/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-06-20 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jun 20 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] <aklein> (looking at http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/history.html#popstateevent)
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  7. # [00:03] <TabAtkins> zcorpan: Mind altering the preprocessor you use to generate the same ToC markup as the other CSS specs? You're using the CSS stylesheet now, but the ToC looks ugly. ;_;
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  127. # [06:19] <annevk> From blink-dev: "Opera, I think, and <not-public>IE, with a developer release, soon</not-public>" <not-public> does not work that way :-)
  128. # [06:21] <JonathanNeal> What's the proper way to mark something like this up? "National Academy of Sports Medicine (NASM)"
  129. # [06:22] <Hixie> what's wrong with "National Academy of Sports Medicine (NASM)" ?
  130. # [06:22] <JonathanNeal> National Academy of Sports Medicine (<abbr>NASM</abbr>) ... or ... National Academy of Sports Medicine (<abbr title="National Academy of Sports Medicine">NASM</abbr>) ... or without the abbr or something else?
  131. # [06:23] <JonathanNeal> Hixie: I wasn't sure if all abbreviations should be marked up in abbr, and if so, how they should be marked up when next to their non-abbreviated form.
  132. # [06:23] <Hixie> there's a bunch of examples in the spec that cover this, see the <abbr> element section
  133. # [06:23] <Hixie> but note in particular where it says "Abbreviations do not have to be marked up using this element" and then gives some reasons why you might want to sometimes
  134. # [06:23] <slowhands> MASM
  135. # [06:23] <slowhands> FASM?
  136. # [06:23] <slowhands> all good things
  137. # [06:23] <JonathanNeal> indeed http://developers.whatwg.org/text-level-semantics.html#the-abbr-element
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  139. # [06:25] <JonathanNeal> Actually, the examples in the link I just provided are very confusing to me.
  140. # [06:25] <Hixie> d'oh
  141. # [06:25] <JonathanNeal> They say the abbr element must contain an expansion of the abbreviation, but then go on to show examples without it.
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  143. # [06:26] <Hixie> where does it say the first thing?
  144. # [06:26] <JonathanNeal> oh, the title attribute must, if present.
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  146. # [06:26] <JonathanNeal> I was wrong. *echoes across the internet*
  147. # [06:26] <Hixie> ah ok
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  157. # [07:08] <annevk> TabAtkins: it depends on what Beacon evolves into I think
  158. # [07:08] <annevk> TabAtkins: and how we design fetch()
  159. # [07:09] <annevk> TabAtkins: I think we haven't solved Array<Node> yet and nobody is working on it.
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  170. # [07:38] <annevk> Sometimes I wish Gmail had merge thread
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  178. # [07:57] <annevk> MikeSmith: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/quips.cgi needs to be filled up with random stuff :-)
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  184. # [08:11] <MikeSmith> annevk: indeed
  185. # [08:11] * MikeSmith tries to figure out how to enable the quips feature
  186. # [08:11] <MikeSmith> enablequips
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  188. # [08:16] <MikeSmith> all right friends, go to town: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/quips.cgi
  189. # [08:16] <MikeSmith> please ignore the part that says "but not obscene or offensive, please"
  190. # [08:16] <MikeSmith> annevk: ↑
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  202. # [08:23] <annevk> "Implement it, submit patches and hope nobody notices." :-)
  203. # [08:23] <MikeSmith> heh
  204. # [08:25] <MikeSmith> annevk: that quote is from tomasf btw
  205. # [08:25] <annevk> https://twitter.com/tomasf ?
  206. # [08:25] * annevk doesn't see it there
  207. # [08:26] <MikeSmith> http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20130614#l-223
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  211. # [08:28] <MikeSmith> miketaylr "form a CG" was a pretty good response to that question too
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  213. # [08:29] <zcorpan> anyone here able to merge https://bitbucket.org/ms2ger/anolis/pull-request/10/use-for-the-toc-in-w3c_compat-since-csswgs/diff ?
  214. # [08:31] <zcorpan> annevk: ^
  215. # [08:31] <annevk> oh man
  216. # [08:31] <annevk> can't we just patch CSS?
  217. # [08:32] <annevk> but uh, Ms2ger will have to do that
  218. # [08:33] <zcorpan> i guess default.css could be changed instead, i don't care either way
  219. # [08:33] <zcorpan> except changing anolis is now sunk cost
  220. # [08:33] <annevk> now I wonder whether HTML says anything about ToCs
  221. # [08:34] <annevk> zcorpan: not sure that's how that argument works :-)
  222. # [08:35] <zcorpan> annevk: what, sunk cost?
  223. # [08:36] <annevk> yeah
  224. # [08:37] <zcorpan> "In economics and business decision-making, a sunk cost is a retrospective (past) cost that has already been incurred and cannot be recovered." seems about right to me
  225. # [08:39] <annevk> What I question is using it as an argument for not doing something else instead
  226. # [08:39] <annevk> As that seems kinda counter to the whole point of the sunk cost fallacy
  227. # [08:41] <zcorpan> ah
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  229. # [08:43] <annevk> MikeSmith: bug the UI team until they get fed up seems also reasonably effective
  230. # [08:45] <MikeSmith> annevk: you mean that longd*sc bug?
  231. # [08:46] <annevk> MikeSmith: uhuh
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  233. # [08:47] <MikeSmith> DDOBR
  234. # [08:48] <MikeSmith> distributed denial of bug resolution
  235. # [08:48] <annevk> ah, http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=DDOBR didn't help
  236. # [08:49] <annevk> it's kinda like climate change denial really
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  238. # [08:52] <MikeSmith> smells like victory
  239. # [08:53] <MikeSmith> all that's missing is the Wagner playing from the loudspeakers on the Hueys
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  244. # [09:04] <annevk> Domenic_: I finally rewrote the introduction of https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/DOM_Levels
  245. # [09:05] <annevk> Domenic_: since nobody else picked that up
  246. # [09:07] <MikeSmith> Hixie: about http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=7990&to=7991 if you're going to say, "optionally with a caption, that is self-contained (like a complete sentence)" I think you should omit the comma and just say, "optionally with a caption that is self-contained (like a complete sentence)"
  247. # [09:08] <MikeSmith> oh wait I guess that's not what you actually mean
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  263. # [09:57] <annevk> marcosc: yo yo
  264. # [09:57] <annevk> marcosc: thanks for the feedback
  265. # [09:57] <marcosc> np, thanks for the awesome spec :)
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  267. # [09:57] <annevk> marcosc: I had this idea about maybe trying out that pair-spec-editing
  268. # [09:58] <annevk> marcosc: maybe in Toronto?
  269. # [09:58] <marcosc> sure, sounds good
  270. # [09:59] <marcosc> annevk: let me know which spec in particular so I can do some background research
  271. # [10:00] <annevk> marcosc: yeah, I need to make this more concrete for it to actually work I suppose :-)
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  274. # [10:01] <annevk> marcosc: I mostly want a better balance between developer and implementer concerns, currently I'm mostly err'ing on the side of the latter so it'd be great to find ways to achieve both
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  301. # [11:09] <SimonSapin> Are the data-* attributes defined on SVG elements?
  302. # [11:16] <zcorpan> SimonSapin: don't think so
  303. # [11:16] <jgraham> I seem to remember that someone wanted them to be, at least
  304. # [11:16] <jgraham> TabAtkins, perhaps
  305. # [11:17] <zcorpan> i seem to remember svg people wanting html features for years but nothing happens from what i can tell
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  318. # [11:55] <annevk> Maybe we should uplift data-* to DOM?
  319. # [11:56] <annevk> Has anyone implemented Element.id / Element.className yet?
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  322. # [12:00] <annevk> Hixie: re promises, now you know what the event loop thing feels like :-)
  323. # [12:02] <jgraham> heh
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  329. # [12:51] <zcorpan> This section is non-normative.
  330. # [12:51] <zcorpan> XSLT processing should ...
  331. # [12:51] <zcorpan> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/templating.html#template-XSLT-XPath
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  361. # Session Close: Thu Jun 20 14:01:51 2013
  362. #
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  364. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  368. # [14:03] * Topic is 'WHATWG: http://www.whatwg.org/ -- logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ & http://logbot.glob.com.au/ -- stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  369. # [14:03] * Set by smaug____!~chatzilla@GGZYYCCCXVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi on Wed Mar 21 17:14:24
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  390. # [15:02] <zcorpan> hmm. i kind of missed that anne got married
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  398. # [15:25] <Ms2ger> annevk: I should find my patch to implement Element.className/id...
  399. # [15:25] <Ms2ger> Anne got married?
  400. # [15:25] <zcorpan> https://twitter.com/annevk/status/347696720173486080
  401. # [15:26] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: can you merge https://bitbucket.org/ms2ger/anolis/pull-request/10/use-for-the-toc-in-w3c_compat-since-csswgs/diff pls?
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  403. # [15:27] <Ms2ger> Where does the w3c_compat_class_toc thing come from?
  404. # [15:28] <zcorpan> it was there before. it's just a flag you can provide when invoking anolis
  405. # [15:28] <Ms2ger> Oh, hmm
  406. # [15:29] <Ms2ger> Fair enough, I guess
  407. # [15:29] <Ms2ger> But could you write a test? :)
  408. # [15:30] <zcorpan> yeah i guess
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  413. # [15:33] * GPHemsley did not interpret that tweet as involving Anne
  414. # [15:33] * GPHemsley assumed a public bathroom
  415. # [15:35] * gsnedders did what GPHemsley did
  416. # [15:37] <GPHemsley> annevk (or someone): Remind me: XSL and XSLT are different things?
  417. # [15:38] <gsnedders> XSL == XSL-FO, typically
  418. # [15:39] <Ms2ger> It's the thing weird Glenn uses to argue for silly stuff in CSS
  419. # [15:40] <GPHemsley> which one is used for styling?
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  421. # [15:40] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: should the .options file use dashes or underscore?
  422. # [15:41] <GPHemsley> zcorpan: underscore
  423. # [15:41] <gsnedders> GPHemsley: XSL-FO
  424. # [15:41] <GPHemsley> gsnedders: So what is XSLT for then?
  425. # [15:41] <gsnedders> GPHemsley: XSLT has the vital T in it — it's merely a transformation language/
  426. # [15:41] <gsnedders> It transforms an XML tree into something else (typically another XML tree, but can be any byte stream).
  427. # [15:41] <Ms2ger> zcorpan, underscores, like in **kwargs
  428. # [15:42] <GPHemsley> gsnedders: Would you call it a script?
  429. # [15:42] <GPHemsley> [ing language]
  430. # [15:42] <gsnedders> GPHemsley: Well, it's Turing complete…
  431. # [15:42] <GPHemsley> hmm
  432. # [15:43] <gsnedders> GPHemsley: I mean, it's basically just a DSL to transform XML trees to other XML trees.
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  434. # [15:43] <gsnedders> It's also amusing because nobody uses it client-side, thus Opera/Presto being broken with IRIs in any transformed document for over a decade before anyone noticed.
  435. # [15:44] <GPHemsley> gsnedders: And how do you use it on a page?
  436. # [15:44] <gsnedders> A PI on an XML page.
  437. # [15:44] <GPHemsley> oh, was that <?xml-transform ?> or something?
  438. # [15:45] * Aww is now known as EvilAww
  439. # [15:45] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: toc-basic fails because the ref has "id=baz" rather than "id=baz?"
  440. # [15:45] <zcorpan> GPHemsley: <?xml-stylesheet?>
  441. # [15:45] <GPHemsley> zcorpan: We know :)
  442. # [15:45] <GPHemsley> zcorpan: You're lucky nothing else fails
  443. # [15:45] <GPHemsley> zcorpan: (Don't upgrade html5lib)
  444. # [15:46] <gsnedders> GPHemsley: Either what zcorpan said, or you use some API.
  445. # [15:46] <GPHemsley> zcorpan, gsnedders: So, there's no difference between how XSL and XSLT are called in a page?
  446. # [15:47] <Ms2ger> zcorpan, yeah, I need to figure that out
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  448. # [15:47] <gsnedders> GPHemsley: I believe not. XSLT is a part of XSL, as is what is de-facto called XSL-FO.
  449. # [15:47] <GPHemsley> gsnedders: Well, that
  450. # [15:47] <gsnedders> (XSL-FO officially is just "the formatting section of XSL")
  451. # [15:47] <GPHemsley> gsnedders: Well, that's unfortunate.
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  455. # [15:47] <GPHemsley> gsnedders: Is CSS Turing-complete, too?
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  457. # [15:48] <gsnedders> GPHemsley: I believe not. HTML + CSS + a user to advance the tape is Turing complete.
  458. # [15:48] <GPHemsley> hmm
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  460. # [15:48] <gsnedders> I don't believe there's any way to advance the tape without user interaction.
  461. # [15:48] <GPHemsley> gsnedders: So XSLT is a script called as a style? That's complex
  462. # [15:49] <GPHemsley> Or, rather, that complicates things
  463. # [15:49] <maximmat> Hey guys, I got a question I was wondering if you could help me with (not sure if this is the right place). I'm using Python 2.7, and when I import the html5lib module, it gives me a " File "C:\Python27\lib\site-packages\html5lib\html5parser.py", line 2, in <module> from six import with_metaclass ImportError: No module named six" error. Any idea on what to do?
  464. # [15:49] <gsnedders> maximmat: Install six.
  465. # [15:50] <maximmat> and how do I do that?
  466. # [15:50] <GPHemsley> I guess I'm not the only one for which the html5lib dependencies didn't install
  467. # [15:50] <gsnedders> maximmat: How did you install html5lib?
  468. # [15:50] <GPHemsley> s/which/whom/
  469. # [15:51] <maximmat> downloaded from the github, installed from there
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  471. # [15:52] <GPHemsley> maximmat: sudo python setup.py install?
  472. # [15:52] <maximmat> on windows, but yes
  473. # [15:53] <GPHemsley> gsnedders: For some reason, the setup.py script doesn't install dependencies
  474. # [15:53] <gsnedders> GPHemsley: On Python 2?
  475. # [15:54] <GPHemsley> gsnedders: Yeah
  476. # [15:54] <gsnedders> Or rather, I believe distutils never installs dependencies.
  477. # [15:54] <maximmat> So I have to use pip install or easy_install or something like that?
  478. # [15:55] <gsnedders> maximmat: You don't have to, but it'll be a lot less painful in general. Otherwise, go download six off PyPI and install it manually.
  479. # [15:55] <maximmat> Alright, thank you so much
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  481. # [15:55] <zcorpan> hmm. i added a test, but if i modify the expected file so it should fail, it doesn't fail, so i guess it doesn't run?
  482. # [15:56] <GPHemsley> zcorpan: You have 3 files?
  483. # [15:56] <zcorpan> yes
  484. # [15:56] <GPHemsley> zcorpan: I usually start by leaving the target file empty
  485. # [15:57] <GPHemsley> zcorpan: Then you can see, for example, where in the test order it falls
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  487. # [15:58] <zcorpan> does the test runner abort on first fail?
  488. # [15:58] <GPHemsley> I don't think so
  489. # [15:59] <GPHemsley> your source file has .src.html, right?
  490. # [16:00] <zcorpan> yeah
  491. # [16:01] <GPHemsley> and it's not running?
  492. # [16:01] <zcorpan> i fixed the toc-basic file so it now passes, and get a different error
  493. # [16:01] <zcorpan> ImportError: No module named w3c_compat_class_toc
  494. # [16:01] <zcorpan> so my options file is wrong
  495. # [16:02] <Ms2ger> I probably should have documented the format...
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  497. # [16:02] <Ms2ger> { "w3c_compat_class_toc": true }, I think?
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  499. # [16:02] <GPHemsley> that's what I was gonna say :)
  500. # [16:03] <zcorpan> and now i'm getting a PASS
  501. # [16:04] <zcorpan> should i commit the fix for toc-basic too?
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  503. # [16:04] <Ms2ger> The weird thing is that toc-basic doesn't fail for me :)
  504. # [16:04] <GPHemsley> Ms2ger: What version of html5lib are you using, anyway?
  505. # [16:05] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: does any other test fail?
  506. # [16:05] <Ms2ger> 1.0b1 it seems
  507. # [16:05] <Ms2ger> test_tests/dfn_data-anolis-spec_collision.src.html
  508. # [16:06] <Ms2ger> Because of the attribute order thing
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  510. # [16:06] <GPHemsley> Ms2ger: Right... with such a new version a whole bunch of tests fail
  511. # [16:07] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: is that the only one failing?
  512. # [16:07] <Ms2ger> For me, yes
  513. # [16:07] * GPHemsley has 6 failures
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  515. # [16:08] <GPHemsley> but I also probably have a later version of html5lib
  516. # [16:08] <Ms2ger> I need to dive in a bit deeper...
  517. # [16:08] <Ms2ger> Probably next week
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  523. # [16:19] <zcorpan> ok pushed the test
  524. # [16:19] <zcorpan> see you next week
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  536. # [16:54] <GPHemsley> Anyone else getting a phantom Google Notifications bell icon?
  537. # [16:54] <GPHemsley> hmm... maybe my Google JavaScript has stopped working...
  538. # [16:55] * GPHemsley shrugs
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  552. # [17:23] <Domenic_> Has anyone ever tried standardizing `outline-radius`? TabAtkins, you seem to know things about CSS specs? Mostly just curious.
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  555. # [17:27] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
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  613. # [19:06] <TabAtkins> annevk: According to Arv, for static arrays we should just use sequence<Node>. I've suggested that in the appropriate thread (about the return value of document.elementsFromPoint()).
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  616. # [19:07] <TabAtkins> zcorpan: Oh, I didn't actually look at our markup. I thought you were just missing a class or something. If it's a matter of ol versus ul, I can just go adjust the stylesheet.
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  618. # [19:09] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: The data-* attributes either have been added to SVG, or will be. It was definitely approved to be so, at least.
  619. # [19:11] <TabAtkins> Domenic_: Dunno. It's just in Moz, I think?
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  630. # [19:44] <Domenic_> TabAtkins: yeah, it's a non-standard Moz thing. It's quite useful though, so was just wondering if anyone had tried making it official.
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  672. # [21:20] <aklein> Hixie: g'afternoon. did you happen to see my question about PopStateEvent yesterday afternoon?
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  695. # [22:32] <aklein> Hixie: filed as https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22420
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  710. # [22:55] <Hixie> aklein: i didn't, sorry, i went off irc for a bit. looking at bug now.
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  715. # [23:04] <Hixie> aklein: commented
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  720. # [23:09] <aklein> Hixie: thanks, responded. happy to discuss here too.
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  727. # [23:22] <Hixie> aklein: if you want prompt responses, here is best for you :-)
  728. # [23:22] <Hixie> aklein: i don't understand the implementation concern. Just implement these objects as you would any other event objects.
  729. # [23:24] <aklein> Hixie: since bringing up this concern started from implementation concerns, I suppose I ought to just explain the main one. it has to do with extensions
  730. # [23:24] <aklein> they operate in "isolated worlds", which have access to the same DOM but with different JS wrappers for each host object
  731. # [23:24] <aklein> that is, different from the "main world"
  732. # [23:26] <Hixie> heycam|away: ping
  733. # [23:26] <Hixie> aklein: ok
  734. # [23:26] <aklein> the trouble comes in if I do new PopStateEvent('popstate', {state: document}) in one world and then handle the event in another world
  735. # [23:27] * Hixie mumbles something about extensions being the problem here
  736. # [23:27] <aklein> I don't entirely disagree
  737. # [23:27] <Hixie> doesn't this problem occur whenever you have an "any" IDL type that transfers stuff from one "world" to another?
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  739. # [23:27] <Hixie> or any callbacks, or any dictionaries, or...
  740. # [23:28] <aklein> yes, it would, I think the ping to heycam|away is perhaps appropriate (for him to tell me I'm wrong :)
  741. # [23:28] <Hixie> oh i need heycam for entirely different reasons, but yeah :-)
  742. # [23:28] <Hixie> i don't think you're wrong
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  744. # [23:28] <Hixie> i think this is a perfect example of why bz wants us to change the web security model
  745. # [23:29] <Hixie> to do checks on every property access
  746. # [23:29] <Hixie> rather than just at specific borders
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  749. # [23:29] <aklein> note, though, that it's not an error to handle an event fired from one world in another
  750. # [23:30] <Hixie> anyway i think your answer is just, you need to protect any case where you have data that can cross boundaries
  751. # [23:30] <aklein> for "organic" PopStateEvents, we just deserialize the object twice, once for each world
  752. # [23:30] <Hixie> by creating new wrappers or whatnot
  753. # [23:30] <Hixie> what do you do if an extension calls showModalDialog() and passes some structured dialogArguments?
  754. # [23:30] <aklein> Hixie: my likely fix for this issue if the spec isn't changed is just to do the cloning for worlds other than the one that created the event
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  756. # [23:32] <Hixie> is there no way for an extension to call into the page's own JS?
  757. # [23:33] <aklein> injecting a script tag is usually the way that's done
  758. # [23:33] <aklein> that obviously doesn't meet all use cases, but it meets a good number
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  761. # [23:33] * aklein looks at what we do for showModalDialog
  762. # [23:33] <Hixie> that's just adding new js, not calling into it, right?
  763. # [23:34] <Hixie> i mean, you can't inject a <script> that defines a function, and then call that function
  764. # [23:35] <aklein> right, there's no sanctioned way for an extension to interact directly with the page's own script (though there are a variety of holes at the moment, which I'm trying to close)
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  768. # [23:38] <Hixie> yeah then i would just say yeah, close each hole :-)
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  770. # [23:38] <Hixie> basically anywhere there's an "any" argument or attribute
  771. # [23:38] <Hixie> assuming all host objects have their own wrappers already, that should be it, though i may be missing some things off-hand
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  773. # [23:41] <aklein> yeah, I'm fine with doing that myself, I just wondered if it might be worth speccing these events differently; events are a big opportunity for leakiness because of how dispatching works. but it sounds like this doesn't sound like a concern of the HTML spec to you (and the consistency argument isn't strong enough)?
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  775. # [23:44] <Hixie> the consistency argument is in the other direction, imho
  776. # [23:45] <aklein> to your showModalDialog question, btw, the dialogFeatures are only set on the global of whatever world called showModalDialog
  777. # [23:45] <Hixie> same with return value?
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  780. # [23:45] <Hixie> (re consistency, i mean, event interfaces don't try to enforce event semantics from one event fired by the UA on all events that use that interface)
  781. # [23:45] <aklein> yup, that's read directly off the global
  782. # [23:47] <aklein> I see. Well, at least that means we just need a rule for what "any" means across worlds and stick with that. CustomEvent is the other place where this came up.
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  784. # [23:47] <Hixie> CustomEvent can probably just be dropped, no?
  785. # [23:47] <Hixie> i think that's dead
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  787. # [23:48] <Hixie> oh i guess not
  788. # [23:48] <Hixie> nevermind
  789. # [23:49] <aklein> actually the biggest leak was EventHandler attributes, which I just fixed in a slightly different way last week
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  791. # [23:50] <Hixie> EventHandler attributes?
  792. # [23:50] <Hixie> oh because you shared them across worlds?
  793. # [23:50] <Hixie> instead of having one set per world?
  794. # [23:50] <aklein> yeah
  795. # [23:51] <Hixie> extensions suck.
  796. # [23:51] <aklein> :)
  797. # [23:51] <Hixie> :-)
  798. # [23:51] <aklein> interestingly, it looks like HTML now requires that EventHandlers be callable?
  799. # [23:51] <aklein> does that mean it no longer supports { handleEvent: function() { } } as an EventHandler?
  800. # [23:51] <Hixie> i forget what the conclusion was on that
  801. # [23:52] <Hixie> but it was a heated debate
  802. # [23:52] <aklein> I was having some fun setting a <button> as its own onclick handler and then giving it a handleEvent method
  803. # [23:52] <aklein> the current spec uses [TreatNonCallableAsNull]
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  805. # [23:53] <Hixie> webidl says "the only known valid use of [TreatNonCallableAsNull] is for the callback functions used as the type of event handler IDL attributes" in HTML, so i guess i'm doing the right thing here. :-P
  806. # [23:54] <aklein> ha
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  808. # [23:54] <aklein> nice, Firefox is following the spec here
  809. # [23:55] <aklein> I wonder if Blink could get away with doing that too
  810. # [23:57] <Hixie> if you can't, the spec is probably wrong
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  813. # [23:58] <Hixie> i wonder what the right technical term is for a property of a JS object that a script adds, rather than one that is under the management of the browser
  814. # Session Close: Fri Jun 21 00:00:00 2013

The end :)