/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2009-09-09 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Sep 09 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  19. # [11:47] <annevk> Bert, we published CSS 2.1 but not Media Queries?
  20. # [11:47] <annevk> hmm
  21. # [11:47] <annevk> oh well
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  25. # [12:05] <Bert> Hi annevk. Did I make a mistake? I thought I was waiting for you to edit the document.
  26. # [12:05] <Bert> But I see you already updated it.
  27. # [12:05] <Bert> I'll send a publication request right away.
  28. # [12:06] <Bert> Hmm, I see I (or somebody :-) ) need to update the bibliography database, too.
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  45. # [17:36] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-CSS-irc
  46. # [17:36] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
  47. # [17:36] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 30 minutes
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  49. # [17:41] * bradk is only semi-here as I fulfil other commitments.
  50. # [17:44] <glazou> bradk: np
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  59. # [18:01] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  60. # [18:01] <Zakim> + +95089aaaa
  61. # [18:01] <glazou> Zakim, aaaa is me
  62. # [18:01] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  63. # [18:01] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  64. # [18:01] <sylvaing> Zakim, [Microsoft] has sylvaing
  65. # [18:01] <Zakim> +sylvaing; got it
  66. # [18:05] * Joins: oyvinds (oyvinds@213.236.208.22)
  67. # [18:06] <Zakim> + +1.281.305.aabb
  68. # [18:06] <TabAtkins> Zakim, aabb is TabAtkins
  69. # [18:06] <Zakim> +TabAtkins; got it
  70. # [18:07] <Zakim> +Bert
  71. # [18:08] * sylvaing doesn't remember daily fees for TPAC last year....
  72. # [18:08] <glazou> nope
  73. # [18:08] <glazou> they were no fees last year
  74. # [18:08] <glazou> that's the 1st time
  75. # [18:09] <sylvaing> and it's per day, which is an interesting model
  76. # [18:09] <sylvaing> and probably a huge pain to track
  77. # [18:09] <sylvaing> if they can
  78. # [18:10] * glazou wonders how much it costs to track vs. income
  79. # [18:10] <Zakim> +Hakon_Lie
  80. # [18:12] <glazou> ScribeNick: TabAtkins
  81. # [18:12] <Zakim> +[Mozilla]
  82. # [18:13] <glazou> Zakim, mute Mozilla
  83. # [18:13] <Zakim> [Mozilla] should now be muted
  84. # [18:13] <Zakim> -[Mozilla]
  85. # [18:13] * Bert David speaking in morse? :-)
  86. # [18:13] <dbaron> sorry
  87. # [18:13] <glazou> np that happens
  88. # [18:13] <dbaron> I can't figure out why it wasn't muted
  89. # [18:13] * sylvaing note to self: Mozilla has machine gun
  90. # [18:13] <Zakim> + +34.60.940.aacc
  91. # [18:14] <Zakim> +[Mozilla]
  92. # [18:14] <Zakim> -[Mozilla]
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  95. # [18:14] <dbaron> ok, I thought I found the mute but I clearly didn't
  96. # [18:15] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: TPAC's early reg ends soon, fee raised from $50 to $75
  97. # [18:15] <glazou> s/sylvaing/glazou
  98. # [18:15] <dbaron> Zakim, mute [Mozilla]
  99. # [18:15] <Zakim> sorry, dbaron, I do not know which phone connection belongs to [Mozilla]
  100. # [18:15] <dbaron> Zakim, mute [Mozilla]
  101. # [18:15] <Zakim> sorry, dbaron, I do not know which phone connection belongs to [Mozilla]
  102. # [18:15] <dbaron> Zakim, mute [Mozilla]
  103. # [18:15] <Zakim> sorry, dbaron, I do not know which phone connection belongs to [Mozilla]
  104. # [18:15] <Zakim> +[Mozilla]
  105. # [18:15] <dbaron> Zakim, mute [Mozilla]
  106. # [18:15] <Zakim> [Mozilla] should now be muted
  107. # [18:15] <Zakim> +??P33
  108. # [18:15] <dbaron> Zakim, [Mozilla] has David_Baron
  109. # [18:15] <Zakim> +David_Baron; got it
  110. # [18:15] <Zakim> +ChrisL
  111. # [18:16] <TabAtkins> glazou: What to do with Beijing profile? Make note about it or drop it?
  112. # [18:16] <TabAtkins> glazou: Requests fantasai to write up minutes from last week.
  113. # [18:16] <dbaron> is fantasai aacc or P33?
  114. # [18:16] <glazou> P33
  115. # [18:17] <glazou> aacc is Cesar
  116. # [18:17] <TabAtkins> Bert: wants to discuss exactly what the containing block is for a run-in.
  117. # [18:17] <dbaron> Zakim, P33 is fantasai
  118. # [18:17] <Zakim> sorry, dbaron, I do not recognize a party named 'P33'
  119. # [18:17] <dbaron> Zakim, ??P33 is fantasai
  120. # [18:17] <Zakim> +fantasai; got it
  121. # [18:17] <TabAtkins> glazou: Hakon wants to defer 2nd item (floats in multicol) until next week.
  122. # [18:17] <dbaron> Zakim, aacc is CesarAcebal
  123. # [18:17] <Zakim> +CesarAcebal; got it
  124. # [18:17] <dbaron> Zakim, who is on the phone?
  125. # [18:17] <Zakim> On the phone I see glazou, [Microsoft], TabAtkins, Bert, Hakon_Lie, CesarAcebal, [Mozilla] (muted), fantasai, ChrisL
  126. # [18:18] <Zakim> [Mozilla] has David_Baron
  127. # [18:18] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has sylvaing
  128. # [18:18] <fantasai> http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-CSS-irc -- unformatted minutes from last week
  129. # [18:18] <fantasai> I'll send the minutes out soon
  130. # [18:18] <TabAtkins> glazou: Hyatt's not around, so defer first item (gradients) until later
  131. # [18:18] <fantasai> Beijing profile is waiting on Selectors
  132. # [18:19] * glazou laughs at ChrisL's question
  133. # [18:19] <dbaron> I think we should continue planning to advance css-beijing on rec track
  134. # [18:19] <TabAtkins> fantasai: role of CSS Beijing is to describe the state of CSS at the time.
  135. # [18:19] <TabAtkins> fantasai: waiting on Selectors to enter CR before Beijing can enter CR.
  136. # [18:20] <TabAtkins> glazou: Any other opinions about what to do with it?
  137. # [18:20] * myakura wonders if MQ can be a part of the profile
  138. # [18:20] <dbaron> myakura, I think MQ should be in the next one
  139. # [18:20] * TabAtkins who asked "who is it useful to?"
  140. # [18:20] * sylvaing tab, me
  141. # [18:20] <glazou> sylvaing
  142. # [18:20] <TabAtkins> fantasai: it's useful to people who don't track us closely, and want to know what's useful/usable right now.
  143. # [18:21] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Beijing says "these are the specs we consider to be stable and active, and should be considered "part of CSS" right now"
  144. # [18:21] * TabAtkins and who was that last one?
  145. # [18:21] <sylvaing> me again :)
  146. # [18:22] <ChrisL> Beijing CSS Technologies Development Co., Ltd.is a high-tech and leading company in the field of electronic article surveillance system
  147. # [18:22] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: I've never seen anyone talking about Beijing outside of the WG.
  148. # [18:22] <ChrisL> http://eas-world.en.alibaba.com/
  149. # [18:22] <glazou> s/sylvaing/glazou
  150. # [18:22] <TabAtkins> glazou: Who is using it? How do they find it?
  151. # [18:22] <glazou> s/glazou/sylvaing
  152. # [18:22] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Validators are using it. The website can be confusing, but it's still useful.
  153. # [18:22] * TabAtkins gosh dang
  154. # [18:22] * glazou sees TabAtkins can't discriminate two french accents :-)
  155. # [18:23] * TabAtkins I can't!
  156. # [18:23] * sylvaing awesome, i can play chair and make tab do crazy stuff
  157. # [18:23] <glazou> lol sylvaing
  158. # [18:24] <TabAtkins> Fantasai: The current work website lists all sorts of things that may not be actually useful CSS right now for authors, Beijing provides a useful service to authors.
  159. # [18:24] * TabAtkins that one's sylvaing?
  160. # [18:24] <sylvaing> yes
  161. # [18:24] <dbaron> We could also rename it to "CSS Snapshot 2010" or whatever once we determine what the correct year is :-)
  162. # [18:24] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: As long as authors will find it useful, I'm okay with it.
  163. # [18:24] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: What do we do with the current document?
  164. # [18:24] <glazou> s/sylvaing/glazou
  165. # [18:24] <TabAtkins> Bert: It's useful as a CR. I want to point people to it.
  166. # [18:24] * TabAtkins omg
  167. # [18:25] <TabAtkins> Bert: At the moment it's just a Working Draft, and causing confusion with all the other WDs we ahve.
  168. # [18:25] <sylvaing> sylvaing: ...but if it is aimed at authors, the latter need to be able to get to it and find it easily
  169. # [18:25] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I can't move it to CR until Selectors moves. I'd love to move it, but selectors is blocking.
  170. # [18:25] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Let's deal with Selectors LC so we can move it.
  171. # [18:25] * sylvaing suspects Tab may be trying to claim scribing immunity....
  172. # [18:26] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I need a full week to address all LC comments and get them formatted/published
  173. # [18:26] <TabAtkins> glazou: Defer that, waiting on fantasai to address Selectors comments
  174. # [18:27] <dbaron> direction of what?
  175. # [18:27] <TabAtkins> glazou: next item from Bert! (containing block for run-ins) Suggest send an email to www-style
  176. # [18:27] <TabAtkins> Bert: Sure. I can point out options, but am not sure which direction to go in.
  177. # [18:27] <TabAtkins> glazou: Give people a week or so to think about it on the list.
  178. # [18:28] <TabAtkins> glazou: Any further CSS 2.1 issues to discuss. don't think we had anything left from last week?
  179. # [18:28] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Don't believe anything off to pthe top of my head is ready for discussion.
  180. # [18:28] <TabAtkins> glazou: TPAC - we shoudl start collecting agenda items
  181. # [18:29] * fantasai will come
  182. # [18:29] <ChrisL> I will attend TPAC
  183. # [18:29] <TabAtkins> glazou: I'd like to know how many people are coming. Send attendance/regrets asap, don't forgot to book flights and hotels.
  184. # [18:30] <anne> FWIW, moving the snapshot to CR is possible even if Selectors is LC
  185. # [18:30] <TabAtkins> glazou: CSS Variables - we need Hyatt, so let's not discuss, but at least get it minuted.
  186. # [18:30] <TabAtkins> glazou: Proposal from Hyatt and me in Webkit, another proposal from fantasai
  187. # [18:30] <anne> The normative reference problem arises at PR, not CR, and even there you could in theory ignore it if you have good reasons.
  188. # [18:30] <TabAtkins> glazou: It's a top question from designers. I want a decision to either move forward or just drop it.
  189. # [18:30] <TabAtkins> glazou: it seems like we just stopped
  190. # [18:31] <TabAtkins> Bert: I want it dropped; haven't changed my opinion
  191. # [18:31] <TabAtkins> glazou: I'll drop Hyatt an email to get him in next week.
  192. # [18:33] <Zakim> -ChrisL
  193. # [18:33] <TabAtkins> glazou: That's it. Short call. See you next week.
  194. # [18:33] <Zakim> -CesarAcebal
  195. # [18:33] <Zakim> -fantasai
  196. # [18:33] <Zakim> -Bert
  197. # [18:33] <Zakim> -Hakon_Lie
  198. # [18:33] <Zakim> -TabAtkins
  199. # [18:33] <Zakim> -glazou
  200. # [18:33] <dbaron> Zakim, disconnect [Mozilla]
  201. # [18:33] <Zakim> [Mozilla] is being disconnected
  202. # [18:33] * TabAtkins sorry for the glazou/sylvaing confusion. >_<
  203. # [18:33] <Zakim> -[Mozilla]
  204. # [18:33] <fantasai> TabAtkins: it's okay, it takes awhile to recognize voices over the phone
  205. # [18:33] <glazou> TabAtkins: np, that happens everytime a new WG member is taking minutes for the 1st time
  206. # [18:34] <TabAtkins> I'll have to be careful when writing up the minutes to pay attention to the corrections.
  207. # [18:34] <glazou> but you said you were having problems with norwegian accents and in fact it's french accents ;-)
  208. # [18:34] <glazou> or both :-D
  209. # [18:34] <TabAtkins> Nah, I was previously having trouble telling Bert apart from some others.
  210. # [18:34] <ChrisL> tab, do you know how to get html minutes made?
  211. # [18:35] <TabAtkins> ChrisL nope, linky?
  212. # [18:35] <ChrisL> zakim, list attendees
  213. # [18:35] <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +95089aaaa, glazou, sylvaing, +1.281.305.aabb, TabAtkins, Bert, Hakon_Lie, +34.60.940.aacc, ChrisL, David_Baron, fantasai, CesarAcebal
  214. # [18:35] <ChrisL> rrsagent, make logs public
  215. # [18:35] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, ChrisL
  216. # [18:35] * sylvaing needs to learn the minuting process too
  217. # [18:35] <dbaron> fantasai, your response to the background-clip thread saying "please shift this discussion to www-style" is the only message in the thread not on www-style
  218. # [18:35] <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
  219. # [18:35] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/09/09-CSS-minutes.html ChrisL
  220. # [18:35] <fantasai> oh
  221. # [18:35] <fantasai> sorry
  222. # [18:35] <ChrisL> now wait a minute or two before clicking!
  223. # [18:35] <TabAtkins> Woo, thanks ChrisL
  224. # [18:35] <ChrisL> np
  225. # [18:35] * Quits: CesarAcebal (acebal@85.152.176.161) (Quit: CesarAcebal)
  226. # [18:36] <fantasai> dbaron: thanks for pointing that out
  227. # [18:36] * TabAtkins was going to write it up manually in the style that fantasai's emails use
  228. # [18:36] * fantasai needs to put on her glasses
  229. # [18:36] * dbaron goes to get lunch
  230. # [18:36] * Quits: glazou (glazou@82.247.96.19) (Quit: bll)
  231. # [18:37] <ChrisL> yes, putting a summary of actions, resolutions and so on at the start is very useful
  232. # [18:39] <TabAtkins> k, will do.
  233. # [18:39] <TabAtkins> That's what I read to figure out what part of the minutes I need to read.
  234. # [18:40] <fantasai> TabAtkins: I usually grab the IRC logs, regex them to strip out the dates and the minute-taker's name, cut irrelevant lines like Zakim's, and then format them while checking them for errors
  235. # [18:41] <TabAtkins> kk
  236. # [18:41] <TabAtkins> You write good minutes, so I'm just gonna emulate you.
  237. # [18:41] <fantasai> hehe, thanks ^_^
  238. # [18:44] <TabAtkins> Also: Chris, I'm pretty sure I skipped a line from you. If you remember saying anything important, let me know where I should insert it.
  239. # [18:44] <TabAtkins> ChrisL, rather.
  240. # [18:44] <sylvaing> yes, it's hard to beat fantasai at the minute game. my goal is still to last a whole telcon without her asking me if I need her to take over :)
  241. # [18:46] <TabAtkins> I just need to get better at telling you and glazou apart.
  242. # [18:49] <sylvaing> i like doing it; just not familiar enough with certain aspects of CSS to keep up sometimes. knowledge does help
  243. # [18:51] <sylvaing> well, daniel chairs so he speaks a lot more than me. and he'll say things that only the meeting chair would like....'Hakon, shut up, I'm the chair' :)
  244. # [18:54] * Quits: ChrisL (ChrisL@128.30.52.30) (Client exited)
  245. # [18:58] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: Hahaha. Yeah, I mostly went with the assumption that if the person was speaking authoritatively it was glazou
  246. # [18:59] <TabAtkins> And I do make it my mission to understand absolutely as much about CSS as possible. My one big failure so far is the inline formatting model.
  247. # [19:00] * Quits: oyvinds (oyvinds@213.236.208.22) (Quit: oyvinds)
  248. # [19:01] <sylvaing> I hear you. our tester here has a version of the spec annotated with references to the relevant testcase. going through that one bit every day helps. but i think i really need to build real pages. I didn't really start to get floats until I actually used them.
  249. # [19:02] <TabAtkins> Floats are mystical entities who only show their true from in front of a virgin under a full moon.
  250. # [19:02] <TabAtkins> It does help that I actually *use* this stuff every day, rather than code the backend for it. ^_^
  251. # [19:03] <sylvaing> dude, I don't even code the backend. that's the painful part sometimes
  252. # [19:04] <TabAtkins> What *do* you do then, sylvaing? Hang out in the lunchroom drinking b&j&liquor floats?
  253. # [19:04] <sylvaing> but coming to it from the pov of an implementer or a tester definitely helps
  254. # [19:05] <sylvaing> msft has a separate role for design/specifications/project management work.
  255. # [19:06] <sylvaing> used to be coder until i came here 3 years ago
  256. # [19:06] <sylvaing> i think it was their way to tell me I was too nice and social to be a developer around here, but way too nerdy for marketing
  257. # [19:07] <TabAtkins> So they dropped you somewhere where you could be social and nerdy at the same time?
  258. # [19:07] <sylvaing> that's the gig
  259. # [19:07] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  260. # [19:07] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  261. # [19:07] <Zakim> Attendees were +95089aaaa, glazou, sylvaing, +1.281.305.aabb, TabAtkins, Bert, Hakon_Lie, +34.60.940.aacc, ChrisL, David_Baron, fantasai, CesarAcebal
  262. # [19:08] <sylvaing> you get to do technical stuff. you can look at the code and hunt bugs all you want. you just don't write or check-in new features, typically.
  263. # [19:08] <sylvaing> speaking of which, i owe anne a list of our supported HTML encoding labels and all synonyms
  264. # [19:08] <sylvaing> later...
  265. # [19:08] <TabAtkins> Cool but disappointing. Coding is awesome.
  266. # [19:09] <TabAtkins> later
  267. # [19:09] <sylvaing> yeah yeah, i know i'm not one of the cool kids. no need to rub it in....
  268. # [19:10] <TabAtkins> ;_;
  269. # [19:11] <fantasai> sylvaing: I have a friend who's been trying to get a PM job for awhile, and can't. So whether you're one of the cool kids depends on your perspective. :)
  270. # [19:12] <anne> sylvaing, making that list qualifies for being cool :)
  271. # [19:13] <sylvaing> anne, lol. the most exciting part of that was writing a perl script to flatten the IANA list. got my heartbeat to 67.
  272. # [19:14] <sylvaing> fantasai, you'll have to tell me more about how/why they can't...
  273. # [19:14] <anne> sylvaing, try Python: http://xkcd.com/353/
  274. # [19:16] <sylvaing> yay python
  275. # [19:16] <sylvaing> ok. now i'm really off to work on that list. later all.
  276. # [19:17] * fantasai tried Python and was not impressed
  277. # [19:18] <dbaron> I was; I got to the point of preferring python to perl pretty quickly, even though I still probably know more perl.
  278. # [19:18] <TabAtkins> I've never used it, but it looks fine. The lack of a proper lambda turns me off.
  279. # [19:18] <fantasai> The lack of *static typing* drives me crazy.
  280. # [19:19] <fantasai> It makes it ridiculously hard to figure out what datatype any variable represents
  281. # [19:19] <fantasai> Have to read the function's implementation
  282. # [19:19] <TabAtkins> Static typing is the devil. >_<
  283. # [19:19] <fantasai> dig seven layers deep
  284. # [19:19] <fantasai> to try to figure out what the stupid function is supposed to return
  285. # [19:19] <fantasai> argg!!
  286. # [19:19] <fantasai> <-- was reading the mercurial codebase
  287. # [19:19] <TabAtkins> That's what comments are for.
  288. # [19:20] <fantasai> <-- would have rather been reading karnaze's border-collapse code
  289. # [19:20] * TabAtkins likes javascript, because it's almost lisp. Just missing macros, really (which is horrible, but shrug).
  290. # [19:21] <fantasai> Comments would help, but since they aren't required... they don't get added
  291. # [19:22] * Parts: bradk (bradk@166.205.130.206)
  292. # [19:22] * fantasai would really appreciate "this param is a string", "this param is a foo struct"
  293. # [20:40] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  294. # [20:40] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30)
  295. # [21:06] * Quits: myakura (myakura@125.175.31.40) (Quit: Leaving...)
  296. # [22:05] <fantasai> TabAtkins: btw, if you're not sure who a speaker is, just write it in as ?: and someone will fill that in on IRC
  297. # [22:05] <TabAtkins> Ah, thanks.
  298. # [22:05] <fantasai> David's good at filling in gaps like that :)
  299. # [22:05] * fantasai relied on him heavily during joint meetings especially
  300. # [22:31] <annevk> test suite deadline?
  301. # [22:32] <annevk> to be honest i've been awaiting answers to my review of the Microsoft test suite before looking into CSS 2.1 tests again
  302. # [22:32] * Joins: Curt` (curt@75.10.136.19)
  303. # [23:05] <fantasai> annevk: btw, I just got a request for the text-overflow behavior you wanted
  304. # [23:06] <fantasai> annevk: if MSFT is willing to rehaul their implementation, I think we can get what Opera wants
  305. # [23:06] <fantasai> annevk: because hyatt also doesn't like the current definition
  306. # [23:29] <sylvaing> text-overflow ?
  307. # [23:32] <annevk> fantasai, we're currently implementing some proprietary thingy
  308. # [23:32] <fantasai> sylvaing: yeah
  309. # [23:32] <annevk> our text-overflow:ellipsis should match Firefox/MSIE
  310. # [23:32] <fantasai> annevk: I don't think Mozilla implements it
  311. # [23:33] <fantasai> annevk: WebKit?
  312. # [23:33] <annevk> prolly WebKit then, yes
  313. # [23:33] <fantasai> sylvaing: Hyatt's pointed out a number of silly design decisions and shortcomings in the impl
  314. # [23:33] <fantasai> sylvaing: he seems to be willing to rework the property, if you guys are okay with that
  315. # [23:33] <annevk> I think we did make a change to make the ellipsis disappear on scrolling
  316. # [23:34] <fantasai> sylvaing: then we can come up with some more reasonable multiline behavior
  317. # [23:34] <annevk> forgot the exact details
  318. # [23:34] <fantasai> sylvaing: and not require as many properties to trigger the behavior
  319. # [23:34] <annevk> and no longer really care since whatever I had to deal with went away :)
  320. # [23:34] <fantasai> Mozilla cares
  321. # [23:34] <fantasai> since we want to implement it
  322. # [23:35] <fantasai> and it's currently .. mostly undefined
  323. # [23:35] <sylvaing> fantasai: I think we're always ok to chat about it. is there a link to a post that i missed ?
  324. # [23:36] <annevk> fantasai, email ěyvind Stenhaug <oyvinds@opera.com>
  325. # [23:36] <annevk> fantasai, he should have all the details
  326. # [23:39] <sylvaing> annevk: is the encoding data what you wanted ?
  327. # [23:40] <fantasai> sylvaing: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/css/20090805#l-303
  328. # [23:41] <sylvaing> fantasai: oh yes, remember that one. thanks !
  329. # [23:44] <annevk> sylvaing, yeah, although I don't quite get how IE does not treat ISO-8859-1 and Windows-1252 as the same encoding for decoding purposes unlike all other browsers
  330. # [23:44] <annevk> sylvaing, but I guess the details are in the code pages
  331. # [23:48] <sylvaing> right
  332. # [23:51] <sylvaing> although they don't coincide across their entire range
  333. # [23:51] <sylvaing> i.e. windows-1252 is a superset
  334. # [23:52] <annevk> not in other browsers
  335. # [23:52] <annevk> well, not for decoding anyway
  336. # [23:53] <annevk> but this will certainly help
  337. # [23:56] <sylvaing> well, strictly speaking that's not correct
  338. # [23:57] <annevk> what bit?
  339. # [23:57] <sylvaing> but given that windows-1252 was never formally standardized and no one probably wants to build support for it on mac, linux etc, it made sense to map it. things will and do get weird if you decode characters in the non-overlapping range
  340. # [23:57] <sylvaing> decoding windows-1252 as ISO-8859-1 will fail for some codepoints
  341. # [23:57] <sylvaing> range 0x80-0x9F
  342. # [23:57] <annevk> browsers do it the other way around ;)
  343. # [23:58] <sylvaing> ?
  344. # [23:58] <annevk> when a page says iso-8859-1 browsers decode it using windows-1252
  345. # [23:58] <annevk> they also need to encode as windows-1252 for form submission etc.
  346. # [23:59] <annevk> i'm not sure where this requirement has come from, but all non-IE browsers do it this way
  347. # Session Close: Thu Sep 10 00:00:00 2009

The end :)