/irc-logs / mozilla / #accessibility / 2015-02-11 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Feb 11 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #accessibility
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  5. # [00:39] <@firebot> New Firefox - Keyboard Navigation bug 1131844 filed by johan.charlez@gmail.com.
  6. # [00:40] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1131844 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — Can't close tab with ctrl+w on Youtube when video is focused.
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  10. # [01:09] <smaug> tbsaunde: do we need to IPC-fy any of the AccessibilityFooEvent interfaces?
  11. # [01:11] <smaug> hmm, it is not yet clear to me what nsIAccessibleFooEvents are meant for
  12. # [01:11] <smaug> looking
  13. # [01:14] <smaug> I see
  14. # [01:15] <tbsaunde> smaug: to tell the platform what a11y stuff has happened and yes
  15. # [01:15] <tbsaunde> smaug: basically we need to make the SendEvent message more useful
  16. # [01:16] <tbsaunde> split into several messages
  17. # [01:16] <smaug> I don't see accessible-event being used a lot
  18. # [01:16] <smaug> I guess the documentation isn't quite right
  19. # [01:16] <tbsaunde> we already have SendShowEvent and SendHideEvent for nsIAccessible{Show,Hide}Event so cache of tree in parent is kept up to date
  20. # [01:17] <smaug> ah, I guess I misunderstood the comment in nsIAccessibleEvent.idl
  21. # [01:17] <tbsaunde> smaug: see AccessibleWrap::HandleAccEvent
  22. # [01:18] <smaug> that is dealing AccEvent
  23. # [01:19] <tbsaunde> smaug: I guess that comment is kind of wrong but mostly useless, there isn't any real in process consumer other than tests
  24. # [01:19] <tbsaunde> smaug: ok sure, but nsIAccessible*Event is a thin wrapper around AccEvent
  25. # [01:20] <smaug> so far haven't found where that wrapper lives..
  26. # [01:20] <smaug> looking
  27. # [01:20] <tbsaunde> smaug: its autogenerated by AccEventGen.py
  28. # [01:20] <smaug> oh
  29. # [01:20] <smaug> any idea why AccEvent but nsIAccessibleEvent
  30. # [01:21] <smaug> this naming is a bit confusing ;)
  31. # [01:21] <smaug> with all the wrappers and proxies
  32. # [01:21] <smaug> and don't take my complains too seriously
  33. # [01:21] <tbsaunde> smaug: yeah, well it is kind of useful to know what people who aren't used to it think
  34. # [01:23] <smaug> cases like class HyperTextAccessible : public AccessibleWrap
  35. # [01:23] <tbsaunde> smaug: I guess AccEvent was nice and short, but nobody cared to rename all things to nsIAccFoo
  36. # [01:24] <smaug> so are we dealing there some Accessible object or wrapper of such or what
  37. # [01:24] <tbsaunde> smaug: AccessibleWrap is a class implemented by platform specific stuff to customize Accessible per platform
  38. # [01:25] <tbsaunde> it ... is not a great design, but its old and nobodies felt like fixing it
  39. # [01:25] <tbsaunde> it also kind of works reasonably for windows
  40. # [01:25] <smaug> I see
  41. # [01:28] <tbsaunde> though working well for windows kind of stops when e10s enters the picture
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  43. # [01:31] * smaug doesn't see nsIAccessibleEvent implementations to wrap AccEvent
  44. # [01:33] <tbsaunde> smaug: see AcEventGen.py
  45. # [01:33] <smaug> tbsaunde: I'm looking at the generated code
  46. # [01:33] <smaug> no member variables like AccEvent
  47. # [01:34] <smaug> in the generated classes
  48. # [01:34] <tbsaunde> smaug: I think it copies the members of AccEvent?
  49. # [01:35] <smaug> yeah, looks like it is like a xpc-clone or some such
  50. # [01:35] <smaug> not really a wrapper
  51. # [01:35] <smaug> a11y::MakeXPCEvent
  52. # [01:35] <tbsaunde> smaug: sure, clone is more accurate I guess
  53. # [01:36] * tbsaunde thinks the difference here is a little pedantic
  54. # [01:37] <smaug> tbsaunde: not for someone hacking DOM Events, where DOMEvent wraps WidgetEvent ;)
  55. # [01:37] <smaug> tbsaunde: but the C++ implementation uses AccEvents, and only JS needs the generated stuff?
  56. # [01:38] <smaug> and jsat
  57. # [01:39] <tbsaunde> smaug: yeah, only js needs generated stuff
  58. # [01:40] <tbsaunde> jsat is 1 js, and 2 is has a different setup for e10s because it wants to work on b2g already
  59. # [01:41] <smaug> right
  60. # [01:41] <smaug> but we don't want to break it when dealing with e10s-desktop
  61. # [01:44] <tbsaunde> smaug: true
  62. # [01:44] <tbsaunde> I think we'd probably have to go out of our way to do that though
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  110. # [14:13] <&MarcoZ> Good morning yzen!
  111. # [14:13] <@yzen> MarcoZ hi there !
  112. # [14:14] <&MarcoZ> Can't wait until bug 1125422 lis merged, and is ported to 2.2 as well!
  113. # [14:14] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1125422 — NEW, bugmail.mozilla@staktrace.com — [AccessFu] Touch and mouse events are not blocked from content
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  123. # [14:53] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Resolution on bug 1125422 from --- to FIXED.
  124. # [14:53] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Status on bug 1125422 from NEW to RESOLVED.
  125. # [14:53] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com set status-firefox38 to fixed on bug 1125422.
  126. # [14:53] <@firebot> cbook@mozilla.com changed the Target Milestone on bug 1125422 from --- to mozilla38.
  127. # [14:53] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1125422 — FIXED, bugmail.mozilla@staktrace.com — [AccessFu] Touch and mouse events are not blocked from content
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  136. # [15:26] <~davidb> heyo
  137. # [15:27] <@yzen> MarcoZ looks like it is now, will soon get to 2.2 :)
  138. # [15:28] <&MarcoZ> yzen: Yay!
  139. # [15:33] <&MarcoZ> Heyo davidb!
  140. # [15:33] <&MarcoZ> davidb: Another one for barrier smash: Bug 1132036.
  141. # [15:33] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1132036 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — Make all items in the Navigation toolbar keyboard focusable
  142. # [15:33] <~davidb> MarcoZ, awesome, can you go ahead and edit https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/BarrierSmash/Meetings/2015-02-11
  143. # [15:49] <&MarcoZ> davidb: Done.
  144. # [15:49] <~davidb> thank you!
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  151. # [17:21] <@firebot> bugmail.mozilla@staktrace.com set status-b2g-v3.0 to fixed on bug 1125422.
  152. # [17:21] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1125422 — FIXED, bugmail.mozilla@staktrace.com — [AccessFu] Touch and mouse events are not blocked from content
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  159. # [17:30] <~davidb> surkov, we're on
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  165. # [17:38] <~davidb> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/BarrierSmash/Meetings/2015-02-11
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  171. # [18:28] <smaug> nsIAccessible::help seems to be useless
  172. # [18:39] <smaug> should screenreader tell about accesskey on an html element?
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  175. # [18:53] <@surkov> smaug: help is presented in desktop apis, I guess we keep it just incase if one day we get something on the web to map into it
  176. # [18:53] <tbsaunde> smaug: I think there some api for them to get access key yeah
  177. # [18:56] <Gijs> davidb: also, I think Unfocused might potentially be interested in helping with barriersmash :)
  178. # [18:56] <smaug> tbsaunde: trying to figure out what to implement and if I can actually test the stuff
  179. # [18:57] <~davidb> Gijs, brilliant
  180. # [18:57] <smaug> value seems to be another property which atk doesn't use
  181. # [18:57] <smaug> but mac and win do
  182. # [18:57] <~davidb> Gijs, i'm guessing not via meeting attendance
  183. # [18:58] <~davidb> (5:30am for him)
  184. # [18:58] <tbsaunde> smaug: I'd think nsIAccessibleText stuff would be a good candidate
  185. # [18:58] <smaug> tbsaunde: I'll start with something simple, value it is for now even if I can't test it :)
  186. # [18:59] <Gijs> davidb: err... yeah, likely not :)
  187. # [18:59] <smaug> need to start writing actual patches
  188. # [18:59] <smaug> that is the only way to learn this
  189. # [18:59] <tbsaunde> smaug: k, I actually don't think text will be compicated
  190. # [18:59] <smaug> k
  191. # [18:59] <smaug> will do that next
  192. # [19:00] <tbsaunde> that said in the long term I think caching text in the parent process should be strongly considered
  193. # [19:00] <~davidb> tbsaunde, yeah
  194. # [19:00] <tbsaunde> but I bet it'd be a couple solid months of work
  195. # [19:03] <smaug> tbsaunde: do we currently know in a11y code if DOM has changed, so if text might have changed?
  196. # [19:05] <smaug> also, deciding what to cache should be based on profiles and actual timing information what is slow
  197. # [19:05] <smaug> the less we have sync parent->child, the better
  198. # [19:06] <smaug> surkov: tbsaunde: can I use Mozilla coding style in new a11y code?
  199. # [19:07] <tbsaunde> smaug: we should know if text changes (there is events for that)
  200. # [19:07] <@surkov> smaug: I’d say we should have common code style, but what change do you keep in mind?
  201. # [19:07] <smaug> always using {} with if/for/while/etc
  202. # [19:07] <@surkov> I see, I’d say up to you
  203. # [19:07] <tbsaunde> smaug: the bigger problem is that layout's word / line navigation stuff is used to break up words
  204. # [19:08] <tbsaunde> and of course actual data would be good that's why I said considered ;)
  205. # [19:09] <smaug> surkov: ok, I'll use Mozilla coding style everywhere then
  206. # [19:09] <smaug> I wonder if I could convince poiru to go through also a11y code to make it use the normal coding style
  207. # [19:10] <joanie> smaug: if you're running out of AtkText bugs, I could start filing some. ;) Orca still has many hacks for bogus AtkText results from Gecko.
  208. # [19:10] <@surkov> I sortof like having no braces around single if etc
  209. # [19:10] <~davidb> (I have to say, I am thrilled about {}'s !)
  210. # [19:11] <~davidb> (especially if I ever write a patch again ;)
  211. # [19:12] <smaug> surkov: I like consistency, so always {}, and even more important is the consistency with the rest of the codebase, IMO
  212. # [19:12] * tbsaunde is meh, but blank lines are basically manditory
  213. # [19:12] <smaug> (next I'll need to convince JS folks to give up with their odd coding style ;) )
  214. # [19:12] <@surkov> I like consistency too but in this case I like these things both :)
  215. # [19:13] * Gijs is now known as Gijs_away
  216. # [19:13] <@surkov> and I’m not sure which one more
  217. # [19:13] <smaug> the more I've reviewed code, the more I want consistency in coding style in Gecko
  218. # [19:13] <@surkov> I bet
  219. # [19:13] <@surkov> I get too rare out of a11y so it doens’t hit me too much
  220. # [19:14] <@surkov> anyway
  221. # [19:14] <@surkov> I think I won’t fight for no braces rule
  222. # [19:14] <smaug> k
  223. # [19:15] <@surkov> but I find it nice :)
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  227. # [19:23] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1132134 filed by bugs@pettay.fi.
  228. # [19:23] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1132134 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — Get Accessible value from the child process
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  232. # [19:27] <~davidb_> tbsaunde, what time is your interview today?
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  234. # [19:29] <joanie> speaking of misc bugs, I've got a test case which spews errors like (firefox:2627): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: gsignal.c:3410: signal name 'text-remove::system' is invalid for instance '0x7f5016e8da10' of type 'MaiAtkType25'
  235. # [19:29] <joanie> I assume MaiFoo is Gecko?
  236. # [19:30] <tbsaunde> davidb_: 15:00
  237. # [19:30] <~davidb_> ack
  238. # [19:30] * davidb_ is now known as davidb
  239. # [19:30] <tbsaunde> joanie: yeah
  240. # [19:31] * joanie tries to make a quicker version of the test case suitable for filing a bug
  241. # [19:31] <tbsaunde> let me go relearn that weird code to create those gobject class name things
  242. # [19:31] <joanie> hehe
  243. # [19:31] <joanie> you love GLib
  244. # [19:31] <joanie> admit it
  245. # [19:31] <joanie> :P
  246. # [19:33] <joanie> and later, if someone really is looking for a11y bugs to fix, i'll file all the text ones I'm hacking around. I've added debugging code to spew out the instances.
  247. # [19:33] <joanie> so running the 2.25 hours of regression tests should find plenty
  248. # [19:34] <tbsaunde> joanie: haha
  249. # [19:42] * Quits: agibson (agibson@moz-j04gi9.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: )
  250. # [19:44] <tbsaunde> joanie: would the test case for that gwarning thing include Progress meters by any chance?
  251. # [19:45] <joanie> progress anyway
  252. # [19:45] <joanie> not meters
  253. # [19:45] <joanie> known issue?
  254. # [19:46] <tbsaunde> joanie: no, just occured to me as a possible cause
  255. # [19:47] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1132140 filed by jdiggs@igalia.com.
  256. # [19:47] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1132140 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — WARNING spewage for text-changed signals being invalid for MaiAtkType25
  257. # [19:47] <joanie> tbsaunde: there you go
  258. # [19:48] <joanie> oh, I just thought of yet another bug I need to file
  259. # [19:48] <joanie> In some cases I'm seeing an embedded object character in the accessible name of an object
  260. # [19:48] * joanie takes some ritalin and tries to focus ;)
  261. # [19:50] <tbsaunde> huh
  262. # [19:51] <joanie> huh what? test case, EOCs in names, or your shock that I need Ritalin? ;)
  263. # [19:53] <tbsaunde> joanie: eoc
  264. # [19:54] <tbsaunde> smaug: fwiw windows stuff will be commited very shortly
  265. # [19:54] <joanie> tbsaunde: ok, then I'll prioritize finding one of those for you
  266. # [19:54] <tbsaunde> I didn't promise to fix it ;p just went that's weird
  267. # [19:54] <tbsaunde> but seems like the sort of thing surkov might want to do
  268. # [19:54] <joanie> oh, I know. That's why I've not filed the text bugs yet.
  269. # [19:56] <tbsaunde> text is soooooooooooooooo awful :"(
  270. # [19:56] * Quits: maxli (maxli@moz-favcmk.cs.uwaterloo.ca) (Quit: Leaving.)
  271. # [19:57] <tbsaunde> you fix one thing and break something else
  272. # [19:57] <joanie> yeah, man in retrospect I'm starting to think the Apple way is the right way
  273. # [19:57] <@surkov> it seem text bugs will outlive me :)
  274. # [19:57] <joanie> they don't flatten anything
  275. # [19:57] <joanie> which at first seems sucky
  276. # [19:57] <joanie> but if you (meaning Orca) have to piece together everything any way
  277. # [19:57] <joanie> and have to check everything because of all the bugs in the implementation
  278. # [19:58] <tbsaunde> joanie: now you are starting to suprise me ;)
  279. # [19:58] <joanie> then the accessible text interface and all the embedded object characters and the like are basically worthless
  280. # [19:58] <smaug> tbsaunde: not sure what " windows stuff will be commited very shortly" means
  281. # [19:58] <joanie> tbsaunde: I have so many (and now more, though not committed yet) sanity checks and work arounds to deal with this
  282. # [19:59] <joanie> and in the end, it's probably faster just to ignore the bulk of AtkText,
  283. # [19:59] <joanie> but that's a rant for another day
  284. # [20:00] <smaug> tbsaunde: did you have any plans how to implement AccessibleText? Would DocAccessibleChild be the entry point also for all that stuff on child side?
  285. # [20:01] <smaug> I guess so
  286. # [20:02] <tbsaunde> smaug: yeah, I just do that for now
  287. # [20:02] <tbsaunde> Follow TextSubstring for how to deal with interface checks
  288. # [20:03] <tbsaunde> smaug: I have a patch implementing half of IAccessible with ipc stuff
  289. # [20:04] <smaug> I see
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  301. # [20:56] * davidb is now known as davidb|afk
  302. # [20:59] <@firebot> bugs@pettay.fi changed the Assignee on bug 1132134 from nobody@mozilla.org to bugs@pettay.fi.
  303. # [20:59] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1132134 — NEW, bugs@pettay.fi — Get Accessible value from the child process
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  317. # [22:23] <smaug> Are all the AsFoo methods in a11y safe to call even if the type is not Foo
  318. # [22:24] <smaug> in other words, does one first need to check IsFoo() before calling AsFoo() ?
  319. # [22:24] * Gijs_away is now known as Gijs
  320. # [22:24] <smaug> (In DOM IsFoo() is always needed before AsFoo())
  321. # [22:24] <smaug> (which can be a bit annoying in certain cases)
  322. # [22:25] <smaug> though, returning null would mean in DOM that the method name should be GetAsFoo()
  323. # [22:28] <tbsaunde> smaug: I think they're all safe
  324. # [22:29] <smaug> ok, thanks
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  340. # [23:27] <@firebot> New Core - Disability Access APIs bug 1132223 filed by bugs@pettay.fi.
  341. # [23:27] <@firebot> https://bugzil.la/1132223 — NEW, nobody@mozilla.org — Add IdToAccessible and IdToHyperTextAccessible to DocAccessibleChild to reduce code duplication
  342. # [23:30] * Parts: satdav (uid15780@moz-0t6277.uxbridge.irccloud.com) ("")
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  345. # Session Close: Thu Feb 12 00:00:00 2015

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