names use NFKC
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  742. # [16:02] <jgraham> I hope you found the heritic and pushed them off a bridge
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  745. # [16:04] <annevk> good memory!
  746. # [16:04] <annevk> http://code.google.com/p/plainrss/source/browse/trunk/Atom.NET/tests/feeds/pilgrim.xml
  747. # [16:05] <annevk> I wonder if he was looking at domain names too at the time
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  750. # [16:07] <annevk> but I guess I should just say "this is how you find the host name, now apply ToASCII to it"
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  758. # [16:12] <annevk> implementing IDNA ToASCII in JavaScript might be a bridge too far
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  810. # [16:56] <annevk> setting .protocol is highly illogical
  811. # [16:56] <annevk> e.g. you have http://test/
  812. # [16:57] <annevk> now you set protocol to https
  813. # [16:57] <annevk> my URL library makes that https://test:80/
  814. # [16:57] <annevk> most browsers have https://test/
  815. # [16:57] <annevk> completely ignoring that they now also changed the port
  816. # [16:58] <jgraham> But I would totally expect the browser behaviour to work and yours to break
  817. # [16:58] <annevk> or if you change away from https the // is kept
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  819. # [16:58] <annevk> but if you change from data to https, the // is added
  820. # [16:59] <jgraham> I mean if you have a specified port then it should be constant, but if you are using the default it should be the default on the new scheme too, I guess
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  822. # [17:02] <annevk> it seems Chrome just sets port to the empty string if you give it the default port
  823. # [17:03] <annevk> that certainly explains the serialization
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  827. # [17:04] <annevk> Gecko does the same
  828. # [17:04] <annevk> HTML of course does not define this
  829. # [17:04] <annevk> well "of course"
  830. # [17:04] <annevk> sorry Hixie but the URL decomposition attributes are poorly done
  831. # [17:05] <smaug____> Hmm, webidl parser claims that void observe(Node target, MutationObserverInit options); isn't right
  832. # [17:06] <smaug____> that the latter parameter should be optional
  833. # [17:07] <annevk> you don't have to mark it optional for it to be optional I think
  834. # [17:07] <annevk> heycam|away: ?
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  841. # [17:12] <Hixie> zcorpan: happy to add anything you want to the specs list
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  846. # [17:14] <Hixie> jgraham: <img> is especially magical regarding duplicate resource loads; beyond that there's just HTTP caching and coalescing of multiple simultaneous requests. If there's a compat reason not to coalesce, file a bug.
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  848. # [17:14] <Hixie> annevk: link to xhr/cors updates?
  849. # [17:15] <jgraham> Hixie: "especially magical" doesn't sound terribly well defined. Nor does "coalescing of multiple simultaneous requests", really
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  852. # [17:16] <Hixie> annevk: url decomposition is a bit of a mess, but is it normatively ok?
  853. # [17:16] <annevk> Hixie: https://github.com/whatwg/xhr/commit/69f790f185aaf611a138742362dda55c1a3f7da7 and https://github.com/whatwg/fetch/commit/8d8fbd9e36b725e11afd679c9c0d8fe8ffced8bd
  854. # [17:16] <Hixie> jgraham: they're both quite well defined
  855. # [17:16] <Hixie> jgraham: insofar as they can be. <img> in particular.
  856. # [17:16] <annevk> Hixie: no, e.g. setting .port to 80 for "http://test/" should make it the empty string
  857. # [17:17] <Hixie> annevk: file bugs
  858. # [17:17] <jgraham> Hixie: In HTML?
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  860. # [17:18] <annevk> Hixie: my plan is to obsolete you in the next few months
  861. # [17:18] <Hixie> jgraham: yes
  862. # [17:18] <Hixie> annevk: that wfm
  863. # [17:18] <annevk> Hixie: maybe that's optimistic, but in due course
  864. # [17:19] <jgraham> Hixie: Interesting
  865. # [17:19] <Hixie> annevk: xhr doesn't look like it has a <dfn> for XMLHttpRequest referrer source in that diff
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  868. # [17:20] <Hixie> annevk: otherwise seems ok, i'll have to update my cors calls
  869. # [17:20] <annevk> Hixie: ah sorry, https://github.com/whatwg/xhr/commit/91670112d639e3f5f1899efd188d9e0425963036
  870. # [17:20] <annevk> made two changes to XHR
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  872. # [17:21] <Hixie> lgtm
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  874. # [17:24] <Hixie> ok updated html
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  880. # [17:31] <annevk> Hixie: at some point you should prolly update the reference section to point to xhr.spec.whatwg.org etc.
  881. # [17:31] <Hixie> file a bug
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  884. # [17:33] <annevk> fair enough
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  887. # [17:42] <Hixie> darobin: while merging the last few checkins you've made, i've ended up using different prose (for different reasons each time; i tried to document them in detail in the checkin comments). Is this something silvia will end up tracking automatically or should I be bringing this up to someone's attention or is it something where we don't care?
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  889. # [17:43] <darobin> Hixie: I think that ideally the prose should be the same unless there's an overwhelming reason not to do so
  890. # [17:44] <darobin> normally I think Silvia will track it (or whoever looks at deltas later), but pointers to the differences are appreciated (especially if they can avoid further difference in future)
  891. # [17:44] <Hixie> k
  892. # [17:46] <Hixie> darobin: r7344, r7337, r7336, and r7334 are the main ones that map to things you've changed recently, i think
  893. # [17:46] <Hixie> darobin: (i've been trying to make sure i fix the bugs you fix around the same time)
  894. # [17:50] <darobin> Hixie: heh, for r7344 you have the exact text I had before I decided I preferred reordering the list differently :)
  895. # [17:51] <Hixie> heh
  896. # [17:51] <Hixie> your current text reads like getting and setting always throws, and methods throw when they don't apply
  897. # [17:51] <Hixie> (and starts with "On" while the next paragraph uses "For", which reads weird)
  898. # [17:52] <darobin> we don't parse commas in the same way :)
  899. # [17:52] <darobin> but noted
  900. # [17:52] <Hixie> the problem isn't whether you or i parse commas in the same way, it's how will a hostile reader read it :-)
  901. # [17:53] <Hixie> that's why the paragraph was being rewritten in the first place, after all :-)
  902. # [17:53] <darobin> sure, it just looks like my hostile reader came from Oxford
  903. # [17:53] <darobin> that would explain the smell of tweed on my right shoulder
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  905. # [17:54] <darobin> thanks for the heads up, I won't copy those change directly but will rather cherry pick them downstream
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  907. # [17:55] <Hixie> (oh, also r7331)
  908. # [17:55] <Hixie> k
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  910. # [17:59] <darobin> Hixie: oh yeah, I need to return to that oen
  911. # [17:59] <darobin> it raises a red flag for me that the new supposedly better constructor would require a helper function in simple spec example code
  912. # [18:00] <darobin> which is why I assumed the original example must have been wrong :)
  913. # [18:00] <Hixie> there's a reason i had originally designed it the way i had...
  914. # [18:00] <Hixie> :-P
  915. # [18:00] <darobin> heh
  916. # [18:01] <Hixie> depends what the most common use case is going to be: adding subtitles, or adding metadata
  917. # [18:01] <darobin> I can't disagree that having too many positional parameters is painful though
  918. # [18:01] <darobin> this strikes me as a case for a dictionary...
  919. # [18:02] <darobin> I'll scare up a proposal in the bug
  920. # [18:02] <darobin> (which was REOP)
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  950. # [18:16] <Hixie> darobin: i dunno that a dictionary makes much sense here. all the values are mutable now, and if the common case is subtitles, you'll rarely need to change them anyway.
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  956. # [18:18] <Hixie> darobin: (fwiw, i usually try to have the examples in the spec show both the easy ways to use the APIs and the more esoteric ways, so making the API support the examples in the spec specifically is probably not a winning strategy :-) )
  957. # [18:18] <darobin> yeah, I was just wondering whether the various uses would justify a dictionary, versus changing the example to use subtitles
  958. # [18:18] <Hixie> we can certainly add more examples
  959. # [18:18] <Hixie> but that's a different issue entirely
  960. # [18:19] <darobin> yeah, I'm definitely not trying to design against the example, but I think it makes sense to exemplify the common case
  961. # [18:19] <darobin> I know that's the first thing I look at when coding
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  963. # [18:22] <annevk> heh fun
  964. # [18:22] <annevk> Gecko's URL thing is quite broken
  965. # [18:22] <annevk> if you set hostname to "x#"
  966. # [18:22] <annevk> well host
  967. # [18:22] <annevk> you get http://x/#/
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  969. # [18:23] <annevk> or if you set it to "\n" it puts part of the path as the host
  970. # [18:23] <odinho_> Heh, good thing people don't do that then :]
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  973. # [18:24] <Hixie> i love how the url parsing stuff is so complicated that each time someone tries to spec it, they learn more quirks than the previous person
  974. # [18:24] <Hixie> and then the next person comes along, sees all the quirks so far, tests all of those again, then tests a few more things, finds more quirks, and lather rinse repeat
  975. # [18:25] <annevk> for something fundamental to the platform, it's quite complicated
  976. # [18:26] <annevk> my library is now 350 lines (also handles the decomposition attributes)
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  978. # [18:26] <annevk> once it's a bit more polished I'll put it online for review and then turn it into a proper spec
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  985. # [18:28] <odinho> annevk: With a small eye towards some potential simplification I hope? :P
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  990. # [18:33] <annevk> single-pass parsing was my goal
  991. # [18:33] <annevk> some stuff is simplified too I think
  992. # [18:34] <annevk> because they're no longer constrained by silly syntax constructs from the IETF
  993. # [18:34] <annevk> hmm
  994. # [18:34] <annevk> just realized that apart from the IDNA ToASCII thing, there's also figuring out whether it's a host or IP address
  995. # [18:35] <annevk> browsers do weird things with normalizing IP addresses too I noticed
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  1013. # [18:54] <tantek> good morning #whatwg. perhaps a bit of a reach, but any others here in Portland this weekend for XOXO festival?
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  1033. # [19:16] <annevk> oh heh
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  1035. # [19:17] <annevk> IP address syntax notation has a versioning strategy
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  1037. # [19:17] <annevk> hopefully that's never going to be used
  1038. # [19:18] <zcorpan> annevk: what? for ipv7?
  1039. # [19:19] <annevk> read and weep http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-3.2.2
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  1042. # [19:20] <Hixie> wow, that's hard core
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  1058. # [19:29] <zcorpan> annevk: do browsers support the versioning syntax?
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  1066. # [19:30] <zcorpan> oh i see they aren't expected to
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  1068. # [19:32] <zcorpan> well then it doesn't need to be specced, it can wait until ipv7 comes along and see if it needs a flag
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  1070. # [19:34] <zcorpan> Hixie: ok. can you add it? :-) url is http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/quirks-mode/raw-file/tip/Overview.html
  1071. # [19:36] <Hixie> i'm running out the door, drop me a mail?
  1072. # [19:36] <Hixie> sorry
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  1074. # [19:36] <zcorpan> sure
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  1098. # [20:07] <Famic> hi
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  1116. # [20:25] <zcorpan> Famic: hi
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  1151. # [21:17] <Hixie> sicking: we think we fixed your referrer issue
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  1153. # [21:18] <Hixie> sicking: re dnd of directories, opera (zcorpan, i think) says they don't want to support directories at all. you said mozilla does want to do directories, right? in addition to handling thousands of files in one directory?
  1154. # [21:19] <zcorpan> here's why opera doesn't want to support it (longish paste, sorry):
  1155. # [21:19] <zcorpan> What happens when the directory structure has a loop? on unix you can have hard links that are undetectable, and can create infinite loops of various kinds.
  1156. # [21:19] <zcorpan>
  1157. # [21:19] <zcorpan> What happens when the user drops / (root directory) or c:\ ?
  1158. # [21:19] <zcorpan>
  1159. # [21:19] <zcorpan> What happens when the directories contain ".." links to the parent - what permission was granted (eg. read the parent folder contents)?
  1160. # [21:19] <zcorpan>
  1161. # [21:19] <zcorpan> What should happen with path names if the user drops /home/ or c:\users\ - should the Web site be given a directory structure which then exposes the usernames and profile paths (which the user would *never* want to expose, but wouldn't realise they are exposing)?
  1162. # [21:19] <zcorpan>
  1163. # [21:19] <zcorpan> What happens if two folders contain the same file name (assuming that you expose just the files instead of letting the script browse folder structure)?
  1164. # [21:19] <zcorpan>
  1165. # [21:20] <zcorpan> This is hell, and I just don't want to go there.
  1166. # [21:20] <zcorpan> (gotta go)
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  1244. # [23:16] <sicking> Hixie: yes, we want to do directories with thousands of files in them
  1245. # [23:17] <Hixie> sicking: i mean, you want to expose a hierarchy, in addition to supporting the user dragging a ton of files flat
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  1247. # [23:18] <sicking> Hixie: yes, i want to expose the heirarcy, but it doesn't have to be throught the ability to traverse a directory tree. Though it's an advantage if that can be done as well, though much lower priority
  1248. # [23:18] <sicking> Hixie: i.e. exposing a list of files with names like "foo/bar/baz.doc" is enough to expose hierarchy
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  1250. # [23:19] <Hixie> by "hierarchy", i mean specifically not giving everything in one flat synchronous list
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  1252. # [23:24] <sicking> well
  1253. # [23:24] <sicking> a flat list could be ok
  1254. # [23:25] <sicking> as long as we can provide some sort of useful progress events as we are "loading" that list (which is hard since we can't give a percentage since we don't know how many files total)
  1255. # [23:26] <sicking> oh, but i guess that if you mean "synchronous" you mean synchronously from the "drop" event, then that's not good, yes
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  1257. # [23:27] <jgraham> What are your solutions for the security/privacy issues that zcorpan mentioned?
  1258. # [23:28] <Hixie> i have no solution
  1259. # [23:28] <Hixie> fwiw
  1260. # [23:28] <sicking> neither do I
  1261. # [23:29] <jgraham> That seems like a problem :(
  1262. # [23:29] <Hixie> problems, that i have
  1263. # [23:29] <sicking> but i don't know what the security/privacy issue that zcorpan mentioned is
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  1266. # [23:30] <jgraham> sicking: You just assume you don't have a solution to any security / privacy issues? :)
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  1268. # [23:30] <Hixie> jgraham: it's a pretty good starting assumption :-)
  1269. # [23:30] <jgraham> sicking: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20120913#l-1154
  1270. # [23:30] <sicking> "<sicking> *neither* do I" (emphasis added by me)
  1271. # [23:30] <sicking> oh
  1272. # [23:31] <sicking> you said "don't" :)
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  1274. # [23:32] <sicking> jgraham: good questions indeed
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  1276. # [23:32] <Hixie> the loop one is particularly bad and pretty much means we can't do a flattening solution
  1277. # [23:32] <Hixie> but that's really just pushing the problem into the script
  1278. # [23:32] <jgraham> Yeah, I should find out who came up with the list :)
  1279. # [23:33] <sicking> jgraham: i'd be inclined to simply not follow links
  1280. # [23:33] <sicking> jgraham: seems like that would still retain the majority of use cases
  1281. # [23:33] <jgraham> sicking: Does that work for hard links?
  1282. # [23:34] <sicking> jgraham: you keep having all these good questions :)
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  1284. # [23:35] <Hixie> you can't not follow links
  1285. # [23:36] <Hixie> they're indistingushable from directories :-)
  1286. # [23:36] <jgraham> I think I ought to sleep now
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  1299. # [23:50] <Hixie> sicking: can you elaborate on why you don't want to use the filesystem api for this? do you just not think we should have that api at all?
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  1311. # Session Close: Fri Sep 14 00:00:00 2012

The end :)