/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-05-26 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon May 26 00:00:01 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  18. # [01:42] <zewt> things that need to die: uuids as random tokens (just use a 128-bit random hex string, avoid a whole silly mess of formatting and bit twiddling)
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  20. # [01:44] <SamB> (... won't that make our COM code slower to match those IDs? ;-P)
  21. # [01:46] <zewt> qq
  22. # [01:46] <zewt> just seeing them in URLs (stereotypically, microsoft URLs) and cringing
  23. # [01:47] <zewt> (they're also completely pointless to use as blob URLs and are just extra stuff to bloat specs, but since everyone's already using them for some reason... oh well)
  24. # [01:47] * SamB is not sure if he's joking or not, but he's heard of optimizations related to consecutive GUIDs ...)
  25. # [01:47] <zewt> consecutive IDs aren't random tokens
  26. # [01:47] <SamB> I know
  27. # [01:48] <SamB> at least, clearly not 100% random
  28. # [01:48] <zewt> (though if you use a, say, 116-bit random token and use the rest as a counter, you probably still get enough randomness)
  29. # [01:49] <zewt> (v4 uuids are only 112 bits random to begin with)
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  34. # [02:11] <zewt> gah, and this same page is navigating on middle click, so when I try to open new tabs from search results it eats the search result window
  35. # [02:15] <SamB> EVILLL!
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  37. # [02:15] <zewt> "sloppy"
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  67. # [04:48] <MikeSmith> Hixie: fyi the w3c bugzilla now supports private tags. Which apparently are just like keyboards except that they're private, so nobody else can see them and no bugmail notification gets sent went you add them
  68. # [04:48] <MikeSmith> *keywords
  69. # [04:48] <MikeSmith> Hixie: however I can't find anything in the UI that exposes them
  70. # [04:49] <MikeSmith> Hixie: but doing ?quicksearch=tag:TAGNAME will show them
  71. # [04:55] <karlcow> yup, MikeSmith I use that on mozilla bugzilla to cater for some of my bugs list with categories
  72. # [04:56] <karlcow> the search can't be shared. as the tag is private it will have no effect for someone else
  73. # [04:57] <MikeSmith> karlcow: yeah that much I gleaned from the docs, but nowhere in the UI can a find a link to my tags
  74. # [04:58] <MikeSmith> karlcow: docs seem to indicate that the tags you create should show up in every page footer, where the saved searches show up
  75. # [04:58] <MikeSmith> karlcow: but I see nothing there
  76. # [04:58] <karlcow> the tags are not visible for me too on Mozilla, just the feature for adding the tag.
  77. # [04:59] <MikeSmith> karlcow: ah OK, that's good :(
  78. # [04:59] <MikeSmith> karlcow: good that it's not just me but sad for you
  79. # [05:00] <karlcow> :)
  80. # [05:00] <MikeSmith> karlcow: I was worried that it might be a results of w3c bugzilla using custom page templates or something
  81. # [05:00] <karlcow> another thing which is practical in the mozilla bugzilla is the tag on specific comments
  82. # [05:00] <karlcow> which in this case is public and shared
  83. # [05:00] <karlcow> and visible
  84. # [05:04] <karlcow> we used it for making a wrapper selecting some specific comments
  85. # [05:04] <karlcow> The wrapper: http://webcompat.com/simplebug/index.html#mozilla/843126
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  87. # [05:04] <karlcow> the bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=843126
  88. # [05:05] <karlcow> the comment with the tag
  89. # [05:05] <karlcow> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=843126#c7
  90. # [05:06] <karlcow> ah interesting the tags are visible only if logged in :)
  91. # [05:07] <karlcow> http://www.la-grange.net/2014/05/26/tagged-bug
  92. # [05:09] <MikeSmith> karlcow: http://www.bugzilla.org/releases/4.4.4/release-notes.html#v44_feat_bug_tags ーNote that when you add a new tag, no saved search based on this tag is created anymore, as you can easily create it yourself if you really need it.
  93. # [05:10] <MikeSmith> karlcow: tag on specific comments?
  94. # [05:10] <karlcow> yup
  95. # [05:10] * MikeSmith checks karlcow URLs
  96. # [05:10] <MikeSmith> oh wow
  97. # [05:11] <MikeSmith> dunno if we have that comment-tagging thing yet in our 4.4.2 instance at w3c, do we?
  98. # [05:12] <MikeSmith> that would be great for tagging all the noise comments in bugs so that they don't show up
  99. # [05:12] <MikeSmith> or conversely for tagging just all the useful comments
  100. # [05:13] <MikeSmith> hmm but only if it actually shows/hides
  101. # [05:14] <MikeSmith> karlcow: I don't see what actually happens when I click any of the "Comment Tags:" links at https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=843126
  102. # [05:14] <karlcow> it seems not in W3C bugzilla. In Mozilla bugzilla, I have in the prefs a "Enable tags for bugs "
  103. # [05:15] <MikeSmith> ok
  104. # [05:15] <karlcow> nothing happens it just tag the comments. The way we used is to cherry-pick some comments for using in another apps.
  105. # [05:15] <MikeSmith> ah OK
  106. # [05:16] <karlcow> You could imagine for example, a spec with links to the issues and the described resolution of an issue is in a specific comment which is automatically extracted because it carries a specific tag.
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  108. # [05:19] <MikeSmith> yeah
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  110. # [05:19] <MikeSmith> there are many cases already where I could have used this
  111. # [05:20] <MikeSmith> karlcow: but the biggest case I can think of is for auto-generating a Disposition of Comments report for last call
  112. # [05:20] <karlcow> indeed
  113. # [05:21] <MikeSmith> karlcow: so I can tag a particular comment as the resolution for the bug, and maybe also some other comment as a statement from the bug report that they're satisfied with the resolution
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  158. # [09:53] <mathiasbynens> annevk: reminder http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20140505#l-608
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  173. # [10:28] <annevk> MikeSmith: so if Glenn Adams keeps doing that, I think we should just have a WHATWG XMLHttpRequest component
  174. # [10:28] <annevk> mathiasbynens: the second link now works
  175. # [10:29] <annevk> mathiasbynens: again, note that these tests are not necessarily up to date
  176. # [10:32] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs78246079.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  177. # [10:36] <mathiasbynens> annevk: i know, i ended up writing my own scripts that generated e.g. https://github.com/mathiasbynens/windows-1252/blob/c234dee4d60da023542cad4d8684428e47692ae3/tests/tests.js#L47-L48
  178. # [10:36] <mathiasbynens> but still, nice – thanks!
  179. # [10:37] <annevk> mathiasbynens: that looks good, I guess you also want to have random order and such of the bytes
  180. # [10:37] <annevk> mathiasbynens: and boundary checks where it switches from outputting bytes / code points to reading from a table first
  181. # [10:38] <annevk> mathiasbynens: and then ideally submit them to the platform-tests initiative
  182. # [10:41] <annevk> http://tech.oimou.com/post/86713933184/xmlhttprequest-responseurl seems like there's a lot of people wanting to detect redirects in XMLHttpRequest
  183. # [10:41] <annevk> I guess I could try pointing them to http://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#atomic-http-redirect-handling
  184. # [10:41] <MikeSmith> annevk: remind me what Glenn did?
  185. # [10:41] <MikeSmith> annevk: ... this time
  186. # [10:42] <MikeSmith> mathiasbynens link?
  187. # [10:42] <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, reopen bugs because they were only fixed in the whatwg spec
  188. # [10:42] <annevk> MikeSmith: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25540#c3
  189. # [10:42] <MikeSmith> ah
  190. # [10:42] <MikeSmith> well that's just obnoxious
  191. # [10:42] <Ms2ger> You remember who you're talking about, right?
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  193. # [10:43] <MikeSmith> wait.. the normal answer would be "me"
  194. # [10:44] <MikeSmith> anyway yeah I'm happy to create an XHR component if needed
  195. # [10:44] <MikeSmith> I'm also happy to remind Glenn that the W3C XHR editors are on record as claiming that they are just publishing a "snapshot" of the upstream XHR spec
  196. # [10:45] <MikeSmith> unless the tune has changed since the last time I was paying attention
  197. # [10:45] <Ms2ger> I suspect a new component would waste minimal time
  198. # [10:46] <MikeSmith> ok
  199. # [10:47] <MikeSmith> well if/when annevk wants it actually created, I'll make it. I seem to remember that last time somebody suggested we create one, annevk said he didn't want it created (yet)
  200. # [10:48] <annevk> MikeSmith: lets see how it plays out I guess
  201. # [10:48] <MikeSmith> k
  202. # [10:50] <annevk> Somewhat surprising that the only noise online about the addition of XMLHttpRequest.prototype.responseURL is coming from Japan
  203. # [10:50] <mathiasbynens> MikeSmith: you mean a link to the script that generated that test data? it’s not public (but i can make it public if you’d like)
  204. # [10:50] <MikeSmith> foolip: thanks for the webvtt idl review & merge. that'ill make plh happy
  205. # [10:50] <mathiasbynens> basically parses annevk’s index.txt files in the Encoding Standard, and then goes from there
  206. # [10:51] <annevk> mathiasbynens: why don't you use the JSON file?
  207. # [10:51] <mathiasbynens> annevk: the index files are normative, but the JSON file isn’t
  208. # [10:52] <annevk> darobin: you keep breaking threading
  209. # [10:52] <MikeSmith> mathiasbynens: nah it's OK. I was just a bit confused. Trying to read several things at the same time..
  210. # [10:52] <annevk> mathiasbynens: except you probably know I generate the index files from the JSON :-)
  211. # [10:52] <annevk> Maybe I should say the JSON file is normative? Hmm
  212. # [10:53] <annevk> http://utf-8.jp/ :-)
  213. # [10:53] <foolip> MikeSmith: np
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  215. # [10:54] <mathiasbynens> annevk: well, it would’ve helped me a tiny bit :)
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  217. # [10:56] <zcorpan_> mathiasbynens: you should have just trusted the json file despite not being normative :-P
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  219. # [10:59] <mathiasbynens> zcorpan_: NEVER!
  220. # [10:59] <darobin> annevk: huh?
  221. # [10:59] <annevk> darobin: your replies in the "Re: Should minimal contentEditable default text input" thread keep creating a new thread in Gmail
  222. # [11:00] <darobin> annevk: well, I'm reyplying normally and I see them threaded here — Gmail bug?
  223. # [11:00] <darobin> (barring that, Thunderbird bug)
  224. # [11:01] <zcorpan_> mathiasbynens: :-)
  225. # [11:02] <annevk> darobin: one or the other I guess
  226. # [11:02] <annevk> mathiasbynens: not sure how to resolve that, I'm taught not to have multiple normative formats
  227. # [11:02] <darobin> annevk: just checked, the In-Reply-To header on my reply to you is correct, so GMail threading is trying to be overly smart
  228. # [11:02] <annevk> mathiasbynens: aah, I know, I'll say that the JSON one is non-normative but is also the source of the data, so if you can reverse engineer it, it's normative
  229. # [11:03] <darobin> Email sucks. Film at 11.
  230. # [11:03] <annevk> mathiasbynens: as in, I'll explain more clearly that the reason it's non-normative is because I don't want to define two formats
  231. # [11:03] <annevk> mathiasbynens: and the other format one due to historical precedence
  232. # [11:03] <mathiasbynens> Almost Normative™
  233. # [11:04] <annevk> Normative Enough For mathiasbynens
  234. # [11:04] <mathiasbynens> it’s fine really, both formats are easy to consume anyway
  235. # [11:04] <zcorpan_> rfc6919 might be relevant here
  236. # [11:04] <mathiasbynens> if this were TC39 we’d just call it Annex B
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  241. # [11:32] <foolip> annevk: why did you keep the from parameter in http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=8647 instead of to?
  242. # [11:33] <foolip> seems like an odd choice if it's only possible to show a single revision diff anyway
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  244. # [11:34] <annevk> foolip: hadn't really thought about it much
  245. # [11:34] <annevk> foolip: I think ideally I just make the short URLs work
  246. # [11:34] <annevk> foolip: and no longer redirect to the longer form
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  254. # [11:57] <foolip> annevk: yeah, that would work too
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  257. # [12:21] <annevk> foolip: done
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  265. # [12:56] <foolip> annevk: the short URL link is a bit useless now :)
  266. # [12:56] <foolip> oh, and yay \o/
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  268. # [12:58] <annevk> foolip: good point
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  271. # [13:01] <annevk> I like how much this thing is simplified now
  272. # [13:11] <foolip> annevk: http://html5.org/r/8640 is a bit useless because it didn't touch source, did the old script show only revisions that did?
  273. # [13:13] <annevk> foolip: I made a change to at least output the change message there
  274. # [13:14] <annevk> foolip: however, for the main page it would probably be good to filter them somehow
  275. # [13:15] <foolip> annevk: git log -- source would be the command
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  277. # [13:15] <foolip> maybe the "--" isn't necessary when you're doing it from a script
  278. # [13:16] <annevk> foolip: was just adding that
  279. # [13:16] <annevk> foolip: well the way I invoke git is kind of hacky
  280. # [13:16] <annevk> foolip: due to an old Python version
  281. # [13:16] <foolip> 'Paths may need to be prefixed with "-- " to separate them from options or the revision range, when confusion arises.' is what the manpage says
  282. # [13:17] <annevk> foolip: https://github.com/whatwg/web-apps-tracker/commit/08e8fa780846f38cd29858e551ca0b7b8fb5b8dd
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  285. # [13:30] <annevk> Oh, the person contributing patches for responseURL seems to be Japanese
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  287. # [13:42] <foolip> annevk: cool, everything works now AFAICT. do you have the autoupdate set up?
  288. # [13:45] <annevk> foolip: yeah, via a push hook
  289. # [13:46] <annevk> I guess at some point I could look into having the splitter using the same source for the spec so I don't have two copies
  290. # [13:46] <annevk> Although Hixie seems to be building his own toolchain so maybe that'll just obsolete it
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  292. # [13:49] <annevk> mathiasbynens: jtcranmer: maybe instead of domainToASCII and such we should have new Domain() or some such
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  294. # [13:50] <foolip> annevk: to replace anolis, or just for splitting?
  295. # [13:50] <annevk> foolip: I think both
  296. # [13:51] <annevk> foolip: I want to switch to Bikeshed personally at some point (Tab's tool)
  297. # [13:51] <foolip> is that why recently when the spec loads it takes a second before the style is applied?
  298. # [13:51] <foolip> doing more with scripts?
  299. # [13:51] <annevk> foolip: I think that's Hixie experimenting with the style sheet, as far as I know the toolchain has not been changed
  300. # [13:51] <foolip> ok
  301. # [13:52] <annevk> foolip: no, I think the main idea was to have a faster version of what Anolis and the splitter are doing now
  302. # [13:53] <annevk> mathiasbynens: jtcranmer: it depends a bit as to what kind of things we're interested in exposing, TLDs, labels, effectiveTLDs, DNS queries?
  303. # [13:53] <annevk> I guess DNS might be bad for privacy, although maybe that's exposed through timing already
  304. # [13:57] <mathiasbynens> what do you mean by effective TLDs? would it just return the TLD for a given domain, or do something more clever based on https://www.publicsuffix.org/?
  305. # [13:58] <mathiasbynens> having those methods on URL (as it is now) seems more convenient in most cases i imagine
  306. # [13:59] <annevk> mathiasbynens: see https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25865 for effective TLD
  307. # [13:59] <annevk> mathiasbynens: yeah I guess I should try to avoid churn as well; we can always layer these statics on a lower-level primitive later
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  317. # [14:54] <annevk> It'd be kinda cool if IDL had knowledge of window / document objects / script setting objects
  318. # [14:55] <annevk> Instead of something accepting a DOMString, you could have "ToURL" that'd do the ScalarValueString dance, but also parsing relative to the script settings object and just hand you the URL where you write the rest of the algorithm
  319. # [14:55] <annevk> And throw a TypeError if the URL parser returns failure
  320. # [15:01] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
  321. # [15:10] <annevk> Domenic: ^^
  322. # [15:10] <annevk> Taking decisions away from specification authors seems like a good thing
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  339. # [16:14] <annevk> Hixie: maybe give a different box than "Note" for domintro?
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  346. # [16:31] <annevk> JakeA: why does https://slightlyoff.github.io/ServiceWorker/spec/service_worker/ now render without style sheet?
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  349. # [16:45] <annevk> JakeA: progress events seems like another case that'd be different between default() and fetch()
  350. # [16:48] <SamB> annevk: don't you have devtools you could use to find out what's preventing the stylesheet from loading ;-P
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  356. # [17:06] <JakeA> annevk: how so?
  357. # [17:06] <annevk> JakeA: no idea how XHR upload progress events should work otherwise
  358. # [17:07] <JakeA> Both fetch & default resolve after headers
  359. # [17:08] <annevk> JakeA: *upload*
  360. # [17:08] <annevk> JakeA: is the idea respondWith(event.default()) or just event.default() is the whole deal
  361. # [17:08] <annevk> JakeA: in the latter case, should it return anything?
  362. # [17:10] <JakeA> annevk: it's still passed to respondWith, so it can be used as a fallback to another thing
  363. # [17:10] <annevk> JakeA: so it's different from the default (not handling the event)
  364. # [17:10] <annevk> JakeA: bit confusing but okay
  365. # [17:11] <JakeA> annevk: see http://jakearchibald.com/2014/service-worker-first-draft/#recovering-from-failure
  366. # [17:11] <JakeA> annevk: I think event.default is a terrible API, that's why I keep trying to find ways not to have it :D
  367. # [17:12] <annevk> JakeA: https://github.com/slightlyoff/ServiceWorker/issues/242#issuecomment-44197133
  368. # [17:12] <annevk> JakeA: anyway, upload progress events would get lost without it
  369. # [17:13] <JakeA> annevk: if request.body is a stream, wouldn't upload progress be based on the reading of that stream?
  370. # [17:13] <JakeA> annevk: but yeah, if you consumed all of that stream in the SW, you'd get to 100% quickly
  371. # [17:14] <annevk> JakeA: no, upload progress events are about transmitted bytes
  372. # [17:14] <JakeA> But it would work fine with fetch()
  373. # [17:14] <annevk> JakeA: so e.g. if you have compression or some such that would matter
  374. # [17:14] <annevk> JakeA: so it's up to the network layer and not up to request.body
  375. # [17:14] <JakeA> annevk: hmm, need to look at the XHR spec more closely for that
  376. # [17:14] <annevk> JakeA: and it wouldn't work fine with fetch(), since you've lost context at that point
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  380. # [17:15] <annevk> (well, I guess you haven't since you're reading that stream... however, we don't have streams, let alone streams that span realms)
  381. # [17:16] <JakeA> annevk: can you add a ticket for that? (Sorry, bank holiday here so I'm not at laptop)
  382. # [17:16] <annevk> JakeA: for which bit?
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  384. # [17:17] <JakeA> annevk: handling progress events
  385. # [17:20] <annevk> JakeA: we could not have default() btw and just use a flag on the request object and keep track of magic request objects that way, but using a different method seems clearer
  386. # [17:20] <annevk> JakeA: https://github.com/slightlyoff/ServiceWorker/issues/289
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  389. # [17:25] <annevk> How does one get notified on gist.github.com activity?
  390. # [17:25] <JakeA> annevk: there's a watch button on repos
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  392. # [17:26] <annevk> JakeA: not on GitHubGist?
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  397. # [17:36] <JakeA> annevk: ah sorry, not reading properly
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  400. # [17:49] <annevk> SamB: any updates on https://github.com/whatwg/resources.whatwg.org/pull/1 ?
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  407. # [18:11] <SamB> annevk: hmm, perhaps I should look at fixing the bugs in rsvg/inkscape ...
  408. # [18:12] <SamB> or at least forwarding them to the respective upstreams
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  412. # [18:15] <SamB> <SamB> annevk: hmm, perhaps I should look at fixing the bugs in rsvg/inkscape ...
  413. # [18:15] <SamB> <SamB> or at least forwarding them to the respective upstreams
  414. # [18:15] <annevk> SamB: yeah saw that
  415. # [18:15] <SamB> wasn't sure
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  424. # [18:48] <annevk> cool, logo licensing sorted
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  435. # [19:43] <Krinkle> #omgomg Did we just land a specification for Element#closest in DOM? Like jQuery#closest a bit
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  508. # Session Close: Tue May 27 00:00:00 2014

The end :)