/irc-logs / w3c / #html-wg / 2009-01-16 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Jan 16 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #html-wg
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  32. # [07:36] <Hixie> gah
  33. # [07:36] <Hixie> i hate IE8's "XSS protection"
  34. # [07:48] <Lachy> Hixie, it can be turned off with the http response header: X-XSS-Protection: 0
  35. # [07:49] <Lachy> I don't know of any way to turn it off in general for sites you don't control though
  36. # [07:50] <Hixie> i'm not sending a bogus header to work around a bug in an unreleased product
  37. # [07:51] <MikeSmith> for real fun, one could run Fiddler and proxy all requests through that and use it to inject the header
  38. # [07:52] <Lachy> I didn't know Fiddler could be used in that way
  39. # [07:52] <MikeSmith> plus add deface
  40. # [07:52] <MikeSmith> private deface
  41. # [07:53] <MikeSmith> you can do anything with Fiddler
  42. # [07:53] <MikeSmith> it'll cook soup for you, call you cab
  43. # [07:58] <Hixie> automatically remove indefinite articles
  44. # [07:58] <Hixie> anything
  45. # [08:01] <MikeSmith> heh :)
  46. # [08:01] <Hixie> :-P
  47. # [08:02] <MikeSmith> indefinite articles are not so useful anyway. Japanese gets by fine without them
  48. # [08:03] <Hixie> norwegian gets by without a different between "i eat burgers" and "i am eating burgers", but that doesn't mean they're not useful :-)
  49. # [08:03] <Hixie> a difference
  50. # [08:05] <Lachy> Hixie, what's the norwegian phrase for that?
  51. # [08:06] <Lachy> "Jeg spiser [burgers]"
  52. # [08:07] <Lachy> oh, I got close. Google translate says it's Jeg spiser burgere
  53. # [08:09] <Hixie> something like that
  54. # [08:24] <hsivonen> DanC: is it expected to be OK for the ID for Origin to have a normative reference to HTML5?
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  84. # [13:58] <Lachy> Julian, are you aware of any other tools, besides those using XSLT, that have difficulty outputting <!DOCTYPE html>?
  85. # [14:09] <takkaria> hmm, where are the minutes for yesterday's meeting?
  86. # [14:10] <takkaria> ah, http://www.w3.org/2009/01/15-html-wg-minutes.html
  87. # [14:10] <pimpbot> Title: HTML Weekly Teleconference -- 15 Jan 2009 (at www.w3.org)
  88. # [14:11] <Lachy> takkaria, one copy is here http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/html-wg/20090115#l-159
  89. # [14:11] <pimpbot> Title: IRC logs: w3c / #html-wg / 20090115 (at krijnhoetmer.nl)
  90. # [14:11] <Lachy> apparently no-one asked RRSAgent to make the minutes
  91. # [14:19] <anne> smedero did: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/html-wg/20090115#l-744
  92. # [14:19] <pimpbot> Title: IRC logs: w3c / #html-wg / 20090115 (at krijnhoetmer.nl)
  93. # [14:28] * Joins: darobin (robinb@88.162.131.13)
  94. # [14:59] <pimpbot> planet: Using HTML5: remove and replace <http://annevankesteren.nl/2009/01/using-html5>
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  96. # [15:38] <DanC> hsivonen, a normative reference from origin to HTML5 would be a little awkward, but it might work out
  97. # [15:38] <DanC> ideally, the parts of HTML5 that origin depends on would be factored out, but I'm not sure whether that's feasible
  98. # [15:43] <hsivonen> DanC: It's not really feasible to remove Origin from HTML5 until there's an ID that references back to "source browsing context"
  99. # [15:43] <hsivonen> DanC: I don't expect browsing contexts to get spun out soon
  100. # [15:45] <DanC> yeah... that stuff has tendrils everywhere.
  101. # [15:45] <DanC> when I realized that, I understood why the spec was called "web applications"
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  105. # [16:13] <rubys> hsivonen: the email you sent to me, can you resend to the list?
  106. # [16:14] <hsivonen> rubys: which one? the latest went to the list: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jan/0169.html
  107. # [16:14] <pimpbot> Title: Re: ISSUE-54: doctype-legacy-compat from Henri Sivonen on 2009-01-16 (public-html@w3.org from January 2009) (at lists.w3.org)
  108. # [16:14] <rubys> that's the one. nevermind. :-)
  109. # [16:42] * Joins: MichaelC (Michael@128.30.52.30)
  110. # [16:45] <Julian> Lachy: any tool that uses the jaxp serializers (which work just fine without XSLT)
  111. # [16:46] <Lachy> ok
  112. # [16:47] <Julian> Lachy: I was *told* that .NET serializers behave identically, but have no evidence of that
  113. # [16:47] <hsivonen> Julian: do you mean TrAX serializer? or does JAXP have serialization now?
  114. # [16:52] <Julian> Henri: see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Sep/0043.html
  115. # [16:52] <pimpbot> Title: Re: ISSUE-54 (html5-doctype-vs-xslt): XSLT 1.0 can not generate HTML5 documents [HTML 5 spec] from Julian Reschke on 2008-09-02 (public-html@w3.org from September 2008) (at lists.w3.org)
  116. # [16:53] <Julian> So it's about SAXTransformerFactory, which has been around since JDK 1.4 (I think)
  117. # [16:54] <hsivonen> Julian: that's TrAX--not JAXP :-)
  118. # [16:54] <Philip> Julian: In situations where you're writing code using a library, why can't you just make the library emit no doctype and manually write the string "<!DOCTYPE html>" to the output stream?
  119. # [17:02] <Julian> Philip: that can work in some cases, but it's messy; for instance, when the encoding is not a superset of ASCII.
  120. # [17:04] <Julian> Henri: SUN's documentation disagrees with you, it says that it is part of JAXP (not that it matters)
  121. # [17:05] <hsivonen> Julian: always use UTF-8 anyway
  122. # [17:05] <hsivonen> Julian: ok
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  126. # [17:34] <Philip> rubys: How did you manage to reply to a post from Philip Taylor (the other one, not me) and say "Phillip Taylor wrote on 01/16/2009 10:37:11 AM:" with the wrong number of 'l's? :-)
  127. # [17:35] * Philip wonders if it's an automatic spell-incorrection tool or something
  128. # [17:35] <rubys> My email client sucks
  129. # [17:35] <rubys> I need to switch from @us.ibm.com to @intertwingly
  130. # [17:36] <rubys> Lotus Notes fills in the name of the mailing list as the person I'm replying to, not the actual person.
  131. # [17:36] <Philip> Ah, makes sense
  132. # [17:37] <Philip> Well, it doesn't make sense that it'd do that, but if it does that then it makes sense that you'd do what you're doing
  133. # [17:40] <anne> the people using Lotus Notes quite often CC the -request list as well...
  134. # [17:41] <anne> at least, the IBM people I suspect of using Lotus Notes :)
  135. # [17:44] <hsivonen> considering how many people are dogfooding Notes, it's amazing the -request thing hasn't been fixed already
  136. # [17:45] <DanC> dogfooding... you mean notes developers using notes? is notes still actively developed?
  137. # [17:45] <hsivonen> DanC: I meant IBM employees using Notes.
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  140. # [17:52] * DanC finishes up minutes from the last 2 weeks...
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  143. # [17:55] <rubys> That's it, I'm switching to intertwingly.net for w3c email
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  152. # [18:24] <Lachy> hsivonen, what do you mean by "dogfooding"?
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  154. # [18:25] <Lachy> oh, wikipedia has an entry for it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eat_one%27s_own_dog_food
  155. # [18:25] <pimpbot> Title: Eating one's own dog food - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org)
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  165. # [18:57] <DanC> done with cleaning up minutes from the last couple weeks... how long did that take? ~1hr. I prefer not to clean them up hardly at all, but once I start, I tend to be kinda thorough
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  167. # [19:01] <pimpbot> planet: WHATWG FAQ <http://intertwingly.net/blog/2009/01/16/WHATWG-FAQ>
  168. # [19:02] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@98.234.51.190)
  169. # [19:02] <anne> DanC, future generations will thank you :)
  170. # [19:03] <Philip> I hope future generations will have better things to do with their lives than read ancient HTML WG minutes :-p
  171. # [19:04] <smedero> well we were digging through the www-* list from 1992-1994 yesterday...
  172. # [19:04] <DanC> heh... I think I mostly just wanted to reward sam for doing the real-time scribing and not have people who are used to minutes by email going "gee... why did sam let us down already?"
  173. # [19:04] <smedero> so I'm guessing people will be still be doing that a decade from now
  174. # [19:04] <smedero> btw, DanC I don't think I have the necessary access to help with minutes cleanup... or I'd tried to offload that task from your plate from time to time.
  175. # [19:05] <smedero> s/tried/try/
  176. # [19:05] <DanC> well, there are 2 ways to clean up the minutes:
  177. # [19:05] <DanC> (1) by chatting with RRSAgent right after the meeting
  178. # [19:05] <smedero> yeah, I did a bit of that yesterday
  179. # [19:05] <smedero> and then got drug into a meeting
  180. # [19:05] <DanC> (2) by CVS commit to /YYYY/MM/DD-channel-minutes
  181. # [19:06] <smedero> ahh
  182. # [19:06] <DanC> only the team can do (2), but all WG participants can do (1)
  183. # [19:07] <smedero> alrighty, well... I'll try to slack far less post-telecon.
  184. # [19:07] <DanC> the 8 jan minutes were taken with very little RRSAgent training so major surgery seemed in order. plus, I did some post-hoc tidying of the agenda. :)
  185. # [19:08] <rubys> do I have access to cvs?
  186. # [19:08] <DanC> not yet
  187. # [19:08] <DanC> and it's not straightforward to give you CVS write access to where RRSAgent puts the meetings, since it's mixed up with much more confidential stuff
  188. # [19:08] <DanC> puts the minutes, that is
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  190. # [19:09] <rubys> no is an OK answer
  191. # [19:09] <DanC> that form where you changed your email address has a blank for an ssh2 key; if you fill that in, I can give you write access to stuff like http://www.w3.org/html/wg/* and all of dev.w3.org
  192. # [19:09] * Joins: aroben_ (aroben@71.58.73.153)
  193. # [19:10] <DanC> of course, then you will no longer have "but somebody with CVS write access will have to do that" as an excuse ;-)
  194. # [19:10] <rubys> Grrr. I went back to that form, and it still have @us.ibm.com.
  195. # [19:11] <rubys> I change it, and save it, and there it is again.
  196. # [19:11] <rubys> previously, I tried to upload a photo, and got an error.
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  198. # [19:12] <anne> #sysreq iirc might be able to help
  199. # [19:12] <rubys> error uploading photo: chacl script does not exist
  200. # [19:12] <rubys> while I see foaf and email, I don't see ssh key
  201. # [19:13] <DanC> hmm... maybe only the team can add those and you're expected to send them by email.
  202. # [19:13] <rubys> http://intertwingly.net/public/
  203. # [19:13] <pimpbot> Title: Index of /public (at intertwingly.net)
  204. # [19:13] <DanC> you could send one mail message to sysreq@w3.org , copy me, with your problem report about chaning email address and with your ssh2 key
  205. # [19:14] * DanC goes afk... Timmy's in the well again...
  206. # [19:15] * Joins: adele (adele@17.203.14.201)
  207. # [19:18] <rubys> email sent. Hope Timmy gets rescued. Wolf!
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  209. # [19:33] <smedero> DanC: Hey, I see there's some movement on ACTION-29 -- go you! http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/29
  210. # [19:33] <pimpbot> Title: ACTION-29 - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
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  227. # [23:05] <pimpbot> planet: HTML 5 Reference Implementations <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/451996/html-5-reference-implementations>
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  233. # Session Close: Sat Jan 17 00:00:00 2009

The end :)