/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2007-09-29 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Sep 29 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  7. # [00:26] <anne> hsivonen, http://validator.nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F1999%2Fxhtml%2F doesn't give any validation results?
  8. # [00:26] <anne> hsivonen, as in, it's unclear whether it "passed" or "failed"
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  11. # [00:40] <anne> fun, the XHTML role module goes to Last Call this Monday or so...
  12. # [01:09] <hsivonen> anne: yeah, fallout from the Great ErrorHandler rewrite. will fix
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  14. # [01:22] <anne> Hixie, maybe you can reuse the server sent events syntax?
  15. # [01:23] * Dashiva points anne over to #whatwg for ongoing discussion
  16. # [01:23] <Hixie> anne: not in its entirety, but one of the suggestions in the spec is similar, yes
  17. # [01:23] * anne read that, but can't really contribute directly on #whatwg
  18. # [01:25] <anne> yeah, although it uses different comment syntax...
  19. # [01:26] <anne> i suppose it doesn't really matter, those formats are quite trivial to parse anyway
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  84. # [17:59] <hsivonen> anne: Re: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/html-wg/20070926#l-507 : I suggested doing inheritance chain fallback the same way CSS does font family fallback: by specifying a list of values in the order of preference and with a well-known value terminating the list
  85. # [18:03] <hsivonen> anne: interesting how alike we think. my reaction to extensions was also that they need to come from AT vendors--not site developers to be any good
  86. # [18:03] <anne> fallback might work
  87. # [18:04] <anne> role="foo bar" with bar being the fallback for foo...
  88. # [18:05] <hsivonen> anne: yes, that's what I meant
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  98. # [19:03] <hsivonen> source locations are now linkified when showing source
  99. # [19:03] <hsivonen> anne: ^
  100. # [19:08] <anne> I tried it on google.com, :target might be nice
  101. # [19:19] <hsivonen> anne: I intend to do the setTimeout thing to watch for hashchange an generate a class-based rule instead
  102. # [19:19] <hsivonen> :target doesn't handle ranges split across lines
  103. # [19:20] <hsivonen> but classes do
  104. # [19:24] <anne> fair point
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  115. # [20:28] <anne> hmm, sees the XHTML2 WG is heavily forking the XHTML namespace
  116. # [20:29] <hsivonen> anne: URL?
  117. # [20:29] <anne> http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/xhtml/20070926#l-96
  118. # [20:32] <hsivonen> Using a # version of the URI for XHTML2 WFM
  119. # [20:33] <anne> i don't think it's about that
  120. # [20:33] <anne> it redefines what rel= values are
  121. # [20:38] <anne> oh well, doesn't matter I suppose
  122. # [20:43] <hsivonen> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/primer/20070918/ turns rel='' over to qNames in content
  123. # [20:48] <anne> yeah
  124. # [20:48] <anne> all very evil
  125. # [20:48] <anne> it's a bit of a mess that they're playing with XHTML1 too
  126. # [20:49] * hsivonen smiles at "the mysterious and cabalistic Global Multimedia Protocols Group" at http://evan.prodromou.name/RDFa_vs_microformats
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  133. # [22:49] * gsnedders wonders what's happening about the heartbeat requirement (and our extension) and the fact that we're overdue
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  135. # [23:02] <anne> iirc danc is waiting for mjs to wrap up another round of feedback on hdp and will then push to hdp
  136. # [23:02] <anne> s/push to hdp/push to publish hdp
  137. # [23:02] <schepers> hdp?
  138. # [23:03] <schepers> oh
  139. # [23:03] <schepers> nm
  140. # [23:06] <gsnedders> anne: you know what he's planning for the rest?
  141. # [23:07] <anne> no
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  149. # [23:22] <anne> hsivonen, jgraham, maybe use a list for stuff like http://www.pointerklubben.se/stamtavla.asp?Id=S35236/97 ? i suppose the problem is that it doesn't give the desired presentional effect, but it does come a lot closer to a tree
  150. # [23:23] <anne> jgraham, as for tables without <th>, implying <th> there seems more harmful than it can do good as presentional tables are far more common
  151. # [23:24] <anne> (Speaking of layout tables, some group invented role=presentation to encourage people to use them in a legit way, isn't that awesome?)
  152. # [23:31] <Dashiva> And there was discussion on www-html for <layouttable> or similar
  153. # [23:33] <anne> it's beyond me how increasing the number of options to do things wrong is going to solve the actual problem here
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  155. # [23:36] <mjs> CSS tables don't work in IE, and are kind of hard to use even when they work
  156. # [23:36] <mjs> some things can be done with floats or positioning instead, but it's often harder to achieve the same layout
  157. # [23:37] <mjs> so I can understand why people are unsatisfied with current options
  158. # [23:37] <Dashiva> You can't let people design using grids for a few years and then say "Ha-ha, stupid, now you're only allowed to use this limited content model!"
  159. # [23:39] <anne> yeah, CSS has been kind of bad at addressing flex layouts and such
  160. # [23:39] <Philip> CSS tables seem pretty useless since you can't do colspan/rowspan
  161. # [23:39] <anne> you can nest them :)
  162. # [23:40] <Dashiva> I'm sure you can create some incredibly evil way of generating containing tables with :before and :after :)
  163. # [23:40] <anne> but yeah, the CSS WG should prolly have worked on something like the XUL layout model or something in that direction
  164. # [23:40] <anne> Dashiva, only in theory
  165. # [23:41] <anne> (and actually, some people of the CSS WG have, but it never went further because it had to be integrated into the box model, which became hard to figure out)
  166. # [23:41] <anne> (aiui)
  167. # [23:41] <Dashiva> What ever happened to that css3 module we were all waiting for...
  168. # [23:43] <anne> I think some people in the CSS WG believe more in http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-grid/ but I'm not really convinced that's a particularly great solution as it encourages layout designed for certain page sizes
  169. # [23:43] <anne> s/page sizes/screen sizes/
  170. # [23:43] <Dashiva> yeah
  171. # [23:44] <anne> but the current 'position' and 'float' hacks aren't great either
  172. # Session Close: Sun Sep 30 00:00:00 2007

The end :)