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# Session Start: Thu Apr 21 00:00:00 2016
# Session Ident: #whatwg
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# [00:39] <TabAtkins> JonathanNeal: Then yes.
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# [08:07] <@annevk> Anyone know a simple way to draw tree structures with SVG?
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# [08:17] <MikeSmith> annevk: google says http://fperucic.github.io/treant-js/
# [08:19] <MikeSmith> or http://jimblackler.net/treefun/index.html
# [08:22] <@annevk> I like that one from Jim, I wonder if the copyleft license poses an issue though
# [08:22] <MikeSmith> well if you are just using it to create diagrams the license doesn’t matter, right?
# [08:23] <MikeSmith> or you are wanting to embed something?
# [08:23] <@annevk> Yeah maybe that's right
# [08:24] <@annevk> No need for embedding, though I suppose there is a need for that project staying alive so we can create more diagrams as needed...
# [08:26] <MikeSmith> sure
# [08:27] <@annevk> What I want is to create similar graphics to those in Shadow DOM but with SVG I can edit and make accessible
# [08:28] <@annevk> And perhaps some extra graphics too to explain event dispatch and how shadow trees mess with that, etc.
# [08:29] <MikeSmith> I wonder if TabAtkins has diagrams in CSS specs he used something to create
# [08:30] <MikeSmith> I mean other than his railroad diagrams
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# [08:30] <MikeSmith> in general he seems to have a knack for diagrams
# [08:31] <MikeSmith> anyway, that interactive treefun tool seems pretty serviceable
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# [10:31] <Ms2ger> annevk, r? https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/2875
# [10:35] <@annevk> Ms2ger: merged
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# [12:15] <Neu> hello, why does noscript element contain markup as raw text node when scripting is enabled? What's the purpose of this?
# [12:17] <Neu> Why can't it just parse contents, create DOM nodes, but browser would hide this subtree
# [12:17] <@annevk> Neu: I suspect it's a browser-introduced hack from back in the day to prevent <img> and such to load
# [12:18] <Neu> hmm. yea, this makes sense
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# [12:25] <Neu> I'm reading https://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-html5-20121025/the-noscript-element.html : "The noscript element must contain only link, style, and meta elements." Does this mean I must drop all other tags? E.g. firefox for this case (simplified) <head><noscript><strong>HEAD</strong></noscript> migrates <strong> into body.
# [12:26] <@annevk> Neu: I recommend reading https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/scripting.html#the-noscript-element
# [12:27] <@annevk> Neu: what is allowed as contents depends on the context
# [12:27] <@annevk> Neu: if you place <noscript> inside <head>, you can only allow elements similar to what <head> allows
# [12:27] <@annevk> Neu: if you place <noscript> inside <body>, similar
# [12:27] <Neu> sure
# [12:27] <Neu> the context is <head>
# [12:27] <@annevk> Then you can't use <strong>
# [12:28] <@annevk> Or text
# [12:28] <Neu> and firefox behaves wrong in this case?
# [12:29] <zcorpan> no. how it parses depends on whether script is enabled (per spec)
# [12:30] <Neu> let me show. http://i.imgur.com/1LbApEp.png
# [12:31] <zcorpan> Neu: do you have script disabled?
# [12:31] <Neu> scripting is disabled, first <strong> was in head
# [12:31] <Neu> yes
# [12:31] <zcorpan> that's per spec
# [12:31] <Neu> I can see HEADBODY
# [12:32] <zcorpan> the <strong> closes noscript and opens body
# [12:32] <zcorpan> closes noscript and head and opens body
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# [12:33] <zcorpan> https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/syntax.html#parsing-main-inheadnoscript
# [12:34] <zcorpan> hmm wonder if <head><noscript></p> is a spec bug
# [12:34] <Neu> zcorpan: you're right, added <styles> everywhere, and really, first <strong> just finished the <head>
# [12:37] <zcorpan> (no </p> is ignored until body is opened...)
# [12:37] <Neu> is there any test suite except one from html5lib? (https://github.com/html5lib/html5lib-tests )
# [12:49] <jgraham_> That's the best parser testsuite
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# [13:15] <zcorpan> i've bikeshedded https://quirks.spec.whatwg.org/ \o/
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# [13:27] <@annevk> zcorpan: nice
# [13:28] <@annevk> zcorpan: README should list code of conduct
# [13:28] <zcorpan> annevk: yeah, will fix that
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# [13:42] <@annevk> zcorpan: ah, I had already filed an issue
# [13:42] <@annevk> zcorpan: forgot about that
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# [14:37] <zcorpan> Domenic: can you test http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?saved=4085 in Edge?
# [14:38] <zcorpan> (or someone else)
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# [15:03] <zcorpan> i have a result (it fills the viewport)
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# [15:31] <jochen__> does somebody know the right magic spec: line for bikeshed to reference css fonts?
# [15:32] <Ms2ger> zcorpan / TabAtkins: is element.closest(":has(> :scope)") supposed to work?
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# [15:38] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: i don't know
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# [16:38] <@annevk> I wish I had access to more folks that understand event dispatch as well as smaug... Anyone want to volunteer?
# [16:38] * @annevk wants feedback on https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/issues/485#issuecomment-212938463
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# [18:02] <TabAtkins> Ms2ger: Yes, it should - DOM sends the appropriate arguments to the abstract op in its definition.
# [18:03] <Ms2ger> So the weird half-selector syntax ended up existing? :(
# [18:04] <TabAtkins> Yeah, relative selectors are really useful for cases like :has(), and .query() off of an element.
# [18:05] <TabAtkins> Oh, wait tho.
# [18:06] <TabAtkins> :has() lays claim to :scope in a way that conflicts with .closest(), so that won't match anything.
# [18:06] <TabAtkins> (It's asking for an element which has itself as its own child.)
# [18:08] <TabAtkins> MikeSmith: I don't have anything to generate tree diagrams, no. dot isn't too hard to mess with, tho, and can output SVG.
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# [18:12] <TabAtkins> zcorpan: I put Quirks in Shepherd.
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# [18:16] <Ms2ger> TabAtkins, yeah, was wondering about throwing rather than whether it matched anything
# [18:16] <TabAtkins> It shouldn't throw per spec, definitely.
# [18:16] <TabAtkins> It's a valid, if unfortunately nonsensical, selector.
# [18:16] <TabAtkins> (The clashing :scope pseudo is a problem I recognized years ago but don't have a good idea to fix.)
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# [18:17] <Ms2ger> Bwuh
# [18:17] <Ms2ger> SimonSapin, want to file an issue to support :scope in Servo?
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# [18:30] <nox> I think I did that already.
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# [18:31] <nox> Well, kind of. https://github.com/servo/servo/issues/7598
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# [19:21] <Domenic> TabAtkins: do you have time to work on https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/issues/468#issuecomment-207622151 this week? Not sure where you are with all the shadow DOM stuff.
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# [19:23] <TabAtkins> Yeah, I think I do. I finished the CSS Shadow DOM stuff yesterday, it's up in the Scoping spec now.
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# [19:25] <Domenic> Awesome
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# [19:25] <Domenic> I think it would probably be best if you took the lead on defining the primitive needed? Once that's done the actual HTML PR to hook it up to a define() option is pretty simple...
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# [19:33] <@annevk> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=28326 I guess feedback from Mozilla was not needed...
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# [19:42] <Domenic> I don't understand that bug
# [19:43] <Domenic> How did they remove isindex parsing? I don't see any commits in w3c/html
# [19:43] <Domenic> Was it part of the initial import?
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# [19:45] <Domenic> It's just wrong
# [19:45] <@annevk> I guess so
# [19:46] <@annevk> It's very wrong
# [19:46] <@annevk> Oh, you pointed out that they didn't remove it
# [19:46] <Domenic> yeah
# [19:46] <@annevk> sigh
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# [19:51] <Domenic> Is there a mozilla bug filed
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# [19:52] <gsnedders> is there any way to see whether someone is subscribed to a given W3C mailing list?
# [19:52] * gsnedders assumes not
# [19:53] <@annevk> Domenic: I don't think so
# [19:53] <@annevk> gsnedders: yeah Member-only
# [19:54] <Domenic> OK let's open a whatwg/html bug for it and then open Mozilla and WebKit bugs
# [19:54] <Domenic> I'll do so
# [19:55] <@annevk> gsnedders: https://www.w3.org/Member/Mail/AuditForm
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# [20:04] <smaug____> philipj: ping
# [20:05] <philipj> smaug____: ping
# [20:05] <philipj> pong even
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# [20:05] <smaug____> philipj: do you have some way to check if "Animate" is used often in web pages?
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# [20:06] <smaug____> this is about the Animation spec and blink doesn't yet have the interface without [NoInterfaceObject], but we're thinking to follow the spec in Gecko
# [20:06] <smaug____> (normal interface and Constructor)
# [20:07] <philipj> smaug____: what's the interface name?
# [20:07] <smaug____> Animation
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# [20:08] <philipj> and you're wondering if there's a risk in having that on the global object I guess?
# [20:09] <smaug____> right
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# [20:18] <gsnedders> annevk: thx for that link; was assuming it would be MO
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# [20:19] <@annevk> gsnedders: that link is not MO?
# [20:19] <@annevk> gsnedders: I think it is
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# [20:20] <gsnedders> annevk: I mean I was assuming it would be MO if it existed
# [20:20] <@annevk> oh doh
# [20:21] <gsnedders> (I'm nowadays an Invited Expert with Member-Only Access according to what my account says, so that's fine by me)
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# [21:03] <philipj> smaug____: so what you can do is to search the httparchive for that string, but to be useful you'd want to search on JS I guess. Using BigQuery is supposedly the easiest way to do it, but I've never actually used that. Rick Byers could probably help you get started, though.
# [21:04] <smaug____> rbyers: ^
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# [21:27] <jsbell> smaug____: See https://www.igvita.com/2013/06/20/http-archive-bigquery-web-performance-answers/ for general overview...
# [21:29] <jsbell> smaug____: And a sample query for JS content: https://gist.github.com/inexorabletash/471d674259cb96f0f9ca363b7e533c70
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# [21:33] <rbyers> Smaug: also https://docs.google.com/a/chromium.org/document/d/1cpjWFoXBiuFYI4zb9I7wHs7uYZ0ntbOgLwH-mgqXdEM/edit?usp=drive_web
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# [21:43] <laughinghan> thanks to discussion with smaug____, I think I've found a good reason to believe that fixing :target selectors to update upon history.pushState() is unlikely to break any webapps
# [21:43] <smaug____> thanks
# [21:44] <laughinghan> which is that currently after pushState, though :target selectors aren't updated, if you then hit Back and then Fwd, the :target rules will apply
# [21:44] <laughinghan> http://output.jsbin.com/quludi
# [21:44] <smaug____> interesting
# [21:45] <smaug____> laughinghan: what about hashchange event?
# [21:45] <laughinghan> so the only way a webapp could be broken by the change that wasn't already broken by Back+Fwd is if they had a broken :target rule that was obscured by hysteresis due to popstate/hashchange event handlers
# [21:46] <smaug____> laughinghan: so in that testcase dispatch hashchange when?
# [21:46] <laughinghan> smaug____: oh, your idea that pushState() should also dispatch hashchange?
# [21:46] <laughinghan> you know I'm not sold on that
# [21:46] <laughinghan> to be honest
# [21:46] <laughinghan> but if we're gonna try to be consistent with something
# [21:47] <smaug____> well, if :target is updated...
# [21:47] <laughinghan> I think we should be consistent with hitting the Fwd button
# [21:47] <smaug____> consistency is important
# [21:47] <laughinghan> just like Fwd updates the :target, it fires hashchange at a certain time
# [21:47] <laughinghan> I think it fires hashchange after window.location and history.state has been updated
# [21:48] <laughinghan> therefore, pushState should fire hashchange after window.location and history.state have been updated
# [21:48] <laughinghan> smaug____: is that what you mean by "dispatch hashchange when?"
# [21:49] <smaug____> that sounds about right
# [21:51] <laughinghan> huh
# [21:52] <laughinghan> unlike popstate, hashchange fires after scroll has been restored
# [21:52] <laughinghan> http://output.jsbin.com/qeloye
# [21:52] <laughinghan> er, that test case needs some explanation
# [21:52] <laughinghan> basically in the console a nonzero number is logged
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# [22:19] <TabAtkins> Anyone remember who runs the @CSSCommits bot?
# [22:19] <TabAtkins> (It's got some bizarre bug at the moment.)
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# [22:34] <Domenic> mathiasbynens I believe
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# [23:26] <smaug____> So https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/forms.html#the-select-element "Upon this option element being picked (either through a click...." ... "before the relevant user interaction event is queued (e.g. before the click event)"
# [23:26] <smaug____> doesn't quite make sense to me
# [23:26] <smaug____> if we're picking based on click, that click sure has been queued already
# [23:26] <smaug____> and click event isn't something to queue
# [23:27] <smaug____> it is dispatched based on mousedown/up usually
# [23:27] * smaug____ files a bug
# [23:27] <smaug____> poor editors
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# [23:54] <smaug____> anyone recall if firing "input" for <select> was added recently
# [23:54] <smaug____> I think it is
# [23:54] <smaug____> but can't find the bug
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# [23:55] <smaug____> github's search is really horrible :/
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# Session Close: Fri Apr 22 00:00:00 2016
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