/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-03-15 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Mar 15 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  38. # [01:02] <zewt> wish i could say <img src=sha1.jpg filename=family.jpg> to hint browsers to save-as with a different filename (without having to fight with servers to set content-disposition)
  39. # [01:03] <zewt> but i couldn't even get people to believe i wanted that for <a>
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  48. # [01:21] <zewt> oh, jesus christ
  49. # [01:21] <zewt> apparently webkit allows navigating to blob URLs, and people are using it for things
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  51. # [01:23] <zewt> https://github.com/eligrey/FileSaver.js/blob/master/FileSaver.js this idiot is navigating to a blob url to basically polyfill FileSaver
  52. # [01:25] <zewt> not entirely sure how since this code is pretty unreadable
  53. # [01:27] <zewt> or maybe it's trying to do that on firefox and doing something else in webkit
  54. # [01:27] <zewt> stripping down the code to figure it out
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  57. # [01:30] <zewt> whew: looks like it's trying to do that in firefox, but is already broken (maybe firefox used to allow navigating to blob URLs and they stopped that)
  58. # [01:30] <zewt> <- terrified of anything that could make blob URLs more complicated and poorly specced than they already are
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  87. # [02:29] <sicking> ng
  88. # [02:30] <zewt> wt
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  268. # [10:14] * jgraham wonders how to answer "would it be possible to add tests" without sounding rude
  269. # [10:14] <jgraham> The answer is something like "yes, of course. But someone needs to write them"
  270. # [10:16] <jgraham> zcorpan: Do you have any plans to add workers typed array tests?
  271. # [10:16] <zcorpan> jgraham: yeah i can do that
  272. # [10:17] <jgraham> zcorpan: Did you see the email on public-webapps-testsuite? There is a WebGL test but it is in some other format
  273. # [10:17] <zcorpan> i guess structured clone and transfer in general needs tests
  274. # [10:17] <jgraham> https://github.com/KhronosGroup/WebGL/blob/master/sdk/tests/conformance/typedarrays/typed-arrays-in-workers.html
  275. # [10:17] <zcorpan> yeah lemme reply
  276. # [10:18] <jgraham> OK, that's one easy solution :)
  277. # [10:19] <jgraham> I thought we had some tests for structured clone kicking around in some context, but I'm pretty sure they predate typed arrays
  278. # [10:22] <zcorpan> yeah
  279. # [10:22] <zcorpan> and probably predate transfer, too
  280. # [10:24] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@108-75-75-178.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  281. # [10:25] <zcorpan> reviewing the microsoft worker gives me the impression that they have tried to get as many test *files* as possible with as little effort as possible
  282. # [10:25] <zcorpan> which is a bit annoying
  283. # [10:26] <zcorpan> e.g. compare http://w3c-test.org/webapps/Workers/tests/submissions/Microsoft/Worker_ErrorEvent_filename.htm and http://w3c-test.org/webapps/Workers/tests/submissions/Microsoft/Worker_ErrorEvent_lineno.htm
  284. # [10:26] <zcorpan> (or maybe s/with as little effort as possible//)
  285. # [10:27] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@bl7-114-48.dsl.telepac.pt)
  286. # [10:27] <tobie> wrote some basic tests for structured cloning a while back.
  287. # [10:27] <tobie> let me try to dig them out.
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  290. # [10:29] <jgraham> To be fair the old Opera test thing with top.rr encouraged the same behaviour
  291. # [10:30] <jgraham> Or encouraged you to do things like passed = e.someProp == "expected1" && e.otherProp == "expected2" && [...]
  292. # [10:31] <jgraham> So it's hard to know if it's just a cultral thing where they are writing tests in the same way they always have
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  297. # [10:40] <smaug____> zcorpan: then r- the tests ;)
  298. # [10:40] <zcorpan> smaug____: working on it
  299. # [10:40] <zcorpan> jgraham: yes
  300. # [10:41] <zcorpan> jgraham: i'm sure i have tests that do this sort of thing as well
  301. # [10:42] <Ms2ger> So, git wizards
  302. # [10:42] <Ms2ger> How do I make "git pull w3c" work?
  303. # [10:43] <Ms2ger> To pull from https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests
  304. # [10:44] <jgraham> Ms2ger: git remote add w3c git@github.com:w3c/web-platform-tests.git
  305. # [10:44] <jgraham> If you don't already have a remote called w3c
  306. # [10:45] <jgraham> Otherwise git remote set-url w3c git@github.com:w3c/web-platform-tests.git
  307. # [10:45] <Ms2ger> You asked to pull from the remote 'w3c', but did not specify
  308. # [10:45] <Ms2ger> a branch. Because this is not the default configured remote
  309. # [10:45] <Ms2ger> for your current branch, you must specify a branch on the command line.
  310. # [10:45] <jgraham> OK
  311. # [10:46] <jgraham> git branch --set-upstream {branchname} w3c/master
  312. # [10:46] <jgraham> (honestlky, I never use git pull. I always use git fetch and then explicity rebase)
  313. # [10:48] <Ms2ger> I have no idea what all of those are
  314. # [10:48] <jgraham> What all what are?
  315. # [10:49] <jgraham> git pull does two things by default: "git fetch" which pulls in all the commits from an upstream and "git merge" which tries to merge the current branch with the upstream branch it's tracking
  316. # [10:49] <tobie> zcorpan, jgraham: here: https://gist.github.com/tobie/3d81cd3d48859d2df1dd
  317. # [10:50] <tobie> LMK if that's of interest to you, in which case I'll submit them officially.
  318. # [10:50] <Ms2ger> I'm only pulling after my PR has been merged
  319. # [10:50] <jgraham> That is pretty silly behaviour because a) it is too easy to make a branch that's tracking the wrong thing and b) rebase is better than merge for unpushed changes
  320. # [10:51] <Ms2ger> And my unpushed changes are in a hg repo for my sanity
  321. # [10:51] <jgraham> So instead of doing the magic all-in-one operation, you can do each part independently (like in hg)
  322. # [10:51] <jgraham> git fetch, then git rebase {branch I think is the one this branch should be based on}
  323. # [10:51] * Joins: nonge_ (~nonge@p50829C87.dip.t-dialin.net)
  324. # [10:51] <annevk> Hixie: I think I should give a response of sorts
  325. # [10:52] <tobie> Agreed. git fetch W3C and rebasing is a much more sane strategy.
  326. # [10:52] * Philip` likes "git pull --rebase"
  327. # [10:52] * Joins: alrra (~alrra@unaffiliated/alrra)
  328. # [10:52] <jgraham> You can also change the default behaviour of git pull to rebase
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  330. # [10:53] <zcorpan> tobie: thanks
  331. # [10:53] <Ms2ger> So, I fetched
  332. # [10:53] <Ms2ger> Now I'm trying to push those commits to my fork
  333. # [10:53] <jgraham> (which is "git config branch.autosetuprebase always")
  334. # [10:54] <jgraham> git push {remote} HEAD:{remote_branch}
  335. # [10:54] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl7-114-48.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
  336. # [10:54] <jgraham> Will push HEAD on your local checkout to {remote_branch} in the remote named {remote}
  337. # [10:55] <jgraham> (HEAD could be anything commit-like e.g. a branch name)
  338. # [10:56] <tobie> zcorpan: note I have zero recollection of why I implemented the structureClone helper function that way.
  339. # [10:56] <jgraham> (so you can do things like "git fetch w3c; git push ms2ger w3c/master:master" to update the master branch in the ms2ger remote with the latest commits from the w3c remote)
  340. # [10:56] <Ms2ger> *sigh*
  341. # [10:56] <Ms2ger> All I want to do is hg pull -u w3c && hg push
  342. # [10:56] <Ms2ger> Why is this so hard?
  343. # [10:57] <jgraham> It isn't :p
  344. # [10:57] <Philip`> Ms2ger: Because you make life hard for yourself by using two tools instead of one?
  345. # [10:57] <Ms2ger> Anyway, git pull w3c master and git push seems to have worked
  346. # [10:58] <Philip`> It only takes a few months to get used to how git does things
  347. # [10:59] * Ms2ger tries to remember what he was going to do before git got in the way
  348. # [11:00] <jgraham> If all you are doing is shunting commits between different remote repos, I think you *really* don't want to use git pull
  349. # [11:00] <jgraham> But anyway, if you solved your problem, that's good :)
  350. # [11:01] <Ms2ger> Well, what did I want to do, then?
  351. # [11:02] <Ms2ger> Fetch did something, but apparently not enough
  352. # [11:02] <SimonSapin> eh, we found the packet of death that crashes our MTA … time to invoke http://xkcd.com/242/
  353. # [11:03] <jgraham> Ms2ger: fetch will bring all the remote commits into your local repository
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  355. # [11:04] <Philip`> I think "git fetch" is equivalent to "hg pull" (without the "-u")
  356. # [11:04] <Ms2ger> Then how do I do hg update?
  357. # [11:05] <SimonSapin> Ms2ger: git merge origin/master (assuming the branch is master, and you want a merge rather than a rebase)
  358. # [11:05] <jgraham> I think the answer is "it depends exactly what you want to do"
  359. # [11:05] <Ms2ger> I don't want to merge
  360. # [11:06] <SimonSapin> although rebase and merge are the same if nothing have diverged. git calls that a "fast-forward merge"
  361. # [11:06] <Ms2ger> My tree is a subset of upstream
  362. # [11:06] <jgraham> If you want to checkout the upstream changes
  363. # [11:06] <jgraham> Then the safest option is git merge --ff-only
  364. # [11:07] <SimonSapin> Ms2ger: it’s still called a merge, although a "fast-forward" one
  365. # [11:07] <jgraham> Which will update your local branch but only if it is really a subset of upstream
  366. # [11:07] <jgraham> And throw an error if it isn't
  367. # [11:07] <jgraham> If you *do* have local commits
  368. # [11:07] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@bl7-114-48.dsl.telepac.pt)
  369. # [11:07] <Ms2ger> A merge is when you have two heads, and you create a new commit with the two heads as parents
  370. # [11:08] <SimonSapin> Ms2ger: git calls that a non-fast-forward merge
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  373. # [11:08] <Ms2ger> So git just calls things that aren't merges merges to confuse me?
  374. # [11:08] <Ms2ger> That sounds pretty much expected
  375. # [11:08] <jgraham> Well you are merging in the remote changes
  376. # [11:08] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@bl7-114-48.dsl.telepac.pt)
  377. # [11:09] <jgraham> So it's not like it doesn't make sense
  378. # [11:11] <jgraham> (I don't tend to think in terms of "heads" with git. I just think in terms of branches)
  379. # [11:11] <Ms2ger> Not with my definition of merge :)
  380. # [11:12] <Ms2ger> Anyway
  381. # [11:13] <Ms2ger> Feel free to review :)
  382. # [11:14] * Joins: tomasf (~tomasf@77.72.97.4.c.fiberdirekt.net)
  383. # [11:15] <jgraham> I wonder why that didn't get a critic review
  384. # [11:16] <Ms2ger> It did
  385. # [11:16] <Ms2ger> This is an automatic message generated by the review at:
  386. # [11:16] <Ms2ger> http://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/8
  387. # [11:16] <jgraham> Oh, I'm just not set up as a reviewer there :)
  388. # [11:17] <Ms2ger> tobie, and I'm pretty sure ES doesn't accept tests from people who aren't employed by a TC member
  389. # [11:17] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@c-67-180-8-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: sicking)
  390. # [11:17] <zcorpan> does https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/37 have a critic review?
  391. # [11:17] * Joins: [[zzz]] (~q@node-7h6.pool-125-25.dynamic.totbb.net)
  392. # [11:17] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@host-89-242-27-100.as13285.net)
  393. # [11:18] <jgraham> zcorpan: Does now: http://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/9
  394. # [11:18] <jgraham> I forgot to transfer the filters to the new repo.
  395. # [11:18] <tobie> Ms2ger: that is just absurd.
  396. # [11:18] <Ms2ger> tobie, indeed
  397. # [11:18] <jgraham> tobie: Also, true
  398. # [11:19] <tobie> mmm.
  399. # [11:19] <Ms2ger> tobie, but no, I'm not going to bother fighting them
  400. # [11:19] <tobie> I might.
  401. # [11:19] <jgraham> Pretty sure the right thing to do is smuggle them in via jwalden or someone
  402. # [11:19] <tobie> I live 10 min away from Ecma HQ.
  403. # [11:19] <Ms2ger> I could do that
  404. # [11:19] <Ms2ger> But then I have to do work
  405. # [11:19] <jgraham> Well I mean the right thing to do is to take pitchforks and burning torches to ECMA
  406. # [11:19] <Ms2ger> Whereas it's much easier to just route around the damage
  407. # [11:20] * Quits: [[zz]] (~q@node-j69.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  408. # [11:20] <Ms2ger> jgraham, do the keyboard shortcuts actually work in Fx?
  409. # [11:20] * Quits: Areks|2 (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  410. # [11:21] <jgraham> Ms2ger: I think they might not. If they don't work in Chrome either I guess it will get fixed soon ;)
  411. # [11:21] <Ms2ger> Heh
  412. # [11:21] <jgraham> Otherwise, patches welcome (or I will look)
  413. # [11:22] <tobie> what license is test262 under?
  414. # [11:22] <tobie> can't find this info on the website.
  415. # [11:23] <jgraham> darobin, MikeSmith, tobie, zcorpan, Ms2ger, others: if you had filters on the html-tetssuite repo. in critic you will need to readd tehm for the web-platform-tests repo. Sorry about that.
  416. # [11:23] <jgraham> https://github.com/tronical/test262/blob/master/LICENSE
  417. # [11:23] <jgraham> Perhaps?
  418. # [11:24] <tobie> jgraham: ty.
  419. # [11:25] <jgraham> https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/test262-discuss/2012-February/000086.html is also relevant
  420. # [11:25] <tobie> OK, so I guess we should try to fix the contribution situation at Ecma (I'll give it a try), or fork the repo and pull it in somehow.
  421. # [11:31] * Quits: tomasf (~tomasf@77.72.97.4.c.fiberdirekt.net) (Quit: tomasf)
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  423. # [11:35] <zcorpan> is there something that returns a File without user interaction?
  424. # [11:36] <tobie> Happy birthday darobin!
  425. # [11:36] <tobie> zcorpan: nope.
  426. # [11:36] <zcorpan> this is annoying
  427. # [11:36] <tobie> There's a thread about that being an issue for testing on the whatwg mailing list, afaik.
  428. # [11:36] <darobin> thanks tobie :)
  429. # [11:36] <zcorpan> ah
  430. # [11:36] <tobie> where I complain direly.
  431. # [11:36] <jgraham> Oh, happy birthday
  432. # [11:37] <darobin> thank you man :)
  433. # [11:38] * Joins: tomasf (~tomasf@77.72.97.4.c.fiberdirekt.net)
  434. # [11:39] <zcorpan> tobie: i can't find the thread. what should i search for?
  435. # [11:39] <tobie> zcorpan: webapps, actually: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2012OctDec/0675.html
  436. # [11:39] <tobie> and I must've dreamt about complaining.
  437. # [11:40] <jgraham> Maybe you are actually Victor Costan in disguise?
  438. # [11:41] <tobie> maybe.
  439. # [11:41] <zcorpan> tobie: thanks
  440. # [11:43] <tobie> jgraham: the more plausible answer is I failed at clicking send.
  441. # [11:44] <tobie> jgraham: or the content was so full of some of my signature garbled sentences it was trashed by a spambot.
  442. # [11:45] <annevk> darobin darobin darobin
  443. # [11:45] <annevk> happy b-day!
  444. # [11:45] <Ms2ger> I thought it was darobin's birthday just now...
  445. # [11:48] <jgraham> Maybe he's like the Queen
  446. # [11:50] <tobie> Ms2ger: Reached out to Ecma. we'll see how this goes. Will keep youposted.
  447. # [11:51] <Ms2ger> Ta
  448. # [11:52] <tobie> Do we have specs in the WebApps where we feel we have 100% test coverage?
  449. # [11:52] <tobie> Trying to validate our test coverage mode, here.
  450. # [11:52] <tobie> s/mode/model/
  451. # [11:52] <Ms2ger> Mm
  452. # [11:52] <Ms2ger> Progress events
  453. # [11:53] <darobin> annevk annevk! Thanks :)
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  455. # [11:56] <tobie> Ms2ger: ty
  456. # [11:56] <zcorpan> if i'm reading webidl right, this should throw TypeError: postMessage(null, [null]);
  457. # [11:57] <zcorpan> since null isn't a Transferable and can't be converted to one
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  460. # [12:00] <Ms2ger> What's the definition of postMessage?
  461. # [12:04] <zcorpan> void postMessage(any message, optional sequence<Transferable> transfer);
  462. # [12:04] <zcorpan> this is the worker postMessage
  463. # [12:06] <Ms2ger> Looks like it would throw, yes
  464. # [12:08] <zcorpan> hmm. cross-document messaging is a webapps spec, isn't it? i guess webapps needs to join the github thing if they want the tests i submitted there :-)
  465. # [12:09] <zcorpan> maybe i should send an email to public-webapps-testing about that
  466. # [12:09] <Ms2ger> We'll see what Art sorts out today
  467. # [12:10] <zcorpan> i guess the document structure in the testsuite is generated from the whatwg spec?
  468. # [12:11] <zcorpan> or maybe not
  469. # [12:11] <Ms2ger> darobin did it
  470. # [12:12] <tobie> zcorpan: if you want to use the tests I sent you, I'll need to run them through fb legal. Should be fast, but I still have to do it.
  471. # [12:12] <Ms2ger> Fun
  472. # [12:12] * Joins: Areks (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com)
  473. # [12:12] <tobie> Ms2ger: absolutely.
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  476. # [12:18] <darobin> zcorpan: the structure is generated from the spec, err, I forgot which variant I used but the differences are small
  477. # [12:18] * Joins: Jedi_ (~Jedi@jedi.org)
  478. # [12:18] <darobin> as for webapps moving to github, everyone seems to be waiting on the approval from someone else
  479. # [12:19] <darobin> so what I would recommend is: JFDI
  480. # [12:19] <darobin> ask for forgiveness, not permission and all that
  481. # [12:19] <darobin> and even then, screw forgiveness
  482. # [12:19] <darobin> just do it
  483. # [12:23] * Quits: tobie (~tobielang@73-118.195-178.cust.bluewin.ch) (Quit: tobie)
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  486. # [12:27] <Ms2ger> darobin, Art said he'd try to sort it out today, so maybe we could wait for that :)
  487. # [12:28] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-217-68-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  488. # [12:28] <darobin> you're such a bureaucratic square Ms2ger
  489. # [12:29] <Ms2ger> If you wanted to jfdi, should've done that ages ago :)
  490. # [12:29] * Joins: HLFH (~hlfh@AMontsouris-651-1-231-84.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  491. # [12:30] <darobin> Ms2ger: I'm not working on WebApps testing :p
  492. # [12:31] <Ms2ger> Why not? :)
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  495. # [12:32] <jgraham> Because then plh will apply "jfdi" to his fingers with a hammer?
  496. # [12:34] * Quits: alrra (~alrra@unaffiliated/alrra) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  497. # [12:34] <darobin> Ms2ger: because I have two or three other things to do...
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  513. # [13:14] <annevk> Ms2ger: but progress events is a useless spec, might be worth adding :)
  514. # [13:14] <Ms2ger> True :)
  515. # [13:14] <Ms2ger> But he didn't ask that
  516. # [13:15] <jgraham> We could write the null spec with 0 conformance requirements so that we have one with complete test coverage
  517. # [13:16] <jgraham> Although by "write"
  518. # [13:16] <jgraham> I really mean "use HTML4"
  519. # [13:18] <annevk> brb, adding quotes to my desk
  520. # [13:18] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-217-68-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  521. # [13:29] <annevk> http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20130315#l-281 :-(
  522. # [13:29] <annevk> Sounds like Microsoft's CSS tests
  523. # [13:30] <annevk> But then of course they do contribute, whereas others just don't care that much...
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  528. # [13:59] <tobie> Ms2ger: meeting with Ecma next week. Seems like this is fixable.
  529. # [13:59] <Ms2ger> We'll see
  530. # [14:00] <tobie> oh come on. A bit of optimism wouldn't hurt. :)
  531. # [14:00] <Ms2ger> You must be new here :)
  532. # [14:01] <gsnedders> "this"?
  533. # [14:01] * gsnedders wonders if tobie is trying to let others submit tests to test262
  534. # [14:01] <Ms2ger> Right
  535. # [14:02] <tobie> Ms2ger: you know I am. :)
  536. # [14:02] <gsnedders> I got the impression this had to go to the Ecma GA to get approved, and nobody had the drive to push it through there.
  537. # [14:03] <jgraham> gsnedders: You can tell we are talking javascript if you aren't sure what "this" referes to
  538. # [14:04] <tobie> jgraham: I was trying to find a joke to make around this but failed.
  539. # [14:04] <Ms2ger> Nicely done
  540. # [14:04] <gsnedders> But I know what this refers to! thisArg!
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  544. # [14:07] <zcorpan> hmm. i'm trying to build cssom with the latest xref/ but get an error: ValueError: Expecting property name: line 26 column 1 (char 791)
  545. # [14:07] <gsnedders> How come WebKit/Gecko support blobs for WebWorkers?
  546. # [14:07] <zcorpan> File "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.7/lib/python2.7/json/decoder.py", line 382, in raw_decode
  547. # [14:07] <zcorpan> obj, end = self.scan_once(s, idx)
  548. # [14:07] <Ms2ger> What's the deepest anolis frame?
  549. # [14:08] <gsnedders> I mean for the Worker constructor, here.
  550. # [14:08] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: the above is at the bottom of the traceback
  551. # [14:09] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.134.164)
  552. # [14:09] <gsnedders> zcorpan: But it's not a frame with Anolis in it.
  553. # [14:09] <zcorpan> ah. File "build/bdist.macosx-10.8-intel/egg/anolislib/processes/xspecxref.py", line 56, in buildReferences
  554. # [14:09] * Quits: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  555. # [14:10] <jgraham> Is the latest xref/ actually valid json?
  556. # [14:10] <Ms2ger> Apparently not
  557. # [14:10] * Joins: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it)
  558. # [14:10] <zcorpan> what's broken?
  559. # [14:11] <Ms2ger> https://github.com/whatwg/xref/commit/dd82cfef17a9f9230fd487106a7475048f5ee79a
  560. # [14:11] <Ms2ger> You can't have a comma at the end of the line
  561. # [14:11] <zcorpan> oh, oops!
  562. # [14:15] <jgraham> Yeah, what a ridiculous notion
  563. # [14:16] <zcorpan> now make gives me `No such file or directory: 'data/xrefs/css/cssom.json'. Please create it first. ` and `[Errno 20] Not a directory: u'data/specs.json'`
  564. # [14:16] <zcorpan> though cssom.json exists there afaict :-/
  565. # [14:17] * Joins: wo (~klar@24.244.143.13)
  566. # [14:18] <Ms2ger> Oh, so
  567. # [14:19] <Ms2ger> Hm
  568. # [14:19] <Ms2ger> Maybe try --xref="../xref"?
  569. # [14:21] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi)
  570. # [14:22] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: where?
  571. # [14:22] <Ms2ger> In the makefile
  572. # [14:22] <Ms2ger> Like https://github.com/whatwg/xhr/blob/master/Makefile
  573. # [14:23] * Joins: TallTed (~Thud@31-35-74.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  574. # [14:24] <zcorpan> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/csswg/file/654203ca5641/cssom/Makefile is the current makefile
  575. # [14:25] * Ms2ger tries
  576. # [14:27] <zcorpan> i added --xref="data" (since that's where xref lives) but got the same result
  577. # [14:32] * Joins: yodasw16 (~yodasw16@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com)
  578. # [14:35] * Ms2ger is confused
  579. # [14:38] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: about what?
  580. # [14:45] * Quits: jryans (~jryans@cpe-70-113-92-118.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: Be back later)
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  584. # [14:55] <Ms2ger> About the fact that anolis doesn't throw here
  585. # [14:55] <Ms2ger> But instead gives me an empty Overview.html
  586. # [14:55] <Ms2ger> The node stuff, probably
  587. # [14:55] <Ms2ger> Ah, here we are
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  589. # [14:57] <Ms2ger> zcorpan, where do you get the webidl parser?
  590. # [14:58] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/csswg/file/654203ca5641/cssom/README
  591. # [14:59] * Joins: Jedi_ (~Jedi@jedi.org)
  592. # [15:00] <annevk> Ms2ger: did you write that
  593. # [15:00] * Ms2ger gives up
  594. # [15:00] <annevk> I mean zcorpan
  595. # [15:00] <zcorpan> annevk: no
  596. # [15:01] <annevk> Defining HTML inline with IDL seems like a terrible idea
  597. # [15:01] <annevk> That's what ReSpec does and every spec with ReSpec runs into problems because of it
  598. # [15:01] <jgraham> "defining html inline with idl"?
  599. # [15:04] <zcorpan> example idl file: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/csswg/file/654203ca5641/cssom/idl/CSSCharsetRule.idl and the html source which references idls: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/csswg/file/654203ca5641/cssom/cssom-source
  600. # [15:05] * jgraham wonders why kris and plh aren't "ext" in Art's email
  601. # [15:06] <annevk> it's the sole thing I dislike about Art
  602. # [15:06] <annevk> his email client
  603. # [15:07] <annevk> so annoying, I think sometimes it has leaked into my contacts
  604. # [15:07] <jgraham> Well
  605. # [15:07] <jgraham> To be fair
  606. # [15:08] <Ms2ger> Hrm
  607. # [15:08] <Ms2ger> It claims to be thunderbird
  608. # [15:08] <jgraham> It's better than all the non-plain-text, gmail-toting, Googlers
  609. # [15:08] <Ms2ger> And I can confirm that it's not a feature of thunderbird
  610. # [15:08] <jgraham> I assumed that it was a feature of nokia
  611. # [15:09] <jgraham> That people without @nokia.com addresses are marked external
  612. # [15:09] <jgraham> But that theory seems to be wrong
  613. # [15:09] <Ms2ger> Also better than: howcome's indented >'s for quoting, Chris Lilley' 'INITIALS>'
  614. # [15:10] <jgraham> And <bryan>
  615. # [15:12] <Ms2ger> My response is in red
  616. # [15:13] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl7-114-48.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
  617. # [15:13] <tobie> jgraham: :D
  618. # [15:15] <annevk> I'm glad I got you guys inspired, this is entertaining
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  622. # [15:21] <zcorpan> just do what bjoern does and paper over people's email client's quirks
  623. # [15:22] <Ms2ger> I'd love to see his stuff implemented in my client
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  631. # [15:46] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: jgraham: does https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/38 have a critic review? (how do i create one myself if there isn't?)
  632. # [15:46] <zewt> pretty much the most hopelessly broken thing in email today is people who do the "no quote markers at all" thing
  633. # [15:46] <zewt> which is essentially "i don't care about how the internet does things and it doesn't bother me if i break the thread for everyone else"
  634. # [15:46] <Ms2ger> zcorpan, there is one
  635. # [15:46] <Ms2ger> zcorpan, http://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/8
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  638. # [15:47] <jgraham> zcorpan: Did you add yourself as a reviewer on that repo?
  639. # [15:48] <zcorpan> no
  640. # [15:48] <jgraham> You should :)
  641. # [15:48] <jgraham> I will try to teach critic to comment on the pull request itself at some point
  642. # [15:49] <zcorpan> done. yeah that would be nice
  643. # [15:51] <tobie> yes. We'll be logging comments shortly, so having critic working properly there would be useful.
  644. # [15:51] * Joins: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@63.250.249.138)
  645. # [15:53] <jgraham> Logging comments?
  646. # [15:53] <tobie> see Im hopeless after 3pm
  647. # [15:53] <jgraham> (I just meant critic would push a message saying "Critic review at {url}")
  648. # [15:54] <tobie> oh.
  649. # [15:54] <tobie> Well that's not very useful.
  650. # [15:54] <jgraham> (doing something more is probably possible but I'm not really sure hwo well the data models match)
  651. # [15:54] <jgraham> (e.g. as far as I can tell, github things of comments as things that apply to commits)
  652. # [15:54] <tobie> yeah, possibly.
  653. # [15:55] <tobie> some of them.
  654. # [15:55] <jgraham> (not to commits,pullrequest tuples)
  655. # [15:55] <jgraham> (also, less seriously, critic allows multiline comments and has two types of comment, whereas gh only has a single type of single line comment)
  656. # [15:55] <jgraham> *thinks
  657. # [15:56] <tobie> Don't make me have this conversation again.
  658. # [15:56] <jgraham> I'm not making you have any conversation
  659. # [15:56] <jgraham> I'm just pointing out that there are some difficulties
  660. # [15:57] * tobie stays put.
  661. # [15:57] <tobie> :D
  662. # [15:58] <jgraham> http://developer.github.com/v3/pulls/comments/#create-a-comment does look a little more promising than I thought
  663. # [15:59] * Quits: mven_ (~mven@ip68-224-15-53.lv.lv.cox.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  664. # [16:02] <Ms2ger> I complained on IRC once...
  665. # [16:03] <Ms2ger> Anyone who's on the webgl mailing list?
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  671. # [16:31] <zcorpan> nice weekend guys
  672. # [16:32] <annevk> Hixie: http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1086158925&order=-1&count=1 seems we are now doing those kind of OS-level APIs :-)
  673. # [16:32] <annevk> zcorpan: you too!
  674. # [16:33] <zcorpan> thanks :-)
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  689. # [17:00] <darobin> heh
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  692. # [17:01] <darobin> what actually happened: "If three of the most bitter rivals in the marketplace — all of whom have extensive experience in the subject in question — agree on something, then it's probably [...]"
  693. # [17:01] <darobin> A) that they don't want the competition
  694. # [17:01] <darobin> B) that they have their heads so far up their arses doing what they've done that they can't see alternatives
  695. # [17:02] <darobin> C) that they're on their way to lose their dominance or even disappear
  696. # [17:02] <darobin> D) all of the above
  697. # [17:02] <SimonSapin> darobin: Is that about mobile carriers in France?
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  699. # [17:03] <TabAtkins> jgraham: The way to answer that question is. "Yes. Are you volunteering to write them? ^_^" (the smilie at the end is important)
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  701. # [17:07] <darobin> SimonSapin: no, it's about the 2004 Hixie blog post that annevk pointed to
  702. # [17:07] <darobin> featuring Sun Microsystems, assuming you're old enough to remember who that is
  703. # [17:08] <SimonSapin> were they W3C members?
  704. # [17:09] <annevk> I've not had time to fix many bugs yet, but it's up at http://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/ now
  705. # [17:11] <annevk> I'm also thinking of putting basic CORS and redirect handling directly into basic fetch
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  707. # [17:12] <annevk> Thoughts welcome
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  710. # [17:17] <darobin> SimonSapin: oh yes
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  715. # [17:23] <SimonSapin> darobin: I know about Sun, but it ceased to be before I knew about working groups
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  720. # [17:43] <darobin> SimonSapin: they were very big in XML groups
  721. # [17:44] <darobin> and towards the end in anything related to mobile
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  743. # [18:12] <annevk> darobin: depending on this bus I'm about to take, I might be a bit early or late
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  746. # [18:14] <darobin> annevk: that's okay, we're heading out in a few minutes so we'll be there
  747. # [18:15] <annevk> darobin: are you close to Leicester Square now by any chance?
  748. # [18:15] <darobin> not really
  749. # [18:15] <darobin> I'm in Bethnal Green
  750. # [18:16] <darobin> I'll be walking to that pub
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  752. # [18:17] <annevk> nice
  753. # [18:18] <Ms2ger> Enjoy
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  755. # [18:20] <smaug____> scheib: ping
  756. # [18:23] <darobin> annevk: actually, I'm in the wrong TZ — I'll be walking there in about 30min
  757. # [18:24] <annevk> right
  758. # [18:24] <annevk> it'll take me about an hour anyway
  759. # [18:30] <marcosc> darobin: happy birthday, fella!
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  762. # [18:32] <darobin> marcosc: thanks man!
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  764. # [18:36] <jgraham> Did anne really just say "my arrival time depends on how long it takes me to get there"?
  765. # [18:38] <jgraham> TabAtkins: In this case it wasn't so mcuh "write them" as "rewrite them to not be part of the WebGL testsuite"
  766. # [18:38] <jgraham> But as it turns out zcorpan is awesome
  767. # [18:38] <jgraham> Next week: sky blue
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  781. # [18:57] <darobin> "I don't always go to Bethnal Green, but when I do my arrival time depends on how long it takes me to get there" --annevk
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  812. # [20:04] <scheib> smug____: at lunch. Email?
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  816. # [20:08] <Ms2ger> smaug____, you mean
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  825. # [20:15] <smaug____> scheib: ping me after lunch ?
  826. # [20:15] <smaug____> scheib: I'm wondering about the focus handling and pointer lock
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  829. # [20:15] <smaug____> and spec is unclear about documents and windows
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  848. # [20:54] <scheib> smaug____: Let's discuss pointer lock and focus handling.
  849. # [20:55] <smaug____> scheib: so, first, "Pointer lock must succeed only if the target is in the DOM tree."
  850. # [20:55] <smaug____> what if the target is in a data document
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  852. # [20:56] <smaug____> say, document.implementation.createHTMLDocument().body.requestPointerLock()
  853. # [20:56] <smaug____> what should happen?
  854. # [20:56] <scheib> I'm unfamiliar why that wouldn't be considered as part of the DOM, apologies.
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  856. # [20:56] <Ms2ger> It's part of the DOM
  857. # [20:56] <Ms2ger> But there's no browsing context
  858. # [20:56] <smaug____> yes, it is part of DOM
  859. # [20:56] <smaug____> right
  860. # [20:58] <smaug____> then, about focusing. What should happen to pointer lock when focus is moved to an iframe ?
  861. # [20:59] <smaug____> per spec pointer lock is cancelled in that case
  862. # [20:59] <smaug____> but I'm not sure whether implementations actually do that always
  863. # [21:00] <scheib> So, I'm not personally familiar with createHTMLDocument() yet, just started looking. It seems to create a new document for you, but is it rooted anywhere?
  864. # [21:00] <smaug____> "rooted"?
  865. # [21:00] <smaug____> it is just a document
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  867. # [21:00] <Ms2ger> Not in a frame or somehting
  868. # [21:01] <scheib> Ok, so you can request a lock on a document, and it will be rejected from locking if it is not the document of an active tab, and the tab in the OS level active window.
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  870. # [21:02] <smaug____> yeah, something like that. Need to just use spec terminology
  871. # [21:02] <scheib> BTW, if we can improve the wording of the specification I'm happy to do so, suggestions welcome.
  872. # [21:02] <smaug____> browsing context and such
  873. # [21:02] <smaug____> scheib: the focus handling is more interesting
  874. # [21:02] <smaug____> hmm, actually, per spec, focusing an iframe doesn't exit lock state, since the parent window is still focused... I think
  875. # [21:02] <smaug____> but that may mean that key events go to domain X yet mouse events to domain Y
  876. # [21:02] <scheib> Ok, on to that. If focus is in the main document, and not an iframe, I expect a request for pointer lock to fail if made from the iframe.
  877. # [21:02] <Ms2ger> "Every bug is two bugs: the bug in your code, and the test you didn't write"
  878. # [21:03] <smaug____> scheib: request pointer lock in top level document
  879. # [21:03] <smaug____> scheib: then focus iframe
  880. # [21:03] <smaug____> what should happen to pointer lock
  881. # [21:03] <smaug____> note, mouse isn't used to focus the iframe
  882. # [21:04] <smaug____> only .focus() or some such
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  884. # [21:04] <scheib> Right. I don't see a reason it should exit (yet).
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  889. # [21:04] <smaug____> well, it is really really odd if key events go to domain X yet all the mouse events to domain Y
  890. # [21:05] <smaug____> key events follow focus
  891. # [21:05] <smaug____> mouse events follow pointer lock
  892. # [21:07] <scheib> 'odd' may be subjective here. If mouse input has been locked to a particular target I believe it is reasonable for it to stay locked to that target unless there is a reason to break it (user exit, app exit, user moves operating system focus away from the web page).
  893. # [21:08] <scheib> The ability to move the keyboard input focus is intentional, it should move, you should still be able to type into different input boxes, move around with TAB, etc.
  894. # [21:08] <smaug____> even cross domain?
  895. # [21:09] <smaug____> anyhow, the spec should clarify this
  896. # [21:09] <scheib> Crossing into an iframe, from a user point of view, is essentially the same as moving between regions of a web page. Unless we are protecting a user from a security vulnerability I don't know that they should be concerned about the domain, in the same way they aren't normally concerned when they move keyboard focus when outside of pointer lock.
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  898. # [21:10] <scheib> Re clarifying the spec: certainly, we can do that, let's wrap up that we're in agreement as to what should happen.
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  901. # [21:11] <smaug____> I think I can live with focus moving
  902. # [21:11] <smaug____> at least until a security bug is found
  903. # [21:11] <smaug____> :)
  904. # [21:12] <scheib> Ok. BTW, I verify that webkit allows the transition in current implementation via http://scheib.github.com/HTMLMisc/PointerLockAndFullscreen.html
  905. # [21:13] <smaug____> based on code inspection Gecko allows focus changes in fullscreen mode, but I was thinking to change it
  906. # [21:13] <smaug____> but maybe I don't do that yet
  907. # [21:14] <smaug____> I'm adding the non-fullscreen mode
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  909. # [21:20] <scheib> In clarifying the spec for focus, how does this addition in section 7. Requirements sound to you: "The Pointer Lock API must exit the pointer lock state if the user agent, window, or tab loses focus." by adding, " Moving focus between elements in a tab, including into other browser contexts inside iframes, does not exit pointer lock."
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  911. # [21:21] <smaug____> scheib: sounds ok
  912. # [21:21] <smaug____> thanks
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  923. # [21:36] <smaug____> scheib: if pointer lock and focus are first in iframe, and then focus is moved to parent, what should happen?
  924. # [21:37] <smaug____> iframe isn't focused anymore, so I guess pointer lock is cancelled
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  930. # [21:46] <scheib> smaug____: Same arguments as above, I don't see a reason to exit pointer lock.
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  933. # [21:47] <scheib> E.g. use case, a 3D model editor that is a composition of 3D window views and a property editor on the right hand side. Pointer lock engaged inside one the of 3D views that are each an iframe, and then keyboard focus moved to a number edit box in the property editor in the parent document. Why break the lock?
  934. # [21:53] <smaug____> scheib: well, then the spec needs still some clarifications
  935. # [21:55] <scheib> " Moving focus between elements in a tab, including into other browser contexts across iframe boundaries, does not exit pointer lock." ?
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  937. # [21:55] <smaug____> hmm, actually, need to drop iframe
  938. # [21:55] <smaug____> we have frames and what not
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  943. # [22:01] <scheib> " Moving focus between elements in a tab, including into other browsing contexts, does not exit pointer lock." ?
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  948. # [22:07] <smaug____> ok
  949. # [22:07] <scheib> smaug____: Any suggestions on how to clarify in specification terms the relationship between a document and a tab with active window manager focus?
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  951. # [22:17] <scheib> smaug____: mmm, I'm thinking along the lines of "active document of the browsing context currently focused by the OS/window manger, e.g. in the active tab of a browser." http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/browsers.html#active-document
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  954. # [22:21] <smaug____> yeah
  955. # [22:21] <smaug____> something like that
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  969. # [22:36] <Hixie> zewt: <a download> exists now
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  971. # [22:37] <zewt> that doesn't let me set a filename without also forcing a download (like content-disposition: inline; filename=foo)
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  973. # [22:38] <Hixie> ah, right
  974. # [22:38] <zewt> don't think i ever really understood why we didn't do <a download filename=foo>, keeping them orthogonal (like they are in C-D)
  975. # [22:40] <Hixie> more complicated
  976. # [22:42] <zewt> keeping unrelated things separate seems simpler to me, at least
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  980. # [22:47] <zewt> uh gross, firefox is recommending putting BOMs on files (in the console)
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  999. # [23:44] <smaug____> Web Audio API spec is so sad
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  1008. # Session Close: Sat Mar 16 00:00:00 2013

The end :)