/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-02-21 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Feb 21 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  10. # [00:19] <cgcardona> antonkovalyov: nice work http://jshint.com/
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  14. # [00:26] <antonkovalyov> cgcardona, ty
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  22. # [00:54] <tw2113> http://csswizardry.com/2011/01/the-real-html5-boilerplate/
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  24. # [00:55] <paul_irish> if i had something left to say on that post i would
  25. # [00:55] <paul_irish> but i don't. :)
  26. # [00:55] <tw2113> i'm guessing you've seen it already then
  27. # [00:55] <paul_irish> it's from jan 6th.
  28. # [00:56] <tw2113> ah, it showed up on reddit today
  29. # [00:56] <paul_irish> and he mentions talking to me about it in the post
  30. # [00:56] <Neiluj> paul_irish: https://github.com/keithclark/selectivizr/issues/4#comment_791508
  31. # [00:57] <paul_irish> tw2113: where is it on reddit? can't spot it
  32. # [00:57] <nimbupani> ?g reddit "the real boilerplate"
  33. # [00:57] <tw2113> http://www.reddit.com/r/html5/comments/fp62x/the_real_html5_boilerplate/
  34. # [00:57] <bot-t> nimbupani, No results found for 'reddit "the real boilerplate"'.
  35. # [00:57] <nimbupani> o thnx tw2113
  36. # [00:58] <Neiluj> <!doctype html> IS the real html5 boilerplate
  37. # [00:58] <tw2113> downvoted
  38. # [00:59] <paul_irish> tw2113: the difference between reddit homepage and webdesign as far as volume of comments is incredible.
  39. # [01:00] <tw2113> part of last week had a thread about tables and i swear at least half of the comments supported tables for layouts
  40. # [01:00] <tw2113> i have one recent use of tables but it was just for a tiny snippet of a page, not the whole thing
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  51. # [01:43] <niftylettuce> hey guys
  52. # [01:43] <niftylettuce> and gals
  53. # [01:43] <tw2113> yo nifty
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  55. # [01:53] <andrewjbaker> Progress made w/ scaling sprites for my HTML5 canvas 2.5D landscape renderer. Yay! http://bit.ly/gvBp2N
  56. # [01:55] <andrewjbaker> Performance is pretty good at the mo' too. I wonder whether that's because I have so few sprites or if it's because I render to an offscreen canvas. :-s
  57. # [01:55] <andrewjbaker> Lets hope it's the latter.
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  72. # [02:27] <themiddleman> anyone know how I can get jshint to not complain about missing semicolons?
  73. # [02:28] <themiddleman> other than putting them in :D
  74. # [02:28] <nimbupani> anyone would be antonkovalyov :P :P
  75. # [02:28] <antonkovalyov> themiddleman, we have a ticket for that
  76. # [02:28] <themiddleman> well I know hes all busy being famous and all
  77. # [02:29] <antonkovalyov> so soon i will add an option for that
  78. # [02:29] <antonkovalyov> haha
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  80. # [02:29] <themiddleman> antonkovalyov: oh goodie, then we can use it at work!
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  82. # [02:37] <paul_irish> antonkovalyov: qfox/kuvos would be a good guy to ask for any contributions he wants to give.
  83. # [02:37] <paul_irish> he's really nerdy about parsing and asi and shit
  84. # [02:38] <paul_irish> he hangs in #fronteers
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  94. # [03:13] <niftylettuce> youtube needs multiple signin
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  106. # [04:31] <cgcardona> #fronteers? nice
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  109. # [04:37] <themiddleman> antonkovalyov: do you know about module.exports in node?
  110. # [04:37] <antonkovalyov> themiddleman, hm?
  111. # [04:38] <themiddleman> instead of exports.JSHINT and var jshint = require('./jshint').JSHINT
  112. # [04:38] <themiddleman> you do: module.exports = JSHINT and var jshint = require('./jshint')
  113. # [04:38] <themiddleman> antonkovalyov: ^
  114. # [04:39] <antonkovalyov> ah
  115. # [04:39] <antonkovalyov> hm
  116. # [04:39] <antonkovalyov> neat
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  127. # [05:13] <grantg> paul_irish: Chrome and firefox 4 just got perf boost on the emulator again.
  128. # [05:13] <grantg> Chrome averages 30% CPU usage now
  129. # [05:13] <grantg> and firefox 4 averages about 52% now
  130. # [05:14] <paul_irish> nice!
  131. # [05:14] <grantg> down from 40% and 65%
  132. # [05:15] <grantg> Which makes me lol at jsNES that gets like 40 fps at best on my mac using up an entire cpu core
  133. # [05:16] <grantg> and the webkit web audio build of safari comes in at 85%
  134. # [05:16] <grantg> lol
  135. # [05:16] <grantg> safari is lagging
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  137. # [05:18] <grantg> actually web audio is much heavier than mozilla audio
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  139. # [05:18] <grantg> Since I resample the audio before it gets sent to the output buffer.
  140. # [05:18] * miketayl_r is now known as miketaylr
  141. # [05:19] <grantg> for webkit's web audio only (Firefox lets me have the OS do that instead (insert badly needed feature request for webkit web audio here))
  142. # [05:21] * grantg thinks js GBA could run fullspeed on chrome in the near future
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  145. # [05:22] <niftylettuce> ew 3gb PSD file
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  147. # [05:24] <grantg> ?
  148. # [05:24] <grantg> a wild PSD file appears
  149. # [05:24] <niftylettuce> oh dang wrong window
  150. # [05:24] <niftylettuce> fail
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  152. # [05:27] <grantg> paul_irish: Any word on when crogers will get back from his vacation to fix the broken mess in chrome that is web audio?
  153. # [05:28] <paul_irish> i have no clue
  154. # [05:28] <grantg> :/
  155. # [05:28] <grantg> I feel like I should contribute to chrome just to fix up web audio
  156. # [05:28] <grantg> I should submit patches or something
  157. # [05:28] <grantg> also
  158. # [05:28] * niftylettuce a wild PSD was slayed with shift+ctrl+D
  159. # [05:29] <grantg> almost forgot about that mess that happens to be data uri decoding
  160. # [05:29] <grantg> still a security issue in chrome
  161. # [05:29] <grantg> :/
  162. # [05:30] <niftylettuce> is there a PSD Garbage Facility?
  163. # [05:31] * niftylettuce finds one nearby... BAM
  164. # [05:31] * grantg goes back to playing Alleyway...
  165. # [05:31] <grantg> in firefox 4. :P
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  167. # [05:32] <niftylettuce> grantg: slicker idea on how to build this? http://gregmurray.org/fish/ in 3D?
  168. # [05:33] <grantg> cache the scaled images for the 2D version
  169. # [05:33] <grantg> for speed
  170. # [05:34] <grantg> maybe add some tunes to it?
  171. # [05:35] <grantg> your demo is noming my CPU more than GameBoy Online. :/
  172. # [05:35] <grantg> use mozRequestAnimationFrame and webkitRequestAnimationFrame if not already
  173. # [05:35] <grantg> to optimize how often you actually need to draw out
  174. # [05:36] <grantg> (vblank timing in browsers FTW)
  175. # [05:40] * grantg still needs to land patches to my own shit
  176. # [05:40] <grantg> like adding a webgl path for scaling the blitted shadow framebuffer
  177. # [05:41] <niftylettuce> i've seen fire and i've seen rain?
  178. # [05:42] * grantg wants to give chrome some WebGL love for fullscreen mode with GameBoy Online
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  180. # [05:42] <niftylettuce> I'm grantg's handyman?
  181. # [05:42] <grantg> heh
  182. # [05:42] <grantg> I'm your handyman. :P
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  185. # [05:55] <themiddleman> http://html5homi.es/members/doug.jpg
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  187. # [05:57] <shepazu> themiddleman: http://twitter.com/shepazu
  188. # [05:57] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/fXO1ZR @shepazu: glorious warm day here in Chapel Hill. Working on my screened-in porch, cat on my lap, enjoying the breeze and sun. Very relaxing
  189. # [05:58] <bmease> Any thoughts on filereader showing the result as an empty string? I've copied and pasted the example code from html5rocks.com and get the same thing. I'm using Chrome 8 on Ubuntu if it matters.
  190. # [06:02] <bmease> weird, if I serve it from a webserver and access it from localhost it works fine, but if I just access it from the filesystem it doesn't...
  191. # [06:08] <snover> bmease: this is not weird, most things do not work from file urls
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  193. # [06:09] <snover> you should always dev from a web server
  194. # [06:09] <bmease> snover, can I ask why?
  195. # [06:10] <snover> bmease: security concerns I assume, I don’t have a definitive answer
  196. # [06:10] <bmease> okay, thanks for the info
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  202. # [06:39] <themiddleman> bmease: well just think if you downloaded someones html file and ran it, without the security it could access any file you have permission to
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  209. # [06:55] <niftylettuce> any SVG pros here?
  210. # [06:55] <shepazu> hey, niftylettuce, what's up?
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  212. # [06:55] <niftylettuce> shepazu, any example of work?
  213. # [06:56] <niftylettuce> shepazu, you work on startups/web apps?
  214. # [06:56] <niftylettuce> dang nice bananas
  215. # [06:57] <shepazu> niftylettuce: not anymore, I work for W3C so I don't have time to do contracting
  216. # [06:57] <niftylettuce> nice homie
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  254. # [08:40] <paul_irish> lol niftylettuce
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  256. # [08:41] <paul_irish> you asked the w3c rep who owns SVG about his experience level :D
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  258. # [08:42] <niftylettuce> paul_irish: :/
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  260. # [08:47] <antonkovalyov> haha
  261. # [08:47] <antonkovalyov> nice
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  264. # [08:52] <niftylettuce> not expecting to ask if someone knows how to use an operating system and then find out they built it
  265. # [08:52] <niftylettuce> -.- ...
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  267. # [08:52] <antonkovalyov> dont talk to torvalds
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  280. # [09:04] <okaycool> I can use multiple <header> elements in a document?
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  283. # [09:06] <okaycool> So far I am always wrapping the site logo, search & whatever that goes on top, common to all pages inside 1 header element. So I just directly reference to it in CSS as header h1 a { background:url(logo.png); }
  284. # [09:06] <okaycool> is that wrong?
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  289. # [09:13] <Neiluj> okaycool: yes, you can have multiple <header>
  290. # [09:14] <Neiluj> wrapping logo inside h1 is spoiling h1 on the SEO point of view
  291. # [09:14] <okaycool> hmm
  292. # [09:14] <okaycool> I should probably read up the html5 book
  293. # [09:15] <okaycool> I've already coded many pages that wrap h1 inside <header> [almost always I have 1 H1 on a page unless the client specifically wants to use H1 allover. Then I don't bother]
  294. # [09:16] <okaycool> so I should not be needing to wrap that H1 inside a header again
  295. # [09:16] <nonge_> Would it be 'right' to use <canvas> for an "eyecandy only" animation? … wich would normally be the job of CSS, but canvas-like stuff is not possible with it :/
  296. # [09:16] <Neiluj> I did that too but my SEO team member told me it was pretty bad because h1 is very important for google robots
  297. # [09:17] <okaycool> I se
  298. # [09:17] <okaycool> e
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  306. # [09:27] <nimbupani> paul_irish: w.r.t sans-serif
  307. # [09:28] <nimbupani> i think we are good for now mac users are still not a majority and we cannot target em specifically :||
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  310. # [09:33] <niftylettuce> nn
  311. # [09:33] <niftylettuce> \o/
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  322. # [10:04] <Neiluj> nimbupani: what about ? sans-serif & mac ?
  323. # [10:04] <nimbupani> http://dropshado.ws/post/3365096337/sans-serif-differences
  324. # [10:06] <Neiluj> thx
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  346. # [11:41] <okaycool> nimbupani: I have seen that difference in Opera Mac for sans-serif too. Thanks for the link, it confirms.
  347. # [11:41] <nimbupani> yeh
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  366. # [13:05] <beevi7> what iso code is the "lang" attribute used in html?
  367. # [13:05] <beevi7> <html lang="en">
  368. # [13:06] <beevi7> is it iso 3166-2?
  369. # [13:06] <nimbupani> iso code?
  370. # [13:06] <nimbupani> usually all html docs are recommended to use UTF
  371. # [13:06] <beevi7> i'm not talking about the document encoding
  372. # [13:07] <beevi7> i'm talking about the language (iso) code ;)
  373. # [13:07] <nimbupani> oh the text "en"?
  374. # [13:07] <beevi7> yes
  375. # [13:07] <nimbupani> o right
  376. # [13:07] <nimbupani> its in the w3 internationalization docs
  377. # [13:07] <beevi7> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-1
  378. # [13:07] <beevi7> should be tis
  379. # [13:07] <jeremyselier> http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/dirlang.html
  380. # [13:07] <beevi7> this
  381. # [13:07] <jeremyselier> not sure it's the good one
  382. # [13:07] <beevi7> Any two-letter subcode is understood to be a [ISO3166] country code.
  383. # [13:08] <nimbupani> http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/bcp/bcp47.txt is where it comes from
  384. # [13:08] <nimbupani> "shortest ISO 639 code"
  385. # [13:09] <nimbupani> http://gyazo.com/5328c0f14adabfeb305e899b15cf8cf6.png should make it clearer
  386. # [13:09] <beevi7> ok, thanks :)
  387. # [13:10] <beevi7> all i head to know is if it is restricted to 2 letters
  388. # [13:10] <nimbupani> no its not
  389. # [13:10] <beevi7> but it seems as strings like "en-cockney" are fine as well
  390. # [13:10] <nimbupani> yes
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  392. # [13:10] <beevi7> ok. thx :)
  393. # [13:10] <nimbupani> http://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-html-tech-lang/ is a pretty good read.
  394. # [13:15] <daveluke> hi, anyone here using impactjs?
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  396. # [13:31] <mike5w3c> beevi7: I think http://www.iana.org/assignments/language-subtag-registry is the canonical registry of language tags
  397. # [13:31] <mike5w3c> and/or subtags
  398. # [13:31] <mike5w3c> fyi, validator.nu checks lang attribute values against that registry
  399. # [13:31] <mike5w3c> well, against a cached copy of it
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  402. # [13:53] <beevi7> ah great
  403. # [13:53] <beevi7> thanks a lot
  404. # [13:53] <beevi7> Type: language
  405. # [13:53] <beevi7> Subtag: cs
  406. # [13:53] <beevi7> Description: Czech
  407. # [13:53] <beevi7> isn't it "cz"?
  408. # [13:54] <mike5w3c> beevi7: it's usually whatever has a "Preferred-Value" field
  409. # [13:54] <paulrouget> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=617528#c1
  410. # [13:57] <mike5w3c> paulrouget: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20110221#l-237
  411. # [13:58] <paulrouget> I see :)
  412. # [13:59] <paulrouget> "Roget"... pfff, "Rouget".
  413. # [13:59] <mike5w3c> yeah, my bad :(
  414. # [14:00] <paulrouget> I'm wondering why so many people thing my name is Roget.
  415. # [14:00] <paulrouget> mike5w3c: you're not the first one :)
  416. # [14:00] <paulrouget> no worry
  417. # [14:04] <mike5w3c> my excuse is that most of my ancestors were people who had a shakey grasp on literacy -- hillbillies and French-Canadian voyageurs. I'm of only the second generation in my family tree to finally get an actual education
  418. # [14:04] <nimbupani> all that for a missing U?
  419. # [14:04] <mike5w3c> heh
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  421. # [14:05] <mike5w3c> and my middle name is Laurin, and I'm glad it's not my first name or my last name
  422. # [14:05] <nimbupani> ?w laurin
  423. # [14:05] <bot-t> nimbupani, Laurin - Laurin may refer to: Camille Laurin, Dan Laurin, Georges-Philippe Laurin, Joseph Laurin, Lauren, Laurin D. Woodworth, Laurin Lyman Williams, Laurin Pepper, Legends about Theodoric the Great, Lucien Laurin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurin
  424. # [14:05] <nimbupani> oops
  425. # [14:05] <nimbupani> o good.
  426. # [14:06] <nimbupani> at least you dont have anne's troubles then
  427. # [14:06] <mike5w3c> yeah
  428. # [14:06] <mike5w3c> I'm probably related to all the French-Canadian Laurins in that list
  429. # [14:07] <mike5w3c> I met this guy once who's name was Shirley
  430. # [14:07] <mike5w3c> big dude
  431. # [14:07] <nimbupani> o noes!
  432. # [14:07] <nimbupani> hahaha
  433. # [14:07] <mike5w3c> I told my dad and my dad said Shirley used to be a man's name
  434. # [14:07] <nimbupani> wow :|
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  437. # [14:12] <daleharvey> "I am serious, and stop calling me shirley"
  438. # [14:15] <YammYgirlcoding> I'm trying to have css3 stuff working under IE6, but I'm having trouble with border-radius and png transparency. I tried using IE9.js and border-radius.htc, but they seem to be conflicting. Anyone knows why?
  439. # [14:16] <nimbupani> YammYgirlcoding: http://css3pie.com/
  440. # [14:16] <nimbupani> should be sufficient
  441. # [14:16] <YammYgirlcoding> nimbupani i tried pie, css3 and border-radius .htc and nothing works together with the ie9.js
  442. # [14:17] <nimbupani> whats ie9.js?
  443. # [14:17] <nimbupani> and why do you need it?
  444. # [14:17] <YammYgirlcoding> that makes the float works right under IE6
  445. # [14:17] <nimbupani> is it just for that?
  446. # [14:17] <YammYgirlcoding> fixes a bunch of things, except border-radius =(
  447. # [14:17] <Neiluj> ie6 doesn't have problem with float afaik ?
  448. # [14:18] <nimbupani> well all you need to fix floats for ie6 is display: inline
  449. # [14:18] <YammYgirlcoding> for example, that margin:0 auto starts working
  450. # [14:18] <Neiluj> oh the double margin ?
  451. # [14:18] <nimbupani> YammYgirlcoding: its all trivial you dont need a whole script for that :|
  452. # [14:18] * YammYgirlcoding blushes
  453. # [14:18] <YammYgirlcoding> not trivial to me
  454. # [14:18] <nimbupani> use conditional comments and then set the styles in the css file
  455. # [14:19] <nimbupani> ?g paul irish conditional comments
  456. # [14:19] <bot-t> nimbupani, Conditional stylesheets vs CSS hacks? Answer: Neither! Paul Irish - http://paulirish.com/2008/conditional-stylesheets-vs-css-hacks-answer-neither/
  457. # [14:19] <YammYgirlcoding> maybe if i show the html ?
  458. # [14:19] <nimbupani> sure
  459. # [14:19] <YammYgirlcoding> http://www.escomex.com.br/novo/home.html ( dont mind the ugly layout, not mine )
  460. # [14:20] <YammYgirlcoding> i wanted it centered, png transparency, and border-radius. working for IE6+ and the rest, and mobile.
  461. # [14:21] <YammYgirlcoding> i tried a lot of scripts, .htc and it seems hard have it all and compatible.
  462. # [14:22] <nimbupani> YammYgirlcoding: stan-js claims to include ie7-js
  463. # [14:22] <nimbupani> that would mean you are calling it twice?
  464. # [14:23] <nimbupani> plus u are including DD_Roundies without IE conditional but all other browsers support it :|
  465. # [14:23] <YammYgirlcoding> i tried both,one at time, and still, something from css3 stops working
  466. # [14:23] <Neiluj> omg that's a lot of script in the <head> :)
  467. # [14:23] <nimbupani> yeah
  468. # [14:23] * YammYgirlcoding blushes
  469. # [14:23] <nimbupani> plus html5shiv only is necessary for < IE9
  470. # [14:24] <nimbupani> what is this script for IEmarginFix?
  471. # [14:24] <nimbupani> you can do that in CSS
  472. # [14:24] <nimbupani> i would recommend you put all the scripts before you close </body>
  473. # [14:24] <nimbupani> and not have too many scripts
  474. # [14:24] <YammYgirlcoding> how can i simplity the page and still have all css3 working under IE6 and all?
  475. # [14:24] <nimbupani> you dont need css_browser_selector
  476. # [14:24] <nimbupani> you dont need IEmarginFix
  477. # [14:24] <nimbupani> you would not even need stan.min.js but i dunno
  478. # [14:25] <YammYgirlcoding> i like browserselector, i can make .ie6 .class { otherthing }
  479. # [14:25] <nimbupani> you can do that with the conditionals
  480. # [14:25] <nimbupani> as linked before
  481. # [14:25] <Neiluj> YammYgirlcoding: don't expect to have every css3 features, even if it's "possible", the result could be _very_ slow
  482. # [14:25] <nimbupani> YammYgirlcoding: consider using html5boilerplate
  483. # [14:25] <nimbupani> ?g html5boilerplate @ YammYgirlcoding
  484. # [14:25] <bot-t> YammYgirlcoding, HTML5 Boilerplate - A rock-solid default template for HTML5 awesome. - http://html5boilerplate.com/
  485. # [14:25] <YammYgirlcoding> at least i wanted in IE6 the border-radius, png transparent and margin:0 auto.
  486. # [14:26] <nimbupani> i think it would cut down more than half your issues without any additional scripts
  487. # [14:26] <Neiluj> margin: 0 auto; should work without any hack, just don't forget position: relative and the width and that's it if I can remember
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  489. # [14:27] <Neiluj> png transparent > dd_belated is included with html5boilerplate
  490. # [14:27] <Neiluj> border-radius > pie is the best I know
  491. # [14:27] <Neiluj> if you need double class, I recommend selectivizr
  492. # [14:27] <Neiluj> ?g selectivizr @ YammYgirlcoding
  493. # [14:27] <bot-t> YammYgirlcoding, Selectivizr - CSS3 pseudo-class and attribute selectors for IE 6-8 - http://selectivizr.com/
  494. # [14:28] <nimbupani> i would suggest you not look for pixel perfection in your websites across all browsers YammYgirlcoding
  495. # [14:28] <YammYgirlcoding> hmm i guess i will disable all scripts and see what happens
  496. # [14:28] <nimbupani> but if your client views the site only in IE6 then by all means try to fix it :)
  497. # [14:31] <YammYgirlcoding> thats the problem. there will be a big group using IE6 :/
  498. # [14:32] <mike5w3c> nimbupani: btw, maybe it's time for a follow-up to http://nimbupani.com/what-web-designers-need-to-know-about-epub.html -- except about EPUB 3
  499. # [14:32] <nimbupani> o yeah
  500. # [14:32] <nimbupani> all cool shit is happening there, i have not investigated it yet :/
  501. # [14:32] <mike5w3c> yeah
  502. # [14:32] <nimbupani> its all in my instapaper :|
  503. # [14:32] <mike5w3c> t:)
  504. # [14:33] <nimbupani> thnx I think i will spend sometime this week looking into it!
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  506. # [14:41] <paulrouget> mike5w3c: did you guys come to any conclusion about the Per Site context-menu?
  507. # [14:43] <mike5w3c> paulrouget: no
  508. # [14:43] <mike5w3c> my personal off-the-top-of-my-head comment is to maybe have it show some icon next to those items
  509. # [14:44] <paulrouget> ok
  510. # [14:44] <mike5w3c> as an indicator
  511. # [14:44] <paulrouget> mike5w3c: I was thinking about the favicon
  512. # [14:44] <paulrouget> but the spec allows menu to have a specific icon
  513. # [14:44] <paulrouget> so they can overide this icon
  514. # [14:45] <mike5w3c> ah
  515. # [14:45] <paulrouget> mike5w3c: see the icons here: http://i.imgur.com/f87G4.png
  516. # [14:45] <mike5w3c> I didn't actually know the spec provided for adding icons to the context menu items
  517. # [14:46] <mike5w3c> ah
  518. # [14:46] <mike5w3c> I see what you mean
  519. # [14:46] <mike5w3c> yeah, those are useful
  520. # [14:46] <paulrouget> mike5w3c: see icon: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/commands.html#concept-command
  521. # [14:47] <mike5w3c> right -- I just hadn't been thinking the processing expectations for the context menu are that those would necessarily also be displayed there
  522. # [14:47] <mike5w3c> anyway, next thought is: a different font or background
  523. # [14:49] <paulrouget> hmmm
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  529. # [14:58] <mike5w3c> paulrouget: well, short of that all I can think of is a "This site wants to add items to your context menu." dialog
  530. # [14:58] <mike5w3c> and I don't think you want that
  531. # [14:59] <paulrouget> mike5w3c: no. Not another popup :)
  532. # [14:59] <mike5w3c> yeah
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  551. # [16:00] <Michael> So which is valid? Or both? <br /> <br/>
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  554. # [16:01] <Michael> oh http://stackoverflow.com/questions/462741/space-before-closing-slash
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  562. # [16:16] <tw2113> morning all
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  569. # [16:23] <Emw> not sure if this is off-topic, but: why are there no svg performance benchmarking tools?
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  571. # [16:26] <Emw> with the presumable up-tick in svg adoption because of better svg support in the upcoming crop of browsers, it's odd to me that there isn't already any kind of svg performance benchmarking tool analogous to, say, sunspider for javascript benchmarking
  572. # [16:29] <Michael> I suppose YSlow could be used for that
  573. # [16:29] <Emw> how so?
  574. # [16:30] <Emw> oh, ya, hrm
  575. # [16:30] <Michael> Compare the load times between 2 equal pages (except 1 has svg, 1 has png)
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  577. # [16:32] <Emw> Michael: i would be looking more for cross-browser performance differences, i think
  578. # [16:32] <Michael> Can you use jMeter for that?
  579. # [16:32] <Emw> (the folks on #svg just suggested SVGChamber, http://www.svgopen.org/2007/papers/BrowserPerformanceMeasures/index.html)
  580. # [16:33] <Michael> ah, cool!
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  602. # [17:04] <digitalfiz> paul_irish, you there?
  603. # [17:04] <digitalfiz> im checking the boilerplate in the w3c validator
  604. # [17:05] <nimbupani> whats up with that digitalfiz
  605. # [17:05] <nimbupani> the IE meta compat will throw invalud
  606. # [17:05] <nimbupani> invalid*
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  608. # [17:05] <digitalfiz> yeah
  609. # [17:05] <digitalfiz> whys that
  610. # [17:05] <nimbupani> ?g groups.googlegroup.com boilerplate validation
  611. # [17:05] <bot-t> nimbupani, Cufon + HTML5 Boilerplate + Jquery + Modernizr, IE8 and IE7 ... - http://groups.google.com/group/cufon/browse_thread/thread/68be378cd48fb74b
  612. # [17:05] <digitalfiz> Line 10, Column 65: Bad value X-UA-Compatible for attribute http-equiv on element meta.
  613. # [17:06] <nimbupani> no no botty
  614. # [17:06] <nimbupani> http://groups.google.com/group/html5boilerplate/browse_thread/thread/6d1b6b152aca8ed2
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  617. # [17:07] <digitalfiz> ah im using the htaccess so i dont evene need it
  618. # [17:08] <digitalfiz> This document was successfully checked as HTML5!
  619. # [17:08] <nimbupani> woo
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  678. # [18:49] <Michael> Anyone in Central Florida interested in a web development job with The Walt Disney Company?
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  698. # [20:07] <YammYgirlcoding> guys. I'm using html5 here and hit the footer problem:how can i have it sticked to the bottom?
  699. # [20:08] <paul_irish> ?g sticky footer
  700. # [20:08] <bot-t1> paul_irish, A CSS Sticky Footer - http://ryanfait.com/sticky-footer/
  701. # [20:08] <YammYgirlcoding> yes but it got to work with <footer> tag...
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  704. # [20:08] <YammYgirlcoding> and html5
  705. # [20:08] <YammYgirlcoding> i have no containers divs...
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  708. # [20:09] <paul_irish> it's possible to adapt
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  711. # [20:09] <paul_irish> aw drule is back.
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  714. # [20:10] * tw2113 grabs a bottle for a drinking game
  715. # [20:10] <nimbupani> YammYgirlcoding: when you have time consider going through http://bit.ly/webed101
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  729. # [20:31] <croby> hey everyone - i'm trying to figure out what the best way to 'link to javascript action' is -- href="javascript:;", href="#", or don't use a link at all and assign the action to the click event on something like a span -- any opinions (or authoritative answers) on this?
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  731. # [20:34] <croby> this is exclusively when the 'javascript action' doesn't include a document.location change - so there is no real URL that it should be linking to in the href
  732. # [20:34] <nimbupani> ideally dont link
  733. # [20:35] <croby> so use a click handler on something like a span? would span even be the correct element, or does that not really matter
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  735. # [20:35] <nimbupani> a click handler on the element you want to interact with
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  787. # [21:54] <jetienne> some guy just registered html6.fr :)
  788. # [21:54] <jetienne> im not sure why but it makes me laught :)
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  802. # [22:13] <niftylettuce> soo much goodness baked in by default
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  817. # [23:15] <tw2113> gah! my boss isn't thinking progressively, he wants us to target mockups very closely to mockups, sans some care for IE6
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  831. # [23:31] <DMGregory> I'm having some trouble with WebGL buffer lengths - might anyone have a moment to enlighten me?
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  836. # [23:45] <IanWizard> Anyone who will give me a part time (telecommute) job, internship, anything, doing something vaguely technical. I'll work for next to nothing, and I'll work the first week free.
  837. # [23:50] <paul_irish> DMGregory: there is a #webgl channel that might be more helpful? though i dont see much activity there..
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  839. # [23:51] <DMGregory> Ahh, thanks! Snover recommended I try here, so to be honest I hadn't checked the full channel list. I'll try now!
  840. # [23:51] <paul_irish> npnp
  841. # [23:51] <paul_irish> IanWizard: whatcha good at
  842. # [23:52] <IanWizard> paul_irish, I've been freelance web development for a few years now.
  843. # [23:52] <nimbupani> ?g IanWizard
  844. # [23:52] <paul_irish> croby: you live in seattle now?
  845. # [23:52] <bot-t> nimbupani, Sir Ian, Sir Ian, Sir Ian--WIZARD! YOU SHALL NOT PASS!--Sir Ian ... - http://www.facebook.com/pages/Sir-Ian-Sir-Ian-Sir-Ian-WIZARD-YOU-SHALL-NOT-PASS-Sir-Ian-Sir-Ian/481321025523
  846. # [23:52] <nimbupani> :)
  847. # [23:52] <croby> hey paul_irish - i do, moved out here last June
  848. # [23:52] <paul_irish> i thought you were boston and then SF
  849. # [23:52] <IanWizard> nimbupani, different guy.
  850. # [23:52] <paul_irish> lol
  851. # [23:52] <nimbupani> VERY
  852. # [23:53] <croby> paul_irish: was in Boston, never to SF though :)
  853. # [23:53] <paul_irish> ok ok
  854. # [23:53] <croby> are you in SF now?
  855. # [23:53] <paul_irish> i live in SF but i'm in austin, tx at the moment
  856. # [23:53] <croby> oh nice
  857. # [23:53] <IanWizard> I'm from Dallas
  858. # [23:54] <paul_irish> also.. to answer your question... i do javascript:print() for print page links.. but otherwise a <button> would be a bit more accessible than <a href=# or clicking a span
  859. # [23:54] <IanWizard> Just moved to Seattle though.
  860. # [23:55] <IanWizard> paul_irish, happen to know of a good site for telecommute web development jobs and the likes?
  861. # [23:55] <croby> paul_irish: thanks for the input - one of our accessibility guys commented on the span not being very accessible too, so i'm still trying to figure out how we should handle non-URL-able javascript links -- would you just remove all styling from the button then?
  862. # [23:55] <nimbupani> how many peeps here from Seattle?
  863. # [23:55] <paul_irish> jsninja.. authenticjobs.. 37signal's gig board.
  864. # [23:55] <paul_irish> croby: yup
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  868. # [23:56] <paul_irish> you can manually apply <a role="button" but that seems silly. i would rather destyle a <button
  869. # [23:56] <paul_irish> yeah serious seattle representation in this chan
  870. # [23:56] <IanWizard> paul_irish, that looks promising, thanks. I appreciate it.
  871. # [23:56] <uf0> paul_rish: in general what are you for <input type="submit"> or <button type="submit"></button>
  872. # [23:57] <nimbupani> but nobody meets in Seattle tho!
  873. # [23:57] <nimbupani> like i see no meetups :(
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  875. # [23:57] <nimbupani> SF there is dime a dozen every month :(
  876. # [23:57] <paul_irish> uf0: does <button type submit actually submit a parent <form ?
  877. # [23:58] <uf0> for this example, I'll say yes
  878. # [23:58] <croby> paul_irish: thank you - i'll see what we can do about destyling the buttons -- can they be destyled cross-browser, do you know?
  879. # [23:58] <nimbupani> all buttons can be styled cross browser
  880. # [23:58] <nimbupani> except its a pain
  881. # [23:59] <croby> nimbupani: we use background images on our buttons, which works well cross-browser, so I assumed we could just remove all styling too - figured I'd check at least
  882. # [23:59] * Quits: techrush (~techrush@rrcs-173-198-32-146.west.biz.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  883. # [23:59] <croby> nimbupani: there is a JavaScript meetup.com group in Seattle that seems to meet monthly (in theory)
  884. # Session Close: Tue Feb 22 00:00:00 2011

The end :)