/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2009-03-10 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Mar 10 00:00:01 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  30. # [02:13] <Hixie> I sure had a lot fewer meetings back when Google didn't know HTML5 was important.
  31. # [02:13] <olliej> Hixie: heheh
  32. # [02:17] <gsnedders> Hixie: Wait, they hired you to work on it before they knew it was important? :\
  33. # [02:19] <MikeSmith> Vic Gundotra's demos in Barcelona seemed to have caught quite a bit of attention
  34. # [02:19] <gsnedders> Who?
  35. # [02:20] * gsnedders claims ignorance
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  37. # [02:28] <Hixie> http://www.w3.org/mid/49B4D2B2.7010803@inkedblade.net is fantastic
  38. # [02:28] <Hixie> the summary in particular
  39. # [02:29] <Hixie> that afternoon, they decided that something that would only happen by mistake should be an error, then they decided -- separately! -- to actually update the spec to reflect the previous decision.
  40. # [02:29] <Hixie> then they discussed what to discuss next time they discussed things
  41. # [02:30] <Hixie> then they reviewed a process for reviewing things
  42. # [02:30] <gsnedders> "that afternoon" doesn't appear in that link
  43. # [02:30] <Hixie> and then they decided to publish a document
  44. # [02:30] <Hixie> "PM" means afternoon
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  46. # [02:31] <gsnedders> Oh, was that your summary of her summary?
  47. # [02:31] <Hixie> yes
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  50. # [02:31] <Hixie> i wonder if they had a process for reviewing the process for reviewing the review process that they used to review the review process.
  51. # [02:32] <Hixie> or if they just winged it
  52. # [02:32] * gsnedders thinks Hixie has just proved his craziness by finding this funny
  53. # [02:33] <gsnedders> Slightly mad, yes; funny, not really.
  54. # [02:33] <Hixie> what did i find funny?
  55. # [02:34] <gsnedders> Oh, I thought you meant it was funny by saying it was fantastic
  56. # [02:37] <roc> MikeSmith: of what do you speak?
  57. # [02:37] <Hixie> gsnedders: funny is the wrong word really
  58. # [02:38] <gsnedders> Hixie: I mean it is certainly s/ic/ai/, but without that change you end up debating what you mean by it :P
  59. # [02:38] <MikeSmith> roc: some videos on youtube
  60. # [02:38] <MikeSmith> Vic did a keynote that the Mobility World Congress event last month
  61. # [02:39] <MikeSmith> and another presentation too, I think
  62. # [02:39] <MikeSmith> in both of which he talked about HTML5 features
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  65. # [02:40] <MikeSmith> demo'ed HTML5-enabled GMail on Palm Pre, and Google Maps on iPhone
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  68. # [02:41] <roc> What's HTML5-enabled GMail?
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  70. # [02:42] <gsnedders> "Discussed fallback color and syntax, no consensus so fantasai will edit and collect complaints later." is nice too
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  72. # [02:47] <Hixie> roc: uses the database and appcache features to have real offline mode without using gears
  73. # [02:47] <roc> oh really?
  74. # [02:47] <roc> cool
  75. # [02:47] <Hixie> (falls back to gears for android, iirc, sadly; but true html5 offline on iphone)
  76. # [02:48] <Hixie> hopefully this will actually ship one day and stop being just vic's favourite demo :-)
  77. # [02:48] <roc> do you happen to know if it uses SQLite's full-text search for searching the email store?
  78. # [02:49] <Hixie> not off-hand, but i do know that was one of the features the gmail team was asking the gears team for a few years back
  79. # [02:49] <roc> there's a thread about the database situation on mozilla.dev.platform
  80. # [02:49] <MikeSmith> roc: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/google_goes_html5_demoes_expermental_gmail.php
  81. # [02:49] <Hixie> yeah, i've been watching it
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  83. # [02:49] <Hixie> afk, food
  84. # [02:50] <gsnedders> wow. Hixie away from keyboard. that's impressive.
  85. # [02:50] <roc> we want client-side SQL of some kind, but we don't want SQLite to be the standard for the Web forever more :-(
  86. # [02:51] <gsnedders> How about SQL '92? :P
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  88. # [03:00] <gsnedders> Hmm… http://gsnedders.com/about-the-author is blocked by google safe-search
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  111. # [04:36] <sicking> Hixie, ping
  112. # [04:43] <olliej> yo sicking
  113. # [04:44] <sicking> olliej, word to your mother
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  115. # [04:45] <olliej> sicking: just tidying up my importScripts patch
  116. # [04:45] <olliej> am matching the spec behaviour
  117. # [04:45] <sicking> olliej, cool, sounds like bent was ok with doing that too. Hope we'll be able to do that before ff3.1 is out
  118. # [04:46] <olliej> sicking: it's not dramatically different for our code in webkit
  119. # [04:46] <olliej> sicking: just one for-loop instead of 2
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  121. # [04:47] <olliej> sicking: although my initial pass is doing sequential loading
  122. # [04:47] <olliej> rather than doing it in parallel
  123. # [04:47] <olliej> which is suckful, but makes the aptch simpler
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  125. # [04:51] <sicking> olliej, cool
  126. # [04:51] <sicking> olliej, though i definitely think you'll want to do parallel loading, makes a big difference in general
  127. # [04:51] <olliej> sicking: yeah
  128. # [04:51] <olliej> sicking: but that will make reviewing harder :D
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  130. # [04:52] <sicking> olliej, i think we'll end up doing parallel compilation as well, the code already does that
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  134. # [05:16] <Hixie> sicking: here
  135. # [05:16] <sicking> Hixie, doh, just on my way out
  136. # [05:16] <Hixie> me too
  137. # [05:16] <sicking> Hixie, but i think i'm making progress
  138. # [05:16] <sicking> Hixie, trying to figure out which places there is feedback from parser to tokenizer
  139. # [05:17] <sicking> Hixie, and found something that looks like a bug in the spec
  140. # [05:17] <Hixie> oh, cool
  141. # [05:17] <Hixie> do tell
  142. # [05:17] <sicking> Hixie, hmm.. maybe not
  143. # [05:18] <Hixie> you are toying with my emotions here :-P
  144. # [05:18] <sicking> Hixie, textareas switch the parser into CDATA/RCDATA
  145. # [05:18] <Hixie> right
  146. # [05:18] <sicking> Hixie, but that mode doesn't have special handling for </textarea>
  147. # [05:18] <sicking> seems like it would treat </foobar> the same as </textarea>
  148. # [05:18] <Hixie> the tokeniser knows the last start tag it saw
  149. # [05:18] <sicking> ah, that's what i was wondering
  150. # [05:18] <sicking> ok
  151. # [05:19] <Hixie> see the first paragraph of 8.2.4.4 Close tag open state
  152. # [05:19] <Hixie> Referenced in:
  153. # [05:19] <Hixie> * Full table of contents * 8.2.4.3 Tag open state (2)
  154. # [05:19] <Hixie> er
  155. # [05:19] <Hixie> ignore the overpaste there
  156. # [05:19] <Hixie> 8.2.4.4, anyway
  157. # [05:19] <sicking> yeah, i keep getting those too :)
  158. # [05:19] <sicking> is there a way to turn off scripting when loading the spec?
  159. # [05:19] <Hixie> "and the next few characters do not match the tag name of the last start tag token emitted"
  160. # [05:19] <Hixie> ?slow-browser will turn off all the scripts
  161. # [05:19] <sicking> cool
  162. # [05:20] <Hixie> i'm going to have some better ui that can toggle things on and off soon
  163. # [05:20] <Hixie> once i'm done with this author dom intro stuff
  164. # [05:20] <sicking> cool
  165. # [05:20] <Hixie> anyway, i'm outta here, should be back online briefly later tonight
  166. # [05:20] <sicking> cool
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  185. # [06:59] <MikeSmith> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/ca2d45349d89fdf50e52b93e666365a059053341
  186. # [06:59] * MikeSmith looks around for roc
  187. # [06:59] <MikeSmith> "Enable SVG Animation (SMIL) support in builds by default."
  188. # [06:59] <MikeSmith> wondering if that is for dev builds only, or if that affects 3.5 also
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  191. # [07:03] <kinetik> MikeSmith: dev only, 3.5 is/will be based off of the existing mozilla-1.9.1 branch
  192. # [07:04] <MikeSmith> kinetik: thanks
  193. # [07:05] <MikeSmith> guess there's not much that can be done with it anyway until the actual animation support gets implemented on top of that
  194. # [07:05] <MikeSmith> still, cool to see that it's compiled in by default now
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  198. # [07:13] <jwalden> compiled in but not enabled
  199. # [07:14] <jwalden> gotta flip a hidden pref for now
  200. # [07:16] <MikeSmith> jwalden: oh
  201. # [07:16] <MikeSmith> guess that makes sense
  202. # [07:17] <MikeSmith> animations going to be very handy to have in combination with the existing filters support
  203. # [07:19] * jwalden is too no-nonsense, down-to-earth to care much about animations
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  212. # [08:20] <MikeSmith> jwalden: I'm too lacking in chops to be able to do anything much with the animation stuff myself. just glad it'll eventually be there to those with animation chops/clue to use
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  246. # [11:33] <olliej> sicking: ping?
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  250. # [11:45] <jgraham> "An implementation of ECMAScript is expected to determine the daylight saving time algorithm" Not only is that insane, it doesn't even mean what they want it to mean
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  274. # [14:01] <hsivonen> hmm. the spec looks really weird in an HTML5-parsing-enabled build
  275. # [14:02] <hsivonen> I'm seeing traces of the weirdness in WebKit trunk, so perhaps it's not all my fault
  276. # [14:07] <zcorpan> hsivonen: what's weird?
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  278. # [14:09] <hsivonen> zcorpan: there's a huge gray horizontal rectange at the top and bottom in Gecko+HTML5 parser and at the bottom in WebKit trunk
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  280. # [14:11] <hsivonen> hmm. same problem on trunk without HTML5 parser
  281. # [14:11] <hsivonen> not my fault, then
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  284. # [14:16] <zcorpan> at the bottom is intentional i think
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  287. # [14:26] <Lachy> hsivonen, zcorpan, Hixie added the bottom margin for the reason mentioned here: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20090226#l-192
  288. # [14:27] <hsivonen> ok. the bottom margin makes sense
  289. # [14:27] <hsivonen> which makes me wonder if I get two bodies then
  290. # [14:28] <hsivonen> unfortunately, firebug thinks its incompatible with tryserver builds
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  292. # [14:35] <Lachy> hsivonen, get the Nightly Tester Tools addon and override the plugin compatibility check
  293. # [14:35] <Lachy> I have firebug running in the latest trunk just fine
  294. # [14:40] <hsivonen> Lachy: thanks
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  312. # [16:42] <Lachy> in the HTML5 Reference, should I use something like "hybrid document" instead of "polyglot document"?
  313. # [16:43] <jgraham> hybrid is kind of wrong
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  315. # [16:44] <Lachy> jgraham, how so?
  316. # [16:44] <Lachy> I'm just trying to find a more common and easily understood term that can be used instead of jargon like polyglot.
  317. # [16:45] <jgraham> Because hybrid suggests that it is two different things joined together whereas it is actually more like one thing that happens to be parsable in two differnent ways
  318. # [16:45] <Philip`> Call it an Appendix C document
  319. # [16:46] * zcorpan likes polyglot
  320. # [16:46] <zcorpan> Philip`: Appendix C is nowadays Appendix A
  321. # [16:46] * Philip` doesn't like polyglot
  322. # [16:46] <Philip`> (because it sounds silly)
  323. # [16:46] * gsnedders agrees that it sounds illy
  324. # [16:46] <Philip`> (and it's unlikely that many people will know what it means)
  325. # [16:47] * Joins: bgalbraith (n=bgalbrai@82-69-16-107.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
  326. # [16:47] <jgraham> pollyglot is indeed lly
  327. # [16:47] <gsnedders> Peh! They should read more books by Russian authors!
  328. # [16:47] <Philip`> (and it's easily confused with e.g. a document containing multiple human languages)
  329. # [16:47] <Philip`> jgraham: lly?
  330. # [16:47] * Joins: zalan (n=kvirc@catv-89-133-232-199.catv.broadband.hu)
  331. # [16:47] <Philip`> Oh
  332. # [16:47] * Philip` missed the joke
  333. # [16:49] <Lachy> the only other alternative I have to consider is "mixed document", but I didn't like that as much as hybrid
  334. # [16:49] <Philip`> Could you call it a "combined HTML/XHTML document"? (assuming you don't refer to it often enough for that to be too ugly)
  335. # [16:49] <jgraham> Lachy: Does "(X)HTML document" not work?
  336. # [16:50] <jgraham> or X/HTML or something
  337. # [16:50] <Philip`> jgraham: No, since that means "HTML or XHTML"
  338. # [16:50] <Lachy> I wanted it to be different enough from both "HTML document" and "XHTML document"
  339. # [16:50] <gsnedders> What are you trying to refer to anyway?
  340. # [16:50] <jgraham> (X&HT)ML
  341. # [16:50] <gsnedders> A document that is both HTML and XHTML?
  342. # [16:50] <Lachy> gsnedders, polyglot documents
  343. # [16:50] <gsnedders> Lachy: But what the hell do you mean by that!
  344. # [16:50] <Philip`> You could avoid the problem by not referring to them :-)
  345. # [16:51] <jgraham> gsnedders: Documents that will parse in both HTML and XML parsers
  346. # [16:51] <Lachy> a document that conforms to both HTML and XHTML syntaxes
  347. # [16:51] <gsnedders> All right.
  348. # [16:51] <Philip`> Should it parse to the same DOM?
  349. # [16:51] <Philip`> (or at least close enough)
  350. # [16:51] <jgraham> I don't know if they have to produce the same infoset
  351. # [16:51] <jgraham> (or whatever the right technical term is)
  352. # [16:51] <gsnedders> Philip`: Well, if you're using ElementTree, I hope not
  353. # [16:51] <Lachy> Philip`, it will be close enough. It's not possible for it to be exactly the same DOM due to the way namespaces are handled
  354. # [16:52] <Philip`> like would "<pre>\nfoo</pre>" or "<textarea>\nfoo</textarea>" be allowed in a polyglot document, despite being parsed and rendered differently?
  355. # [16:52] <zcorpan> Philip`: we need conformance requirements for polyglot documents
  356. # [16:52] <Lachy> Philip`, it would be technically conforming, but it would need to be documented as a compatibility issue
  357. # [16:54] <gsnedders> What does "floramors" mean?
  358. # [16:56] <Philip`> gsnedders: It means whatever the author wanted it to mean
  359. # [16:57] * gsnedders blames Nabokov for dying in 1977
  360. # [16:57] <jgraham> But only if the author was Lewis Carroll
  361. # [16:57] <gsnedders> jgraham: What if the author was V. Nabokov?
  362. # [16:57] <Philip`> Presumably it's a reference to http://www.wikia.com/dofus/Floramor_Root
  363. # [16:58] <Lachy> Philip`, I suppose issues like that are the type of things that could be checked by a (X)HTML lint, much like there were some partial Appendix C checkers I remember seeing.
  364. # [16:58] <gsnedders> "One clause in the Rules of the Club seemed to indicate that Eric, though frenziedly heterosexual, had enjoyed some tender ersatz fumblings with schoolmates at Note (a notorious preparatory school in that respect): at least two of the maximum number of inmates in the major floramors might be pretty boys"
  365. # [16:58] <Lachy> though, I don't recall where exactly, and I didn't see too many of htem
  366. # [16:58] <Lachy> *them
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  368. # [16:58] <gsnedders> Lachy: It's Appendix A now! Get with it!
  369. # [16:58] <Lachy> gsnedders, in what spec?
  370. # [16:59] <gsnedders> Lachy: XHTML Media Types
  371. # [16:59] <gsnedders> (Second Edition)
  372. # [16:59] <Lachy> oh
  373. # [17:00] <Philip`> "The little chap saw it as a kind of fashionable club, with branches, or, in his poetical phrase, "Floramors," in the vicinity of cities and spas."
  374. # [17:00] <Philip`> (http://www.ada.auckland.ac.nz/ada23.htm)
  375. # [17:00] <gsnedders> What is it with Nabokov and this word I cannot find a definition of!?
  376. # [17:01] * Philip` presumes that sentence is the definition
  377. # [17:01] <gsnedders> It is sorta
  378. # [17:01] * gsnedders reads more context, and then it makes sense
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  381. # [17:09] <Philip`> gsnedders: You're not meant to actually *read* books to make them make sense
  382. # [17:10] <Lachy> the person who volunteered to help redesign the HTML 5 Reference just got back to me with a few small changes. These element summaries look better now. http://dev.w3.org/html5/html-author/#the-html-element
  383. # [17:11] <jgraham> Philip`: Why read when you can ask on IRC?
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  391. # [17:46] <MikeSmith> http://ajaxian.com/archives/de-crocking-html5
  392. # [17:46] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: 404
  393. # [17:46] <MikeSmith> yeah, I know
  394. # [17:46] <MikeSmith> intriguing title
  395. # [17:46] <gsnedders> Then why the link? :\
  396. # [17:47] <gsnedders> http://ajaxian.com/archives/MikeSmith-is-awesome is an intriguing title which gives the same result
  397. # [17:47] <MikeSmith> well, that MikeSmith one is not actually linked to from teh Ajaxian home page
  398. # [17:47] <MikeSmith> unlike the De-Crocking HTML5 one
  399. # [17:48] <MikeSmith> btw, a more likely title at Ajaxian wuld be http://ajaxian.com/archives/MikeSmith-is-a-jaggoff
  400. # [17:49] <MikeSmith> which wouldn't be totally inaccurate
  401. # [17:49] <Lachy> what's a jaggoff?
  402. # [17:49] <Lachy> Is that a cleaner version of a more common insult?
  403. # [17:50] <MikeSmith> Lachy: I don't know what it means. I heard it on the school bus on the way to school
  404. # [17:50] * Joins: maikmerten (n=maikmert@L985c.l.pppool.de)
  405. # [17:50] <Philip`> Maybe the non-existent blog post is referring to http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-TBPekxc1dLNy5DOloPfzVvFIVOWMB0li?p=978 (which is the worst URL ever, and also the server seems to be not responding)?
  406. # [17:51] <Lachy> are you sure they said jaggoff, and not jack off?
  407. # [17:52] <MikeSmith> Lachy: yeah, I'm sure. They spelled it out for me. while punching me in the face and taking my milk money
  408. # [17:52] <Philip`> Perhaps they were talking about Jacobites
  409. # [17:52] <MikeSmith> or Maccabees
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  411. # [17:53] <MikeSmith> Philip`: that might be the link if it were "Crocking HTML5".. but why "De-Crocking"?
  412. # [17:54] <Philip`> MikeSmith: I presume it to be some kind of pun, based on the idea of making it less of a crock
  413. # [17:55] <MikeSmith> by the way, if you put a quote from Doug into a presentation or e-mail message or whatever, that's called "Dropping some Crock"
  414. # [17:55] <MikeSmith> which you can modify with stuff like "classic Crock"
  415. # [17:56] <MikeSmith> e.g., "I dropped some classic Crock into that presentation for extra audience appeal"
  416. # [17:56] <Lachy> I never had anyone steal my milk money. Sure they beat me up, but never stole from me afterwards
  417. # [17:57] <Dashiva> We didn't have milk money. Parents paid per semester.
  418. # [17:57] <MikeSmith> Lachy: you mean you never got punked either? on the way to school?
  419. # [17:57] * Philip` wants to see Fraggle Crock
  420. # [17:57] <MikeSmith> Crock got some great quotes
  421. # [17:57] <MikeSmith> he knows how to put words together in memorable ways
  422. # [17:58] <Philip`> Like Einstein
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  428. # [18:01] <MikeSmith> OK, I think I will make use of the remaining hours of the morning to sleep
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  440. # [18:40] <gsnedders> Awesome. I got email saying UCAS track has changed (of course not saying how) and the website is down
  441. # [18:42] <jgraham> What is a UCAS track? Is it like a music track? Can you shuffle them or put them on repeat?
  442. # [18:43] <Philip`> Is it like a Mario Kart track?
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  445. # [18:48] <gsnedders> weeee!
  446. # [18:48] <gsnedders> So I've got rejected for everywhere except Edinburgh and York :P
  447. # [18:50] * Joins: dave_levin (n=dave_lev@72.14.224.1)
  448. # [18:52] <jgraham> That doesn't sound like a Mario Kart track. They usually tell me things like "you suck at mario kart". I guess it could be some kind of dance music track in which gsnedders' UCAS offers are read out over a funk-eh beat
  449. # [18:55] <kig_> United Canadian Air Service
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  451. # [18:58] <jgraham> gsnedders: BTW both edinburgh and york are excellent unis
  452. # [18:58] <jgraham> afaik
  453. # [18:58] <jgraham> In particular I know a lot of super-bright people who went to edinburgh
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  456. # [19:00] <gsnedders> jgraham: Edi. has the issue of around half my school going there, which means I'd rather fail at getting away from some people
  457. # [19:00] <gsnedders> jgraham: And York didn't impress me anywhere near so much in terms of comp.sci.
  458. # [19:02] <jgraham> gsnedders: The people thing is likely to be less of a problem than you think, unless it is really a large number of people and you are doing similar courses
  459. # [19:02] <gsnedders> jgraham: On the open day last month I saw two people from the year above
  460. # [19:03] <jgraham> gsnedders: Doing the same sourse?
  461. # [19:03] <jgraham> *course
  462. # [19:03] <gsnedders> jgraham: No, but bear in mind that courses in Scotland tend to be far broader — especially in the first two years
  463. # [19:03] <gsnedders> jgraham: One of them was doing engineering, and doing the first year physics courses…
  464. # [19:04] * Philip` wonders if it ends up being like the college system in Cambridge where you're exposed to a few hundred random people and partly isolated from everyone else, or if it's much more mixed up
  465. # [19:05] <gsnedders> Philip`: Much more mixed up
  466. # [19:05] <jgraham> gsnedders: There were about five people from my sixth form in my year at Cambridge. Two were doing the same course as me. I saw one of them sometimes
  467. # [19:06] <jgraham> (the other dropped out quite early)
  468. # [19:06] <jgraham> (none were at the same college)
  469. # [19:07] <Philip`> I think about a dozen people from my school/year went to Cambridge, and I saw one of them in Sainsbury's once, and I think I might have seen another on the other side of a road
  470. # [19:09] <jgraham> I saw one of the others (if there were indeed two others, there may only have been one) in Saiinsburies once. We chatted as we went round the supermarket, he got to the end, decided that the queues were too long, dumped his basket in the middle of an isle and left
  471. # [19:10] <Philip`> (There was an isle? Was the shop flooded?)
  472. # [19:12] <jgraham> :p
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  476. # [19:30] <jgraham> http://stephencelis.com/2009/03/09/yahoo-for-the-future.html
  477. # [19:30] <jgraham> Seems to possibly be the blog post
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  499. # [21:38] <Hixie> it would be useful if people would review http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/progress/Progress.html
  500. # [21:39] * gsnedders looks briefly then screams at self: "DO NOT PROCRASTINATE."
  501. # [21:39] <Hixie> in particular with respect to conformance criteria
  502. # [21:39] <Hixie> other spec writers in particular would probably benefit from reviewing it
  503. # [21:40] <Hixie> (anne, lachy, zcorpan, heycam, ...)
  504. # [21:42] <Lachy> Hixie, ok
  505. # [21:44] <Lachy> I will do it later
  506. # [21:45] <gsnedders> jgraham: You said you wanted to be able to use distutils for anolis a while back. I wantz email.
  507. # [21:49] * Quits: mlpug (n=mlpug@a88-115-168-225.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Remote closed the connection)
  508. # [21:56] <Philip`> http://weblog.infoworld.com/enterprisedesktop/archives/2009/03/is_version_8_th.html - unsubstantiated rumours are great
  509. # [21:57] <Philip`> I suppose the people "insisting" that Microsoft is going to drop the IE engine and switch to Gazelle have failed to notice that Gazelle is a hacked-up version of IE7's rendering engine
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  514. # [22:17] <gsnedders> uh, Hixie, you aware there's been no emails on commit-watchers for a while?
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  516. # [22:20] <Philip`> gsnedders: There haven't been any commits for a while
  517. # [22:20] * gsnedders wonders what has happened to Hixie
  518. # [22:22] <Philip`> Maybe he's got fed up with HTML 5 and decided to spend the rest of his life working on something more useful
  519. # [22:23] <gsnedders> http://stuff.gsnedders.com/w3c.refer
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  545. # [23:39] <Hixie> 47%
  546. # [23:39] <Hixie> man this is tedious
  547. # [23:39] <Hixie> i sure hope that people appreciate this when i'm done! :-P
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  550. # [23:45] <Philip`> Hixie: Why not commit the work-in-progress so people can review it and give feedback as to whether it's appreciable?
  551. # [23:46] * weinig|away is now known as weinig
  552. # [23:48] <Lachy> Hixie, what exactly are you doing?
  553. # [23:48] <Hixie> Philip`: you can see the work in progress on the whatwg site
  554. # [23:49] <Hixie> Lachy: the "spec views" thing
  555. # [23:49] <Hixie> if you use firefox or opera, you can toggle the alternative style sheet to see the work so far
  556. # [23:49] <Hixie> i'll have some sort of ui for it in due course
  557. # [23:50] <Philip`> Hixie: But I wouldn't want to bother reading through the whole spec trying to guess which bits are new, since I'm lazy - I imagine it'd be easier with diffs to look at
  558. # [23:50] <Hixie> all the new bits are highlighted in green
  559. # [23:50] <Philip`> (but even if there were diffs, I'd still be too lazy to look at it, I suppose)
  560. # [23:50] <Hixie> so it's actually pretty obvious
  561. # [23:51] <Hixie> also there's an alternative style sheet that marks in red all the bits i took out for the author version
  562. # [23:51] <Philip`> I'm still too lazy to even look at the spec
  563. # [23:51] <Hixie> most of the diff is:
  564. # [23:51] <Hixie> + <div class="impl">
  565. # [23:51] <Hixie> ...
  566. # [23:51] <Hixie> + </div>
  567. # [23:51] <Philip`> If you committed the changes then I'd be forced to read the commit email because otherwise it would taunt me continually with its unreadness
  568. # [23:52] <Hixie> the diff is up to 17000 lines
  569. # [23:52] <Hixie> so good luck with that
  570. # [23:52] <Philip`> You should have done it in small batches :-)
  571. # [23:53] <Hixie> i don't think the diff would be a useful way to review this change
  572. # [23:53] <annevk> anyone following public-css-testsuite?
  573. # [23:53] <Hixie> better to set the style sheet to "author only" and see if it works
  574. # [23:53] <Philip`> But I don't want to review it, I just want to complain
  575. # [23:53] <Hixie> oh well then i definitely shouldn't check it in :-P
  576. # [23:57] <gsnedders> Hixie: You shouldn't check anything in around Philip` :P
  577. # [23:59] <Hixie> 51%!
  578. # Session Close: Wed Mar 11 00:00:00 2009

The end :)